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It was more of a general comment.  Faulkner struggles with race in a way that I think will make him still relevant in 50 or 100 years.  Arguably Fitzgerald has interesting things to say about social climbing, elite society and "looking in" that will matter more and more as the class divide deepens in North America.   

I personally don't think what Hemingway has to say about being a man are that interesting.  Obviously that is a gross simplification of what he was up to, but I think with today's trends he will be seen as less relevant, but he will still speak to some.  I'm not calling for banning him, by any means.

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38 minutes ago, ejp626 said:

It was more of a general comment.  Faulkner struggles with race in a way that I think will make him still relevant in 50 or 100 years.  Arguably Fitzgerald has interesting things to say about social climbing, elite society and "looking in" that will matter more and more as the class divide deepens in North America.   

I personally don't think what Hemingway has to say about being a man are that interesting.  Obviously that is a gross simplification of what he was up to, but I think with today's trends he will be seen as less relevant, but he will still speak to some.  I'm not calling for banning him, by any means.

Looking away from the content of Hemingway's writing, was he not remarkable for the way he wrote - his style?

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I read the To Have and Have Not last year and it’s a terrific book. I don’t believe in judging a different time or milieu by today’s standards although I’m sure that will happen and by today’s standards they are objectionable. If you want to look at Fitzgerald his views about Jews (although perhaps not as blatant as Hemingway’s) were not good either but to me this was part of telling the story.

I’m glad you’re not calling for banning Hemingway although I wasn’t aware you were so powerful. 

20 hours ago, ejp626 said:

I don't think time will be very kind with Hemingway, as so many of his characters embody toxic masculinity.

Before making such a conclusion which, frankly, isn’t worth much comment, I suggest you read the following: A Death in the Afternoon

Edited by Brad
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51 minutes ago, Brad said:

I read the To Have and Have Not last year and it’s a terrific book. I don’t believe in judging a different time or milieu by today’s standards although I’m sure that will happen and by today’s standards they are objectionable. If you want to look at Fitzgerald his views about Jews (although perhaps not as blatant as Hemingway’s) were not good either but to me this was part of telling the story.

I’m glad you’re not calling for banning Hemingway although I wasn’t aware you were so powerful. 

Before making such a conclusion which, frankly, isn’t worth much comment, I suggest you read the following: A Death in the Afternoon

Interesting read.

I think it's quite easy to read Wolff alluding to something akin to the 'toxic masculinity' that ejp626 mentions here (apologies for the font size, posting from my phone)

"In his later work, especially in the novels, we can see Hemingway the writer sometimes yielding to the persona he developed, the persona we boys aspired to: tough, taciturn, knowing, self-sufficient, superior. This could bleed into the work, painting his leading men in caricature."

Edited by mjazzg
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15 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Interesting read.

I think it's quite easy to read Wolff alluding to something akin to the 'toxic masculinity' that ejp626 mentions here (apologies for the font size, posting from my phone)

"In his later work, especially in the novels, we can see Hemingway the writer sometimes yielding to the persona he developed, the persona we boys aspired to: tough, taciturn, knowing, self-sufficient, superior. This could bleed into the work, painting his leading men in caricature."

That was the Hemingway persona: the hard boiled tough man, a men among men. Obviously, that doesn’t fly today and you wouldn’t write that way today. It’s a different age and that’s my point about interpreting writing from 70 to 80 years ago by today’s standards.

Wolff also finished the paragraph you cited by saying the following:

“But in the stories you find almost nothing of that. Indeed, I am struck most forcefully by their humanity, their feeling for human fragility.”

That’s why Hemingway will endure.

Public TV is doing a Ken Burns program on Hemingway. It will be interesting to see how they treat him. 

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The OCCAM Ocean Issue, focuses on the radical musical eco-system of French composer Éliane Radigue’s OCCAM Ocean project. In a first for the publication, this issue is built solely around interviews with the performers that have collaborated with Radigue to produce this body of work over the last decade. Contributors include Charles Curtis, Carol Robinson, Rhodri Davies, Catherine Lamb, Julia Eckhardt, Silvia Tarozzi, Dafne Vicente-Sandoval, Laetitia Sonami, and Frédéric Blondy. All interviews were conducted by SA’s editor, Nate Wooley, also a performer of Radigue’s music. The issue features an opening invocation from Radigue herself, followed by writing on the history and practice of the OCCAM pieces, interviews, and a concluding essay by Wooley on his own experience performing OCCAM X. This special issue concludes with the last of a three-part series of “exquisite corpse” compositions, written especially for SA by inti figgis-vezueta in response to the preceding work of Moor Mother and Amirtha Kidambi. 

This issue also comes with a special one-of-a-kind pull-out poster detailing the entire OCCAM Ocean composition in all of its interconnected glory. Designed by Remake Designs, this is a unique graphic perspective on the human web of collaboration that Radigue has created.  Pre-orders of SA26 come with a free download of Sound American's False Start conversation with Eliane and clarinetist Carol Robinson.

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The Sheltering Sky - Wikipedia

Rereading this fine novel I discovered and enjoyed in the early 80s. When Bertolucci made it into a film by the late 80s, I had a project of interviewing Paul Bowles in Tangiers, where he lived. It would have been a fine project which would have sold well to lifestyle or fashion magazines, like Elle or Vogue, or papers. But I never did it. But my infatuation with Bowles grew to such a degree I own nearly everything he has ever written, and by the beginning of the 90s, shortly after his death I think, I also had a biography of him brought over from NY. The movie, by the way, is very good, with John Malkovich in the leading role. I have been in Morocco and the Sahara and can assure it. If you ever get the chance to see it, don't miss it.

A scene from that movie:

 

Get the Tangier Traveler Look of The Sheltering Sky — Vogue | Vogue

I consider Bowles a protobeat.

Edited by Bluesnik
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