Jackie McLean's Post-1975 Recordings (All Labels)

[Mark Stryker]

Might as well finish out the story, right? After the SteepleChase years comes lots of stuff for lots of labels domestic and foreign, ranging from pick-up studio dates with peers, reunions, concert performances, working bands with mostly young cats. Generally, Jackie's chops are much stronger during these years, and there's a marked increase in his authority both technically and conceptually, especially in the late 80s and 90s on Triloka and Birdology.

"Dynasty" (Triloka) is as great as anything Jackie ever recorded, a real synthesis of all the ideas and styles (bebop, modal, inside-out expressionism, multi-horn front lines, compositions and arrangements) he was associated with throughout his career. The follow-up on Triloka, "Rites of Passage," isn't quite on the same level but it's still strong. I also really like the Birdology discs, especially "Rhythm of the Earth" but also "Fire and Love" and "The Jackie Mac Attack Live" -- all of which conceptually descend from "Dynasty." Going back to the late '70s, I've always been fond of the bebop/standards date with the Great Jazz Trio (reunion with Tony Williams).

Interested to hear other folks opinions, especially of the harder to find Japanese things and any bootlegs that might be out there....

I appreciate your appreciation of Jackie, which I share, but the statement I put in bold above just strikes me as a vast overstatement. Revisionism is fine, I suppose, but at a certain point, it can be carried too far. I think it does a disservice to the many undeniably great albums he did record. Just my 2 cents.

I don't think of my opinion as revisionism (as in trying to rewrite conventional wisdom or adopt a willfully contrarian stance.) "Dynasty" to me truly is as great in its way as anything else in Jackie's career, which is not to say I would rank it higher than "Let Freedom Ring" or "One Step Beyond" or other earlier peaks or that I would necessarily call it as "essential." If my praise seems overstated, well, I'm willing to own it.

I've spent a lot of time with "Dynasty" -- as I have with the rest of Jackie's catalog (see my post in the BN thread) -- and I find the playing incredibly inspired and moving. I don't hear it as less personal or less urgent than his earlier work, even if that urgency speaks of a different kind of intensity and expression. Moreover, there is a quality of majesty in Jackie's best late work that simply isn't present before. I find that thrilling to hear in the context of the trajectory of his life. It's a remarkable, hard-won victory. Another quality here is that just in terms of sheer command of the saxophone, Jackie's late work is stronger than ever -- his intonation is more consistent, his breath support is better, his execution more on the button and less hesitant. I wonder if this added degree of polish is what others are responding to negatively. Though it should be noted we're still talking about Jackie McLean and it ain't never gonna sound like a studio cat or Phil Woods or whomever, and I'm in no way suggesting that "cleaner" equates to "better."

Coda: Everyone listens with their own ears, history, preferences and biases and I would not deny any experienced listener on this board their own reaction. I will note that the early/later dichotomy is always slippery terrain, and it's worth noting that when it comes to another alto player, Art Pepper, that some folks find his early work preferable for its balance and poise and his late work mannered in its groping expressionism -- just the opposite from the views being expressed about Jackie, the only constant being that its the earlier version of each saxophonist that ends up being preferable.

For what its worth, I'll take post 1975 Art Pepper any day over the early stuff.

Coda 2: It's not on youtube or I'd link to it, but I'd put "A House is Not a Home" on "Dynasty" up against anything from the old days. It's magisterial without mortgaging all of Jackie's rawness (even if it's not AS raw as it would have been 30 years prior, but then it wouldn't have been as soaring either. And that's just the record, I heard Jackie play it two nights in a row in Chicago in the mid 90s and he just destroyed the room.)

Edited December 2, 2014 by Mark Stryker

[JSngry]

I've spent a lot of time with "Dynasty" -- as I have with the rest of Jackie's catalog (see my post in the BN thread) -- and I find the playing incredibly inspired and moving. I don't hear it as less personal or less urgent than his earlier work, even if that urgency speaks of a different kind of intensity and expression. Moreover, there is a quality of majesty in Jackie's best late work that simply isn't present before. I find that thrilling to hear in the context of the trajectory of his life. It's a remarkable, hard-won victory.

Hello, hard-won victories. Hello, mommas don't let your babies grow old having to sell records/shit gigs to people who only want you to be one thing just in order to stay sort of alive until you have to make the next one(s). Hello, true personal dignity eats "art" for lunch - if it can ever get the damn food to the table. Hello, this isn't sometimes/maybe, this is always.

[AllenLowe]

I still blame it on the Yamaha.......

and my mother and I got a divorce a long time ago.

Edited December 2, 2014 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

ok - Larry - how about this from 1972?

interesting because, in light of what you said here earlier, I do hear a real difference between this Montmarte session (which I love) and the later/later McLean.

[Larry Kart]

ok - Larry - how about this from 1972?

interesting because, in light of what you said here earlier, I do hear a real difference between this Montmarte session (which I love) and the later/later McLean.

Allen -- I hear the same difference(s) that you do. Here is that sense of air, space, meaningful hesitations, self-reflection (if you will) that I mentioned or alluded to in a previous post on the thread.

[Larry Kart]

Everyone listens with their own ears, history, preferences and biases and I would not deny any experienced listener on this board their own reaction. I will note that the early/later dichotomy is always slippery terrain, and it's worth noting that when it comes to another alto player, Art Pepper, that some folks find his early work preferable for its balance and poise and his late work mannered in its groping expressionism -- just the opposite from the views being expressed about Jackie, the only constant being that its the earlier version of each saxophonist that ends up being preferable.

For what its worth, I'll take post 1975 Art Pepper any day over the early stuff.

Yes, the early versus late Pepper analogy to McLean looks like it might be a sound one, but I don't think so because a preference for the "balance and poise" of the earlier Pepper over the (sometimes) "groping expressionism" of later Pepper is not IMO "just the opposite from the views being expressed about Jackie." In particular, the "balance and poise" of 1955-60 Pepper was not preceded by a period of "groping expressionism" on his part. Rather, the balance and poise of that period of Pepper involved a considerable expansion/loosening up of his previous musical-emotional resources, lovely and moving though his prior playing could be. See Terry Martin's essay in "The Art Pepper Reader" on this.

As for McLean, as I said before, later McLean seemed to me involve a kind of ironing-out process on his part. More orderliness of a sort but less immediacy. In any case, late Pepper certainly involved no ironing out or "normalization," nor do I think there was there any such ironing out in 1955-60 Pepper, quite the opposite -- though one could argue that, in the light of what was to come next, there might have been some ironing out or "normalization" of things in pre-1955 Pepper. If there was any of that, though, I think it was basically a function of the development of a relatively young man and the musical environments in which he found himself.

​BTW, as you might guess, I'm basically an admirer of 1955-60 Pepper, though I've heard some latter Pepper that was superb, especially in person.

[Mark Stryker]

I'd go along with the Pepper analysis to the degree that it suggests thoughtful evidence of an apples to oranges comparison with McLean --nicely done, that. Still, I don't think it necessarily negates the broader point that in both cases the winner for many listeners/critics ends up being the earliest mature version of the player and also the version that they fell in love with the first place. By the way, I'm not immune to this tendency either in other cases.

Re: 1972 McLean. I love that live date too. But the characterizations of "meaningful hesitations" and "self-reflection" are interesting. I hear some of the same hesitations and clipped phrases and don't hear self-reflection but rather a saxophonist struggling against the horn -- which is beautiful for what it is but not in the way that you're describing. Which brings up the question of how much we project ourselves into the listening experience and the minds of the artists. As that recalls something you brought up the other day in relation to an old piece about Frank D'Rone: the "critic's disease."

As I asked then: Is there any vaccine available? I mean, we ALL could use a booster shot every once in a while.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Mark Stryker

[Larry Kart]

Mark: About falling love with the earliest mature version of the player, two somewhat contrary instances from my experience would be Coleman Hawkins and Earl Hines. I love/admire them from all periods but feel that late Hines (all those stunning solo albums) was his finest work and that the best of late Hawkins (up to the point where ill-health/weakness became an issue) was often astonishing and even unexpected (the depth of blues feeling) -- especially his work on Swingville (e.g. "Hawk Eyes" with Charlie Shavers) his Felsted album, his live performance at the Playboy Jazz Festival, the "Mood Indigo" from Impulse album with Ellington, etc.

Also, on a selective basis (because there are lots of ups and downs there, and the musical and emotional differences are so great than one might almost be talking about two different people), I think I might prefer Billie Holiday of the '50s to her vintage '30s work.

About projecting ourselves into the listening experience and the minds of the artists, I think that's unavoidable, at least as a starting point. It's like falling in love -- not a rational act and it can't be done in cold blood but one hopes to bring a fair amount of common sense, fairness, decency, you name, it to the party as needed and when possible. Was it Ross McDonald who wrote: "Never sleep with a woman who's crazier than you are"?

[JSngry]

Pepper/McLean? Parallel, at best.

Let's try Rollins/McLean - neighborhood buddies, went through a lot of life-shit, came out on the other side, let their wives manage their career because that's about the only place the trust was, and both always having to, for some, live up to their past music while having a no doubt infinitely preferable present personal.

and are ya' like me, were you listening to No Problem for the first time in a room with somebody who heard those squeals and said "Lennie Pickett!" and then you had to say, no, dumbass, Jackie McLean!

[Leeway]

For what its worth, I'll take post 1975 Art Pepper any day over the early stuff.

I happen to agree with you about Pepper, but disagree with where you take it. Larry really put the case best, so I won't attempt to restate it, but to me, Pepper in late career was working against desperation (or maybe it was disaster), while McLean was working against fatigue (or maybe exhaustion). There's a different frisson associated with each. I prefer Pepper late, but not McLean.

[Larry Kart]

Pepper/McLean? Parallel, at best.

Let's try Rollins/McLean - neighborhood buddies, went through a lot of life-shit, came out on the other side, let their wives manage their career because that's about the only place the trust was, and both always having to, for some, live up to their past music while having a no doubt infinitely preferable present personal.

and are ya' like me, were you listening to No Problem for the first time in a room with somebody who heard those squeals and said "Lennie Pickett!" and then you had to say, no, dumbass, Jackie McLean!

Rollins/McLean is about as close as you can get, I would guess.

[soulpope]

For what its worth, I'll take post 1975 Art Pepper any day over the early stuff.

I happen to agree with you about Pepper, but disagree with where you take it. Larry really put the case best, so I won't attempt to restate it, but to me, Pepper in late career was working against desperation (or maybe it was disaster), while McLean was working against fatigue (or maybe exhaustion). There's a different frisson associated with each. I prefer Pepper late, but not McLean.

Had the chance to witness both artist during live performances in their "late careers". To me Art Pepper played with an urgency and intensity as if his life would depend on each single note played......Jackie Mclean in the early eighties left impressions with me as somebody who physically was "there", but either couldn`t or did not want to to cross certain inner personal "security lines".....so based on that Pepper`s visibility made it IMO easier to appreciate his efforts (don`t get me wrong, I admire Art Pepper anyway) whereas McLean somehow remained "in the shadows"....

Edited December 2, 2014 by soulpope

[Mark Stryker]

Larry: Upon reflection, the stronger bias is probably not for the first mature version of the player but for the first version a fan falls in love with. FWIW, I prefer early Holiday to late; late Hines and Hawkins to early Hines and Hawkins; 60s Rollins to 50s or post 1972 but love it all for different reasons. As I often say, if I could play like anybody, it would be Sonny Rollins on a good night in 1965.

Soulpope: If you heard Jackie in the early 80s, he was still tied closely to academia and playing inconsistently; that's more connected to the 70s in my mind. His work by the end of the decade was on a whole other level. I don't think the "late" period takes off until 1988 though he's ramping up by '85,

Leeway: I wouldn't say McLean was working against fatigue or exhaustion late in life. To the contrary, he was energized -- but in a different way and to different ends, but he was still feeding off a burning desire to express himself through the horn and he was still working in the present tense, his eyes and ears cocked toward the future. I think to put it in terms of fatigue and/or exhaustion is to say that McLean was artistically spent, running on fumes, going through the motions, etc., and that's what I think I find most objectionable about this line of criticism. To be clear: I don't deny changes in the playing (and the life) and I certainly don't deny that the later music simply doesn't move you (or others) as much as the earlier playing and that there are honest reasons for that. What bothers me is ascribing these changes to an artist who ran out of gas. I think that's contrary to both the aural evidence and the life evidence. To paraphrase Don Draper: When a man walks onto the bandstand, he brings his whole life with him.

Changing the subject:

If your house is burning: What is the one Jackie McLean LP you grab first? Tell you what, since we all love Jackie, I'll let everybody grab two.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Mark Stryker

[soulpope]

To paraphrase Don Draper: When a man walks onto the bandstand, he brings his whole life with him.

But maybe another Don Draper quote appropriately describes some (of our) estimations on McLean`s later career :

"People tell you who they are, but we ignore it because we want them to be who we want them to be."

[Homefromtheforest]

If my house was burning I'd grab "bluesnik" and "destination out"...without thinking twice.

[JSngry]

Don Draper, prophet.

Ray Draper, not so much.

Destination Out & Hipnosis, the half with Grachan.

But if my house really is burning, I grabbing my tenor first.

[Leeway]

One Step Beyond

Destination ....Out!

I'd try to sneak New Soil past you too

[colinmce]

Jackie's Bag and One Step Beyond.

I'd glance longingly at It's Time and Bluesnik as I ran out.

[felser]

'One Step Beyond' and 'Jacknife'.

[mjazzg]

Destination Out! and Let freedom Ring but I've stored Hipnosis in one of those sleeves as well.....

[JSngry]

The firemen (one in particular, our man Higgins) were nice enough to bring me some of Cornbread from the kitchen, which is where the fire started. "I Should Care", but that's a Consequence of not having a home fire extinguisher.

[Peter Friedman]

But sometimes the quest continues in a different direction. Art Pepper comes to mind. I get the sense that the Coltrane influence , in particular, was responsible for his strong search ( or quest) in his later years. Some of what Larry described as meaningful hesitations compared to a more seamless solo seems more a part of Pepper's later playing.

In some ways the same thing can be said about Lee Konitz.

What I personally find interesting from this discussion is that I much prefer the earlier long flowing seamless lines of early Konitz to his heistating searching in his later playing. With Art pepper it is a bit more complicated for me. Overall I prefer Art's more seamless early solos, but every once in a while his more searching later solos grab me too.

[felser]

I find late Pepper really grabs me. I admire 50's Pepper, relish 70's-80's Pepper

[Larry Kart]

Which two albums? Maybe "Jackie McLean and Co." and "Consequence," with a wistful nod to "New Soil." Other albums probably are more important, but these touch my heart ("Consequence" partly because I wrote the notes for the first LP issue of the date back in 1979).

[Chuck Nessa]

I think the some of the complaints about the "late Jackie"'s sound might have to do with microphones used in the '80s and beyond. I do not discount the comment about the saxophone, but when I heard him in Chicago the last couple of times, his sound seemed to be there. I love Mr. McLean.