Hardbopjazz Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yesterday I sent an email to the webmaster for George Coleman's web site. I was wondering why his itinerary tab has been blank for nearly the past 10 months. The reply I received was George is in retirement. I did see George Coleman live in November of 2011. If he is retired, why do a week's engagement at a club? When it's in your blood I wonder if you can ever stop playing? Horace Silver when I saw him live in 2004, said this would be his last performance and that he was going to retire and do other things instead of music. I think retiring led to Silver's Alzheimer's disease. That's just my speculation. Basie retired and ended up needing a wheel chair to get around in his last few years. I did manage to see Basie and his orchestra when he came out of retirement in 1982. The band played the New Savoy Ball Room in Harlem. Basie rode out on his motorized wheel chair and slide himself over onto the piano seat. Basie said to the audience retiring was the worst decision he made. I recall a interview with J.J.Johnson on WKCR from the early 90s. Johnson said he had officially retired from traveling and performing. The first time he traveled after retiring, his wife and him were waiting for their luggage, after they grabbed their bags, his wife asked what are you waiting for still? He told her, my trombone. It still isn't here yet. She told him, you didn't take your trombone. I can't think of any musician that retired and didn't pick up his instrument at some point and go out and play. I am hoping it is the same with George Coleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnymax Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yesterday I sent an email to the webmaster for George Coleman's web site. I was wondering why his itinerary tab has been blank for nearly the past 10 months. The reply I received was George is in retirement. I did see George Coleman live in November of 2011. If he is retired, why do a week's engagement at a club? When it's in your blood I wonder if you can ever stop playing? Horace Silver when I saw him live in 2004, said this would be his last performance and that he was going to retire and do other things instead of music. I think retiring led to Silver's Alzheimer's disease. That's just my speculation. Basie retired and ended up needing a wheel chair to get around in his last few years. I did manage to see Basie and his orchestra when he came out of retirement in 1982. The band played the New Savoy Ball Room in Harlem. Basie rode out on his motorized wheel chair and slide himself over onto the piano seat. Basie said to the audience retiring was the worst decision he made. I recall a interview with J.J.Johnson on WKCR from the early 90s. Johnson said he had officially retired from traveling and performing. The first time he traveled after retiring, his wife and him were waiting for their luggage, after they grabbed their bags, his wife asked what are you waiting for still? He told her, my trombone. It still isn't here yet. She told him, you didn't take your trombone. I can't think of any musician that retired and didn't pick up his instrument at some point and go out and play. I am hoping it is the same with George Coleman. I detect a hint of romanticism in your post, i.e. jazz musicians can't retire because of their love for the road. Unfortunately, I suspect the reason behind the decision to put off retirement is financial for most musicians. They simply can't afford to stop because they didn't earn a lot and couldn't save enough for their later years. They don't have pensions and many don't have adequate healthcare insurance, if at all. Their rent and other costs are going up at a much higher rate than their pay. Sure, there are cases where it's a "play or die" ethic, but I think for too many jazz musicians it's "play or starve". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yesterday I sent an email to the webmaster for George Coleman's web site. I was wondering why his itinerary tab has been blank for nearly the past 10 months. The reply I received was George is in retirement. I did see George Coleman live in November of 2011. If he is retired, why do a week's engagement at a club? When it's in your blood I wonder if you can ever stop playing? Horace Silver when I saw him live in 2004, said this would be his last performance and that he was going to retire and do other things instead of music. I think retiring led to Silver's Alzheimer's disease. That's just my speculation. Basie retired and ended up needing a wheel chair to get around in his last few years. I did manage to see Basie and his orchestra when he came out of retirement in 1982. The band played the New Savoy Ball Room in Harlem. Basie rode out on his motorized wheel chair and slide himself over onto the piano seat. Basie said to the audience retiring was the worst decision he made. I recall a interview with J.J.Johnson on WKCR from the early 90s. Johnson said he had officially retired from traveling and performing. The first time he traveled after retiring, his wife and him were waiting for their luggage, after they grabbed their bags, his wife asked what are you waiting for still? He told her, my trombone. It still isn't here yet. She told him, you didn't take your trombone. I can't think of any musician that retired and didn't pick up his instrument at some point and go out and play. I am hoping it is the same with George Coleman. I detect a hint of romanticism in your post, i.e. jazz musicians can't retire because of their love for the road. Unfortunately, I suspect the reason behind the decision to put off retirement is financial for most musicians. They simply can't afford to stop because they didn't earn a lot and couldn't save enough for their later years. They don't have pensions and many don't have adequate healthcare insurance, if at all. Their rent and other costs are going up at a much higher rate than their pay. Sure, there are cases where it's a "play or die" ethic, but I think for too many jazz musicians it's "play or starve". I'm sure you're right. That's why I'm pleased to see an increasing number of jazz musicians getting teaching posts with universities and colleges, jobs which have pension benefits attached and therefore permit a period of retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcrazy1984 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I know that Benny Carter at a point late in his life stopped performing (playing his saxophone) for the public. He probably still did interviews, conducted, arranged for recording sessions. But I do know he put down his horn for good. Also, not a jazz musician, but Marcel Mule (saxophone prof. at the Paris Cons.) stopped playing the saxophone after his retirement from the Conservatory. He said that was the end of a chapter in his life, and from people that knew him, he was happy about it. I know if I go on a vacation after a few days, I sure miss my horn!!! I can see that if a player spent 30 years on the road, that they would want to retire from the road. But as far as putting the horn down, that would be hard to understand. Then again, I will never get to the playing level of the giants of jazz, and I know that as we age, our musical skill diminishes. Whether it be technical aspects of playing or creativity....there is a peak and I am sure that knowing that the playing isn't what it used to be would be discouraging. I know, for example, that Snooky Young played up till he passed away, but his playing diminished due to hearing loss and age. Just my two cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Henry Grimes kind of retired from music scene and changed professions all together for 30 years. Now he's back. But that's the reverse of what I was asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 George Coleman is 76 years old. I hope I am long retired by the time I'm 76! Everyone should get the chance to kick back their feet a bit before they die. As for missing being on the road... In my case, being on the road got old. I did it for 3 years and by the end, I was miserable. I would never want another job that put me on the road all the time. I drank too much, ate too much and generally became a slug. I eventually lost the 45 pounds I put on during those 3 years but it was tough. Horace Silver's retirement caused his Alzheimer's? I've never heard of a study showing this. Also, when I talked to Horace during his last visit to Boston, he seemed a bit off. He signed a picture I brought with me and added the wrong date. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I have to wonder if he wasn't already starting to exhibit early warning signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfcrazy1984 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) George Coleman is 76 years old. I hope I am long retired by the time I'm 76! Everyone should get the chance to kick back their feet a bit before they die. As for missing being on the road... In my case, being on the road got old. I did it for 3 years and by the end, I was miserable. I would never want another job that put me on the road all the time. I drank too much, ate too much and generally became a slug. I eventually lost the 45 pounds I put on during those 3 years but it was tough. Horace Silver's retirement caused his Alzheimer's? I've never heard of a study showing this. Also, when I talked to Horace during his last visit to Boston, he seemed a bit off. He signed a picture I brought with me and added the wrong date. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I have to wonder if he wasn't already starting to exhibit early warning signs. I read that one of Ellington's players in the 1940s left the band and slept for a year! I know it's an exaggeration, but still. I am tired after a week on the road, I can't imagine 3 years! Edited January 10, 2012 by Jazz Nut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 George Coleman is 76 years old. I hope I am long retired by the time I'm 76! Everyone should get the chance to kick back their feet a bit before they die. Horace Silver's retirement caused his Alzheimer's? I've never heard of a study showing this. Also, when I talked to Horace during his last visit to Boston, he seemed a bit off. He signed a picture I brought with me and added the wrong date. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I have to wonder if he wasn't already starting to exhibit early warning signs. That was just my unfounded opinion. If you don't keep the mind active, it will soften up on you. I do wish George many happy years to come whether retired or actively performing. What I was trying to convey was this, the webmaster said there are no shows listed because George has retired. But he did play a week in NYC in late November. I guess it is hard to completely hang up performing. The ovation from the audience must keep you coming back for more, as well as the money to support yourself. Anyone at 76 should be able to explore other desires in their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 "Playing music" and playing gigs are quite often two different things in terms of pleasure and satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm glad that George Coleman comes out of his retirement every now and then. George Coleman is the guest artist this Friday at Smoke. friday february 17 featured artist "A Tadd Dameron Birthday Celebration" featuring Richard Wyands & Joe Farnsworth PLUS special guest GEORGE COLEMAN George Coleman (tenor sax) • Richard Wyands (piano) • John Webber (bass) • Joe Farnsworth (drums) $35 music charge / sets @ 8 (dinner set), 10, 11:30pm (dinner optional) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin V Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm glad that George Coleman comes out of his retirement every now and then. George Coleman is the guest artist this Friday at Smoke. friday february 17 featured artist "A Tadd Dameron Birthday Celebration" featuring Richard Wyands & Joe Farnsworth PLUS special guest GEORGE COLEMAN George Coleman (tenor sax) • Richard Wyands (piano) • John Webber (bass) • Joe Farnsworth (drums) $35 music charge / sets @ 8 (dinner set), 10, 11:30pm (dinner optional) That is going to be a great concert. I'd love to be able to attend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) George Coleman is 76 years old. I hope I am long retired by the time I'm 76! Everyone should get the chance to kick back their feet a bit before they die. As for missing being on the road... In my case, being on the road got old. I did it for 3 years and by the end, I was miserable. I would never want another job that put me on the road all the time. I drank too much, ate too much and generally became a slug. I eventually lost the 45 pounds I put on during those 3 years but it was tough. Horace Silver's retirement caused his Alzheimer's? I've never heard of a study showing this. Also, when I talked to Horace during his last visit to Boston, he seemed a bit off. He signed a picture I brought with me and added the wrong date. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I have to wonder if he wasn't already starting to exhibit early warning signs. I read that one of Ellington's players in the 1940s left the band and slept for a year! I know it's an exaggeration, but still. I am tired after a week on the road, I can't imagine 3 years! When Lawrence Brown got close to 65, he retired from the Ellington band (around 1970 or '71, I believe), went home, put his trombone behind his sofa, and apparently never played it again. Edited February 15, 2012 by John Tapscott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) George Coleman is 76 years old. I hope I am long retired by the time I'm 76! Everyone should get the chance to kick back their feet a bit before they die. As for missing being on the road... In my case, being on the road got old. I did it for 3 years and by the end, I was miserable. I would never want another job that put me on the road all the time. I drank too much, ate too much and generally became a slug. I eventually lost the 45 pounds I put on during those 3 years but it was tough. Horace Silver's retirement caused his Alzheimer's? I've never heard of a study showing this. Also, when I talked to Horace during his last visit to Boston, he seemed a bit off. He signed a picture I brought with me and added the wrong date. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I have to wonder if he wasn't already starting to exhibit early warning signs. I read that one of Ellington's players in the 1940s left the band and slept for a year! I know it's an exaggeration, but still. I am tired after a week on the road, I can't imagine 3 years! When Lawrence Brown got close to 65, he retired from the Ellington band (around 1970 or '71, I believe), went home, put his trombone behind his sofa, and apparently never played it again. Lawrence Brown's very lengthy period of employment with Ellington no doubt put him in the position financially to do that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Brown_(musician) When I saw Shorty Rogers with the British National Youth Jazz Orchestra in 1982, it was said that he'd been persuaded to come out of retirement spent largely on his yacht in California. His Wikipedia entry suggests that music commissions, other than jazz, had been continuing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorty_Rogers Edited February 15, 2012 by BillF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlitweiler Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Do professional hack writers ever really retire? (I haven't.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I plan on playing and composing until I can't. It's the only thing I actually like to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Some of them lie down more frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm glad that George Coleman comes out of his retirement every now and then. George Coleman is the guest artist this Friday at Smoke. friday february 17 featured artist "A Tadd Dameron Birthday Celebration" featuring Richard Wyands & Joe Farnsworth PLUS special guest GEORGE COLEMAN George Coleman (tenor sax) • Richard Wyands (piano) • John Webber (bass) • Joe Farnsworth (drums) $35 music charge / sets @ 8 (dinner set), 10, 11:30pm (dinner optional) Talk about a 'win/win' for George. He gets to have a relaxing retirement and do the occasional gig to keep his hand in. A very wise man indeed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 (edited) This past Saturday, I saw Gato Barbieri at The Regattabar in Cambridge, MA. Gato should be retired. He is clearly in fading health - barely able to walk (almost fell down taking one step after his helper let him go), can't stand for very long (played the entire set from a chair, making it nearly impossible for anyone to see him) and just in general looking like a very old man (he's 78 or 80 depending on the web source). I felt like I was seeing my grandfather up there just before he died. But most importantly, he's just not capable of playing at a high enough standard any more. He can't hold a note without an off pitch waver. It was not a pleasant sound. The people we sat with were very disappointed. It was hard not to be. If it wasn't for a pretty decent backing band, it would have been even worse. It was sad, really. Afterward, I went up to talk to him and maybe get an autograph and he was yelling at a woman (wife?) to get him off the stage because he was tired. Actually , he was yelling at her that he was "too tired" to stand there any more. The crowd, who up until this point were standing around thanking him for the show and shaking his hand, heard his shouts and silently parted. There was a hush as he shuffled off. The poor guy. I truly felt bad for him. It seemed like he didn't even want to be there. Actually, somebody uploaded a video from the show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVswQBufptk Edited April 29, 2013 by Kevin Bresnahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 Joe Maneri retired from playing in 2005 at 78, I believe I think George Coleman is playing right about now at the Jazz Standard Don Van Vliet famously quit music in 1982I saw Benny Carter when he was 90 and he was pretty damn great. As was Al Grey who was in the band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Stan Tracey's still playing regularly at 86. Long may it continue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgcim Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Eddie Bert played up to the end, and he passed at 90. He did a lot of union work (record dates) that gave him a nice pension, so it wasn't for the money. It's what he DID... He had gotten so weak, they replaced him on one steady gig I used to do with him, because the sound was too weak. One bass player with a good pension from his day gig, kept playing gigs in his late 80s, even though he had heart failure, arthritis and CTS. His wife would carry his equipment when no one could see him, and then he'd make like he carried it when he was in sight. He got so frustrated with his hands, he got surgery for the CTS without telling his heart doctor. He got a stroke the next day that paralyzed his entire right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 30, 2013 Report Share Posted April 30, 2013 Johnny 'Hammond' Smith retired in the late 70s, mainly played with property investments, which seem to have enabled him to retire early. But he had a few private students and took the occasional gig. See here MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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