100 R&B albums reissued on CD by Atlantic Japan

[J.A.W.]

100 R&B albums reissued on CD by Atlantic Japan

[Big Beat Steve]

O.K., so for the most part this "R&B" term is to be understood the way it was used in U.S. charts through the decades to describe "popular Afro-American music", regardless of the actual style of music, i.e. simnply "SOUL" or even "Funk".

A not so unimportant distinction to those who specifically go for "R&B" in the stricter sense sense of the word.

Nice series, though, for collectors of this ty<pe of music.

[J.A.W.]

O.K., so for the most part this "R&B" term is to be understood the way it was used in U.S. charts through the decades to describe "popular Afro-American music", regardless of the actual style of music, i.e. simnply "SOUL" or even "Funk".

A not so unimportant distinction to those who specifically go for "R&B" in the stricter sense sense of the word.

I totally agree. I just quoted the site I linked to: "ATLANTIC R&B BEST COLLECTION 1000" For me, the "real thing" is the R&B from the late 1930s to the late 1950s.

Edited September 18, 2012 by J.A.W.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I never knew this was the original sleeve of Ray Charles' 'Yes indeed' - I thought it was the French version when I saw it, because it was in a very similar style to the French version of 'Ray Charles at Newport'.

There are a few goodies in this lot. Let me recommend the Lou JOhnson to anyone who hasn't heard it. I could do with the Chuck Willis, too. And OF COURSE, the two classic Mar-Keys albums.

MG

[paul secor]

I already have most of what interests me (in some form or other) on this list, but there are a couple of possibilities. Thanks for posting the link, Hans.

[Noj]

Some gems in there, for sure.

[Pete C]

I hate that the term R&B has been co-opted for contemporary black pop music. We now have to say the full "rhythm and blues" to avoid confusion. I think I'd probably date the classic R&B period as roughly from Louis Jordan's Tympani Five recordings to the emergence of James Brown & Sam Cooke, when we can start talking about "soul music."

[J.A.W.]

I hate that the term R&B has been co-opted for contemporary black pop music. We now have to say the full "rhythm and blues" to avoid confusion. I think I'd probably date the classic R&B period as roughly from Louis Jordan's Tympani Five recordings to the emergence of James Brown & Sam Cooke, when we can start talking about "soul music."

As I said earlier I totally agree. When I posted this point of view on another music board, I was thoroughly flamed and roasted...

[JSngry]

I hate that the term R&B has been co-opted for contemporary black pop music.

Just wondering, why?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Well, Soul Music became the official designation of the Billboard R&B singles charts in 1969, then it was called Black singles in 1982. It's back to R&B now, I think.

It was the 'Harlem hit parade' from '42-'45, then the Race chart until 1949, when Jerry Wexler (then a journalist at Billboard) invented the term Rhythm & Blues.

Billboard was never a leader in the descriptions of contemporary black music, always a follower (and this is a surprise?).

OK, Soul music was different from R&B. It had, more and more from the early days of Clyde McPhatter with Billy Ward and the Dominos, a gospel feel to it. Funk was also different from Soul, in its reliance on the bass carrying the rhythmn and setting the drummer free (as had happened years before with Bebop). Then Disco was different again in ways we need not discuss Smooth Soul also we need not discuss, but that was also different.

But the position was never really clear when you listen to a lot of the music. What all of it had in common was a jazz root, originating from big band swing, then influenced by Soul Jazz and never really lost until Hip Hop took over pretty well everything (and even then, a lot of jazz samples were used but in a very different way). So what there's been is a music with some common elements and some different elements coming in at different times (mostly as a result of the work of musicians who played jazz). If it's important to place a person's work historically and stylistically - as it sometimes is - just as it's inadequate to try to differentiate between Hawk and Trane by using the ubrella term 'Jazz', so it's inadequate to differentiate between Louis Jordan and Anita Baker by using the umbrella term 'R&B'. But just as Jazz does have merit as an umbrella term, so does R&B.

MG

[Pete C]

Just wondering, why?

Because R&B had a meaning for many years that has nothing to do with the music the term is now being used to describe. It seems to have come out of left field by the industry.

So what do we now call artists who play classic rhythm and blues style like, say, Roomful of Blues?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Pete C

[Big Beat Steve]

As I said earlier I totally agree. When I posted this point of view on another music board, I was thoroughly flamed and roasted...

May I offer a huuuge pail of water to cool you down, and a tube of ointment to treat the burn marks?

Because you ARE right.

I hate that the term R&B has been co-opted for contemporary black pop music.

Just wondering, why?

a) For the very same reason that IMHO it is a huge abomination use the term "rock and roll" for anything past the very early Beatles period (when they still performed rock'n'roll tunes (covers) and before the actual beat music set on. The "Rock" stopped rolling before the Beatles came along and when teen kids like Avalon, Vinton, Rydell etc. took over. Point. What came after was (and is) just plain "rock" (in all its facets).

a) Why not call a spade a spade? There ARE connotations with the REAL term of R&B as it developed from the 40s onwards, and I don't think anybody has to be afraid of terms such as "soul" or "funk" (or "hip hop" etc.) to describe specific styles of black music. So why not be precise and to the point? Again, why not call a spade a spade? After all there ARE more recent acts in the wider blues field that would merit the R&B "style tag" so why make it unnecessarily blurred by making it "mean anything (black)"?

Not a case of pigeonholing, just a case of being at least relatively precise in what you are talking about. Especially since the vocabulary to differentiate is there.

Just my 2c

[Big Beat Steve]

So what do we now call artists who play classic rhythm and blues style like, say, Roomful of Blues?

Just call them R&B. After all they carry on the tradition and make it evolve to some degree. Like I said in my above post there are relatively recent acts that would really come under the R&B (despite all the evolutions they have gone thoprugh). Duke Robillard would be another one IMO. And no doubt there are many more.

So is there any reason to be more generic than you have to in describing styles of music?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

So what do we now call artists who play classic rhythm and blues style like, say, Roomful of Blues?

Just call them R&B. After all they carry on the tradition and make it evolve to some degree. Like I said in my above post there are relatively recent acts that would really come under the R&B (despite all the evolutions they have gone thoprugh). Duke Robillard would be another one IMO. And no doubt there are many more.

Root Doctor too. And Bernard Purdie & the Hudson River Rats. But I think Jim calls Root Doctor a blues band.

So is there any reason to be more generic than you have to in describing styles of music?

I agree with you, but it depends on the circumstances of the conversation/thread.

MG

[Dan Gould]

What I've always said is that contemporary R&B is all R and no B.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

MG

[J.A.W.]

Am now listening to disc 2 of the big box Bear Family dedicated to one of the pioneers of "the real thing", Louis Jordan. Great music

[JSngry]

I got no problem with any of it being called anything. I tend to hear it all as functional music for whatever time it happened in, and that function is pretty much always the same - communicating through rhythm (infinite variations of a basic pulse/impulse) and "blues" (which is a lot more than just a set of measured devices). I can't hear a "label", but I can hear music and what that music is "doing" (and who it's being "done" for...).

This is more perfect every time I see it, although I'm sure there are those who find it more an abomination everytime they see it.

Rhythm & Blutopia!

[John L]

I don't see anything wrong with using the term R&B for 60s Soul Music. There was a lot of continuity with past R&B, along with new elements.

We don't have any problem calling the Art Ensemble "jazz," even though it probably wouldn't have been recognized as such a decade before it was recorded. Bebop wouldn't have been recognized as jazz in the 20s. (Many didn't even recognize it as jazz in the 40s and 50s.)

Music changes, but we sometimes use the same labels to reflect continuity in development.

I recall in a recent interview that Bettye Lavette objected very strong to being labeled a "Soul" artist. She finds that label demeaning. She proudly considers herself to be an R&B singer in the grand tradition.

I agree with Dan that the B has become rather weak in most of today's R&B.

[Pete C]

We don't have any problem calling the Art Ensemble "jazz," even though it probably wouldn't have been recognized as such a decade before it was recorded.

[Big Beat Steve]

I don't see anything wrong with using the term R&B for 60s Soul Music. There was a lot of continuity with past R&B, along with new elements.

I don't think too many would have complained about 60s soul being referred to as R&B. The continuity is there ideed. But as this series of "100 R&B" LPS reaches well into the 70s, the plain descriptor "R&B" becomes a bit misleading IMO. And I think the main bone of contention here was the way the "R&B" term was/is used for even much more recent forms of black music - beyond that specific list.

OTOH it really was to be expected that this "100 R&B LP" package would turn out like that. After all, were there all that many R&B LPs (i.e. original LP packagings) prior to the final years of the 50s (i.e. the end of the "real" key R&B era) to be reissued NOW? Remember that - in contrast with jazz - R&B as part of "popular" music remained mostly a 45rpm medium for relatively long. I can only see a scant handful pre-1960 items on the first few pages of that list.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Big Beat Steve

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I can only see a scant handful pre-1960 items on the first few pages of that list.

And most of them were compilations of music first issued on 45. A quick shufti through the Atlantic album list reveals the following R&B LPs that seem to have been recorded as albums.

8002 - La Vern - La Vern Baker [1956]

8015 - Ivory Joe Sings the Old and New - Ivory Joe Hunter [1958]

8019/SD-8019 - Blues From the Gutter - Champion Jack Dupree [4/59]

8035/SD-8035 - The Wildest Guitar - Mickey Baker [1959]

8036/SD-8036 - Precious Memories La Vern Baker Sings Gospel - La Vern Baker [11/59]

8039 - Ray Charles In Person - Ray Charles [1960]

MG

[Hot Ptah]

I can only see a scant handful pre-1960 items on the first few pages of that list.

And most of them were compilations of music first issued on 45. A quick shufti through the Atlantic album list reveals the following R&B LPs that seem to have been recorded as albums.

8002 - La Vern - La Vern Baker [1956]

8015 - Ivory Joe Sings the Old and New - Ivory Joe Hunter [1958]

8019/SD-8019 - Blues From the Gutter - Champion Jack Dupree [4/59]

8035/SD-8035 - The Wildest Guitar - Mickey Baker [1959]

8036/SD-8036 - Precious Memories La Vern Baker Sings Gospel - La Vern Baker [11/59]

8039 - Ray Charles In Person - Ray Charles [1960]

MG

Another Atlantic R&B album recorded as an album is T Bone Walker--T Bone Blues (great album, too). http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/image.html/WPCR-27524

[Teasing the Korean]

How is the "Funky Nassau" album by the Beginning of the End? I loved that single as a kid. Is the whole album like that?

[Noj]

I really like it, TTK. Nice consistent groove through the whole thing. "Come Down" is another standout track, and there's a great instrumental called "When She Made Me Promise" which closes it out.