erwbol Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Lots of tunes from that album made it onto Jim Alfredson's Patton Tribute. I'm awaiting the arrival of that one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yep, the Shorter only. I used to buy new Blue Note series in bulk, often only to find that I didn't like their sound after repeated listening. That cost me a small fortune, so I thought I'd try just the one this time Gotcha. I started doing that, initially, with the 24-bit TOCJ series. They're all sold off now, except one: Dizzy Reece's Star Bright. It still sounds fairly horrible, but it's the best edition I've owned. (I've never heard the Mosaic Select edition; the JRVG was excruciating.) I wonder what this SHM-CD series could do with that Reece title. Some hip Mobley on that date. If you're inclined, do post your response — positive or negative — to that Shorter disc when time permits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yep, the Shorter only. I used to buy new Blue Note series in bulk, often only to find that I didn't like their sound after repeated listening. That cost me a small fortune, so I thought I'd try just the one this time Gotcha. I started doing that, initially, with the 24-bit TOCJ series. They're all sold off now, except one: Dizzy Reece's Star Bright. It still sounds fairly horrible, but it's the best edition I've owned. (I've never heard the Mosaic Select edition; the JRVG was excruciating.) I wonder what this SHM-CD series could do with that Reece title. Some hip Mobley on that date. If you're inclined, do post your response — positive or negative — to that Shorter disc when time permits.Will do.Have you heard the BN Works version of Star Bright (TOCJ-4023)? It's the one I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 Have you heard the BN Works version of Star Bright (TOCJ-4023)? I haven't. I'd have to imagine it sounding better than the 24-bit TOCJ edition. I have a number of gaps in my TOCJ collection (Hank Mobley BN 1568 and My Point of View come to mind, as well as Into Somethin'), but I haven't been actively seeking them out. The TOCJ of Soundin' Off, on a related note, I think sounds gorgeous. It's one of my favorite Reece titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted February 5, 2014 Report Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Have you heard the BN Works version of Star Bright (TOCJ-4023)? I haven't. I'd have to imagine it sounding better than the 24-bit TOCJ edition. I have a number of gaps in my TOCJ collection (Hank Mobley BN 1568 and My Point of View come to mind, as well as Into Somethin'), but I haven't been actively seeking them out. The TOCJ of Soundin' Off, on a related note, I think sounds gorgeous. It's one of my favorite Reece titles.The BN Works Star Bright is the one that to my ears sounded best of all the versions I've had. At one time I got the Dizzy Reece Mosaic Select to replace my BN Works and McMaster copies of the various albums, but after comparing the lot I sold the Select instead. The only Reece BN Works I sold was Soundin' Off; I replaced it with the Analogue Productions hybrid SACD. Edited February 5, 2014 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Has anyone heard the Maiden Voyage from this SHM series? I never have been really happy with any of the versions I have of this... wonder if there is a problem with the source tapes. Edited February 6, 2014 by skeith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Similar sentiment expressed on the Hoffman board. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/which-50s-and-60s-van-gelder-blue-note-recordings-have-the-best-audio-quality.341721/#post-9990566 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Similar sentiment expressed on the Hoffman board. http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/which-50s-and-60s-van-gelder-blue-note-recordings-have-the-best-audio-quality.341721/#post-9990566 interesting... thanks Lon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtSalt Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Indeed, very interesting, I noticed a comment about a Lee Morgan topic being deleted, what happened there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Maiden Voyage SHM should be delivered to me in the next seven days. The BN Works was supposed to have been made from Japanese tapes. That one sounds better than the McMaster and RVG. Edited February 6, 2014 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedR Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) There have been debates here about LP vs Cd with IIR most preferring the sound of original Blue Note LPs. But the thread Lon linked shows that the opinion of RVG and others felt the original LPs were not at all close to what RVG hoped for. Edited February 6, 2014 by TedR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 People should read that link to Hoffman all the way through. It doesn't address all the issues though. Do we want to hear what 'Rudy' wanted us to hear? Or do we want to hear what the musicians might have wanted? Or just what we want which, after all, might matter most? At the heart of the issue of 'what we hear' is the question of balance, and we start to run into the issue that small jazz groups may have in general never really resolved the question of what they are supposed to sound like in what real or imagined acoustic space. It is NOT a matter of what the individual instruments 'really' sound like - perhaps surprisingly, and just as well for Rudy's piano - nor is it a matter of forensic detail of resolution. It is a matter of the balance in the hearing, feeling or imagining of the music as a whole, where in fact the music is not a whole but where it is willed and wished to be a whole. This is true of all music, and in small group jazz the problems of balance are notorious given the differences of timbre and volume between the instruments. For this reason we are always dealing with a certain invention of a jazz sound in the recording/mastering/playback processes, and for that reason models of faithfulness to the 'tape' or to the intentions of various parties (including listeners) don't actually get to the nub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtSalt Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I think the issue gets obscured by that enduring yet somewhat elusive quality of provenance which dictates that one must be as close to the original source tape or deep groove Blue Note or the remastered version will not be authentic. But authentic to who's ears? The other interesting issue touched upon in the Hoffman forum topic, is that Blue Note is not, from an audiophile perspective (and others depending on taste and preferance) is not the technological epitamy of modern and hard bop jazz recording in the late 50s and 60s. But, if you speak to Blue Note deep groove aficionados, some record shop owners and those getting into jazz for the first time, you will see that Blue Note is king, whilst the likes of the better recorded Contemporary Records stuff is largely ignored. Great for collectors like me, who can pick-up Contemporary albums up cheaply compared to Blue Note. Indeed, a number of my mod friends in the UK, who are now getting into the roots of modernism and exploring jazz, have started to wax lyrical on the mystical and technological brilliance inherent in the Blue Note recordings that eminate from the genius of Rudy van Gelder, are genuinely quite shocked when I inform them that Rudy was recording engineer for several record labels and much of the brand sound of Blue Note when compared to the likes of Prestige is down to rehearsal time and laying on some food and beer at the session. But not to take anything away from these Blue Note SHM's, I am buying them in abundance, but the current Prestige 7000 series SHM-CD's are equally as brilliant and worthy of praise and our listening pleasure. The David Stone Martin 10 inch Collector's Selection is also sonically good (although appear to be needle jobs in the main, but perhaps the best way for a CD version to get as close to the first pressing?) and are a very nice representation of the Norman Granz 10"s from the very early 50s. Edited February 8, 2014 by ArtSalt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 ArtSalt, I've taken up your repeated recommendation of the Prestige 7000 series SHMs and ordered Thelonious Monk Trio +2 (UCCU-5227) and Sonny Rollins' Worktime (UCCU-5220) to start with. Do you happen to already have these discs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtSalt Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I haven't the Sonny Rollins (yet), but the Monk Trio is superb, really on form sessions from '52 (Art Blakey and Gary Mapp on bass) and '54 (Max Roach and Percy Heath) with bonus tracks Work and Nutty. Similar to the Blue Note series, Michael Cuscuna is involved and also Ira Gitler does the introductionary notes. I've just purchased the first Moondog release, we'll see how that ones goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Has anyone heard the Maiden Voyage from this SHM series? I never have been really happy with any of the versions I have of this... wonder if there is a problem with the source tapes. Which versions do you have? The Maiden Voyage SHM is certainly an improvement on the BN Works. Generally very dynamic, and the horns are much better defined, better detail on the drums as well. Very pleasant on the ears. Impressive. Edited February 11, 2014 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiRiIII Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Has anyone heard the Maiden Voyage from this SHM series? I never have been really happy with any of the versions I have of this... wonder if there is a problem with the source tapes. Which versions do you have? The Maiden Voyage SHM is certainly an improvement on the BN Works. Generally very dynamic, and the horns are much better defined, better detail on the drums as well. Very pleasant on the ears. Impressive. Wonderful news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Has anyone heard the Maiden Voyage from this SHM series? I never have been really happy with any of the versions I have of this... wonder if there is a problem with the source tapes. Which versions do you have? The Maiden Voyage SHM is certainly an improvement on the BN Works. Generally very dynamic, and the horns are much better defined, better detail on the drums as well. Very pleasant on the ears. Impressive. I have only the RVG... I do not keep more than 1 version of any cd I have... don't have the space... I have the RVG because I thought it was better than any prior version... yet still not without problems.... have you compared the SHM to the RVG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Has anyone heard the Maiden Voyage from this SHM series? I never have been really happy with any of the versions I have of this... wonder if there is a problem with the source tapes. Which versions do you have? The Maiden Voyage SHM is certainly an improvement on the BN Works. Generally very dynamic, and the horns are much better defined, better detail on the drums as well. Very pleasant on the ears. Impressive. I have only the RVG... I do not keep more than 1 version of any cd I have... don't have the space... I have the RVG because I thought it was better than any prior version... yet still not without problems.... have you compared the SHM to the RVG? I got rid of the RVG after I bought the BN Works. I got hold of the eighties McMaster by accident. (An Amazon marketplace seller send me Maiden Voyage inside the case of the McMaster of Empyrean Isles. I got to keep both.) Of the three the BN Works had my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Now listening to Speak Like A Child (again). I listened to the first track right after Maiden Voyage and felt a bit let down. This disc is a bit louder and does not sound as impressive in general. Perhaps to be expected from a dressed up piano trio recorded by Rudy Van Gelder. Some time ago I downloaded the RVG and didn't like what I heard. Last year I found a cheap near mint copy of the BN Works on ebay. That one had too little highs (what people refer to as the rolled off top?). Great record, though. Nice photo of Herbie with prehistoric headphones on on the inside of the back artwork. Edited February 11, 2014 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niels Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Today I received my Andrew Hill - Grass Roots copy and I like what I hear! I will definitely order some more of these in the near future. Much more affordable than hunting after early Liberty vinyl pressings (Blue Note OG/DG pressings aren't in my budget so I don't even try to go after them). And what great service from CDjapan, it only took a week to arrive here for very little shipping costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Now listening to Speak Like A Child (again). I listened to the first track right after Maiden Voyage and felt a bit let down. This disc is a bit louder and does not sound as impressive in general. Perhaps to be expected from a dressed up piano trio recorded by Rudy Van Gelder. Some time ago I downloaded the RVG and didn't like what I heard. Last year I found a cheap near mint copy of the BN Works on ebay. That one had too little highs (what people refer to as the rolled off top?). Great record, though. Nice photo of Herbie with prehistoric headphones on on the inside of the back artwork. Speak Like a Child is another one I was thinking about getting again. You are saying the SHM of Speak is disappointing compared to SHM Maiden Voyage? that is bad news... again my impression is that Maiden Voyage was one of the recordings that has not sounded right on CD to me... but I am encouraged by your report on the SHM version of Maiden Voyage.... it must be really improved. Edited February 11, 2014 by skeith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Other people might disagree. I'm no audiophile. I do not even really like comparing different masterings. Unfortunately, it's a necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wouldn't it be nice if all discs were mastered optimally? I got in the Ornette and the two Miles volumes, and pre-ordered a half a dozen of the next batch. Listened to the Ornette, NICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiRiIII Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wouldn't it be nice if all discs were mastered optimally? I got in the Ornette and the two Miles volumes, and pre-ordered a half a dozen of the next batch. Listened to the Ornette, NICE. Nice! Ornette is on its way as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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