How Dates Enter The Jazz Discography Canon, In Error

[JamesAHarrod]

My latest post discusses the dates for Chet Baker’s first live concert recording and the Pete Welding release of Joe Pass’ Joy Spring.

https://jazzresearch.com/discography-dates-chet-baker-joe-pass/

Jim

[jazzcorner]

2 hours ago, JamesAHarrod said:

My latest post discusses the dates for Chet Baker’s first live concert recording and the Pete Welding release of Joe Pass’ Joy Spring.

https://jazzresearch.com/discography-dates-chet-baker-joe-pass/

Jim

Excellent and  very informative for me as West Coast fan.

Thanks a lot

W.B.

[medjuck]

I'd like to be able to find release dates of records.  That gives an understanding of when a recording might have had its earliest influence.

[jazzbo]

14 minutes ago, medjuck said:

I'd like to be able to find release dates of records.  That gives an understanding of when a recording might have had its earliest influence.

I've been surprised that not only are there more albums than I thought I would find with a wikipedia page, but also that they generally/most of the time do reveal the release date.

[medjuck]

15 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I've been surprised that not only are there more albums than I thought I would find with a wikipedia page, but also that they generally/most of the time do reveal the release date.

Yes and sometimes for a musician's  complete output.  There's a Miles Davis discography on Wikipedia from which you can see that in 1957 Miles had five great albums released: Walkin', Cookin', Bag's Groove, Miles Ahead and the first Lp actually titled Birth of the Cool.  What kind of impact must that have had? 

[jazzbo]

A SOLID one.

[JamesAHarrod]

If by "release date" you mean when a record was available in retail stores, I am guessing it varied across the country. Pacific Jazz releases were available earliest in Los Angeles where the local distributor, California Record Distributors, received stock from the pressing plant and filled orders from local stores. CRD would then ship to 30+ other distributors across the country. Down Beat was probably the best source regarding availability as Bock would place ads to promote new releases anticipating that records would be in the stores when the ad appeared or shortly thereafter. The Gerry Mulligan Songbook was recorded in New York in December of 1957. Woody Woodward dated the test pressing when he received it, January 29, 1958. The LP was included in a fullpage display ad in Down Beat on April 17, 1958. The Mulligan Songbook was the first stereo release in the new ST-1000 series. Woody dated the test pressing on June 30, 1958. The stereo version was featured in a display ad in Down Beat on September 2, 1958.

[medjuck]

3 hours ago, JamesAHarrod said:

If by "release date" you mean when a record was available in retail stores, I am guessing it varied across the country. Pacific Jazz releases were available earliest in Los Angeles where the local distributor, California Record Distributors, received stock from the pressing plant and filled orders from local stores. CRD would then ship to 30+ other distributors across the country. Down Beat was probably the best source regarding availability as Bock would place ads to promote new releases anticipating that records would be in the stores when the ad appeared or shortly thereafter. The Gerry Mulligan Songbook was recorded in New York in December of 1957. Woody Woodward dated the test pressing when he received it, January 29, 1958. The LP was included in a fullpage display ad in Down Beat on April 17, 1958. The Mulligan Songbook was the first stereo release in the new ST-1000 series. Woody dated the test pressing on June 30, 1958. The stereo version was featured in a display ad in Down Beat on September 2, 1958.

And there was always the Schwan's  Record Catalogue  but I've heard almost no person or institution has a complete run.

[Chuck Nessa]

14 minutes ago, medjuck said:

And there was always the Schwan's  Record Catalogue  but I've heard almost no person or institution has a complete run.

You left out the final "n".

 

[gvopedz]

Yes, some errors in discographies are due to typographical errors.

[Big Beat Steve]

Interesting to read about these examples of mis-dating. There probably are countless errors like these (many probably perpetuated for decades) and correcting them (and making the corrections known - such as in the of subsequent reissues or re-reissues of the records in question) seem to be a  permanent topic of discussion in some circles. At least that is the impression you get as an attentive liner notes and booklet reader.
And in many cases the formerly published dates seem to be much farther off the "correct" mark than in the two cases you discuss.

Thanks also for (re-)mentioning the discogrpahy history book by Epperson. I had heard about it some time ago and am now seriously considering taking the plunge. (At the risk of maybe not reading it in full more than once ...) It Is an interesting topic, and I wonder to what extent the author gives due credit to those who laid the groundwork (Delaunay, Panassié, McCarthy, Rust, Blackstone, Lange, Jepsen ... - all of them - except Blackstone - European, FWIW) and puts things into perspective when he deals with more recent publications.

Edited March 4 by Big Beat Steve

[mikeweil]

Sometimes it's just sloppiness when filling out the data sheets accompanying a tape box, especially when it's done after the fact. While researching Cal Tjader, S. Duncan Reid was lucky to find out there was a Tjader fan among Californian journalists who announced upcoming concerts and/or reviewed them. The dates in the Fantasy archives often were a week off. Sometimes dates in the album credits had the wrong days of festival appearances. 

I'd rather not muse about studio recordings involving overdubs over a lengthy time period. How do you date these? 

[Hoppy T. Frog]

When did record release dates become standardized across the US? In the 1990s I know Tuesday was the release day for almost all labels, now it's Friday.  

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I've tried to correct a few release dates in discogs and they've been rejected by the site's editors.

[Daniel A]

58 minutes ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I've tried to correct a few release dates in discogs and they've been rejected by the site's editors.

Because you couldn't offer "proof"?

[Kevin Bresnahan]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Because you couldn't offer "proof"?

I don't know why, but they seem to believe the creator of the page knows everything about it so you cannot correct any mistakes. I guess only the original submitter can do that. You can add onto that original listing (like adding pictures) but they seem to balk at corrections.