Original Dixieland Jazz Band

[EKE BBB]

"Jazz is the assassination of the melody, it's the slaying of syncopation" (Nick Larocca)

Now there´s a new ODJB reissue coming "The Original Dixieland Jazz Band - In London 1919-1920 & The Okeh Sessions 1922-23 (Retrievel)", I just wanted to know what´s your opinion on this band, and their importance in the history of jazz.

They were the first group to put jazz on record ("Livery Stable Blues" and "Dixie Jass Band One-Step" for the Victor Talking Machine Company in February 26, 1917), and even Columbia had recorded them in January ("Darktown Strutters Ball" and "Indiana") but rejected to release those sides.

Do you think they were simply at the right place at the right time, or do you recognize them outstanding musical merits?

Admitting that their music was full of gimmicks and that Nick Larocca was an egomanicacal jester pretending they had invented jazz, IMHO we can deny they did a lot to make jazz popular ("Livery Stable Blues" was a great hit and they introduced jazz in Europe with their 1919-20 London concerts). And I must say I DO enjoy their music, I find it.... refreshing??? even more than 80 years after it was recorded.

I highly recommend this Timeless release, remastered by John R.T. Davies

BTW: Bix recognize Nick LaRocca as a great influence in his cornet playing.

[EKE BBB]

Now this is music!

[jazzbo]

I have all their stuff. It's only rock and roll. . . but I like it.

I guess the drummer is my favorite. Tony Spargo (later spelling of his name) was a great drummer. I love his later appearances where he plays the kazoo while ALSO playing killer drums!

[brownie]

Never had a taste for the ODJB. I have listened to their records a number of time, they leave me cold. So much better early (post-ODJB) stuff available!

[John L]

I find the ODJB to be fun, although I have trouble staying with them too long.

Based on the balance of (very limited) evidence, I tend to believe that the ODJB was of genuine major importance in jazz history. They were not really an imitation of a black jazz band, as some histories would have you believe, but played their own variety of New Orleans Jass of the vintage. Their records were highly influential.

I also accept the argument that their records were the first recorded jazz. As stiff as they may sound relative to what came later, there is a certain rhythmic nuance to the ODJB that makes them sound like "jazz" as opposed to much stiffer ragtime arrangements that other bands were recording at the time.

[Harold_Z]

I love the ODJB and pretty much agree with John L. regarding their place in Jazz history. I CAN stay with them through the course of a cd and enjoy every minute of it.

BTW - I hear a bass drum audible here and there on those RCA 1917 sides, contrary to what I've read where a bass drum wasn't recorded until McKenzie and Condon's 1927 date with Gene Krupa.

[Christiern]

Historically important, musically so-so. There were good players in the ODJB (Larry Shields, for ex.) and, if nothing else, we should be glad that Bix found them inspiring, but this was hokey music.

[Alexander]

I agree with Chris. Can't deny their importance, but for the most part the music doesn't send me.

[EKE BBB]

Hep has just put out a new CD with the "reunion" 1936-38 recordings of the ODJB:

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...&cart=356762347

[Fer Urbina]

Never thought much of them, but a few days ago I had Allen Lowe's "Devilin' Tune" on while I was doing something else and this tune came on. I thought they had a little extra something, stopped what I was doing, went to check the band and tune in the booklet, and it was the ODJB. Would have to check again what made them stand out from other contemporary bands, but I think it could be a certain rhythmic zest.

F

[Harold_Z]

Never thought much of them, but a few days ago I had Allen Lowe's "Devilin' Tune" on while I was doing something else and this tune came on. I thought they had a little extra something, stopped what I was doing, went to check the band and tune in the booklet, and it was the ODJB. Would have to check again what made them stand out from other contemporary bands, but I think it could be a certain rhythmic zest.

F

I reacted similarly. I knew the ODJB records pretty well so I recognized them when it came on in Allen's set (I was listening on a discman while walking), but I definitely detected "something" extra that they brought to the music. It prompted me to listen to the RCA CD of all the 1917 ODJB recordings for the first time in a couple of years.

[jazzbo]

I think I have that "reunion" material courtesy of RCA and "Soundies" labels. . . could be wrong. Interesting stuff, but not like the Original DJB. But.. .some hot Sparbaro!

Edited June 26, 2006 by jazzbo

[Stereojack]

I think I have that "reunion" material courtesy of RCA "Soundies" labels. . . could be wrong. Interesting stuff, but not like the Original DJB. But.. .some hot Spabaro!

In the 1936 reunion, they rerecorded a number of the original tunes, and also, more interestingly, made a number of big band sides featuring contemporary swing arrangements. I'm glad that these are finally being made available again, probably for the first time all in one place.

[mmilovan]

BTW - I hear a bass drum audible here and there on those RCA 1917 sides, contrary to what I've read where a bass drum wasn't recorded until McKenzie and Condon's 1927 date with Gene Krupa.

Me too. Audible bass druming, despite the fact that bass drum were not recorded often in later jazz recorded history for possible "needle skipping" reasons...

Edited June 27, 2006 by mmilovan

[AllenLowe]

I'm a fan of the ODJB - also important because so much of their repertoire became standards in that realm - though I do like them on their own terms -

Edited June 27, 2006 by AllenLowe

[Jazz Kat]

I find this band very interesting. Every time I listen to them, mainly Livery Stable Blues, it feels like a history lesson that I actually enjoy. I couldn't listen to their music all day long though. Thank goodness for the evolution of recording technology.

[Harold_Z]

Thank goodness for the evolution of recording technology.

Actually, and I know it's hard for someone unaccustomed to early recordings to hear this at first, but the ODJB Victor recordings are very well recorded given the technology of the time.

[EKE BBB]

Thank goodness for the evolution of recording technology.

Actually, and I know it's hard for someone unaccustomed to early recordings to hear this at first, but the ODJB Victor recordings are very well recorded given the technology of the time.

Just compare them with any Paramount recording from six or seven years later...

[CJ Shearn]

I can't listen to the ODJB for very long either. They are important for putting jazz on wax, but the semesters I TA'ed the jazz class (and also when I took it for fun) hearing "Original Dixieland Jass Band Two Step" over and over was maddening. One thing I thank that class for is opening my ears to pre swing era jazz though I don't necessarily enjoy it.

[AllenLowe]

It's interesting to compare the ODJB with whatever early black "jazz" bands we can find - particularly that of Wilbur Sweatman, which clearly shows the influence of the ODJB plus some other interesting aspects (vaudeville, minstrel music) - another early black band to record is that of Mamie Smith (ca. 1921) which included the trumnpeter Johnny Dunn - there exists an interesting version of Royal Garden Blues from that year by them. With all of this, however, it's really all a guessing came as to who was doing what when; we know, of course, that black musicians were the first, but, particularly in New Orleans, there was so much inter-action and so little actual recording at the time as to forever prevent us from knowing as much as we might want to know. Add to this the clearly racist responses of some of the white New Orleansians (like Tom Brown) when questioned years later, and you have something of an historical guessing game. However, we also do know how much the music of the North and Northeast changes as soon as New Orleans types like Celestin (and than, of course, Armstrong) came North. We can hear how "stiff" even players like Eubie Black sound in 1921, and even the great James P sounds vastly different after about 1923. Of course, once more, we are relying upon recordings to create this chronology, and there are too many gaps to be really certain about everything. And just to add, it's interesting to hear Kid Ory's Sunshine recordings from 1920; it alwasy makes me think of Pops Foster's comments about how there was a gentler, more lyrical side to New orleans that is rarely credited. AND, just to complicate things even more, there is a powerful N.O. string band tradition that is neither really jazz nor non-jazz, and is only partly represented on recordings. Lonnie Johnson come out of this, and would that we had much more of this represented; it would really help us understand how the music was mixing and changing before 1925.

Edited June 30, 2006 by AllenLowe

[Clunky]

Other than the wonderful Celestin/Morgan Jazz Oracle release what CDs are available that have "black " New Orleans bands, recorded in that city in the 20s. I gather from the liners to the Morgan/Celestin release that relativly little was recorded by these groups.

[EKE BBB]

On the making, release and advertisement of ODJB's Victor 18255

[medjuck]

I've read in a couple of places that Kid Ory's band was the first Black Jazz band to be recorded (in LA in 1922) Should that be amended to the first Black Jazz band to be recorded on the West Coast (which is what it says in his Wikipedia entry)?

Edited January 22, 2010 by medjuck

[AllenLowe]

well, Mamie Smith's band - with Johnny Dunn and maybe Willie The Lion - recorded Royal Garden Blues in 1921.

The Ory is significant - reading Armstong's autiobio, he notes the kind of lawn or society gigs Ory played - and of course, there's Society Blues, a very sedate (but nice) performance.

Edited January 22, 2010 by AllenLowe