Organissimo Forum Awards

[Jim Alfredson]

I'm totally confused.

Why was that necessary?

[JohnJ]

I think it should go to Cho.

Posts per day 0

I like his "hands off" approach. 

Some people only post when they have something to say. Strange concept I know.

So what is the definition of having something to say?

Are we only allowed to post a message that adds to jazz scholarship in general?

I used to think this was a place where we could just shoot the breeze. To tell the truth, all these comments on junk posts, etc... have taken a lot of the fun out of this place for me. I no longer post in reply. I used to do so because I know how much it stinks to post something cool and feel like it was ignored.

I know that "stupid questions" thread was annoying to many, but to those participating, it was a lot of fun. Maybe this place has been sour at times because the good-natured fun has been discouraged around here.

I guess I better go write a thesis so I can post something worthwhile here. I'd hate to see an Organissimo forums get together. Would we just stand around and only utter profundities, or would we just be cool and talk about the weather or our kids, etc... These are the kinds of things that build goodwill towards each other.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I really hate this attitude. I live with enough rules in my real life. Maybe we could have a thread or section of the forum for those of us who (as some believe here) are junk posters. That way, the intellectuals won't have to deal with those of us who are beneath them.

I'm off to work on my next post. It will be about the morning of April 14, 1965 and what type of toothpaste Lee Morgan used. Most biographers believe it was Crest, but I have an alternate theory. There seems to have been a shift in his sound and I attribute it to a different toothpaste. You know how a fresh mouth makes you feel...

Jeff, I think you are reading way too much into my initial post. Tough day?

[AfricaBrass]

I think it should go to Cho.

Posts per day 0

I like his "hands off" approach. 

Some people only post when they have something to say. Strange concept I know.

So what is the definition of having something to say?

Are we only allowed to post a message that adds to jazz scholarship in general?

I used to think this was a place where we could just shoot the breeze. To tell the truth, all these comments on junk posts, etc... have taken a lot of the fun out of this place for me. I no longer post in reply. I used to do so because I know how much it stinks to post something cool and feel like it was ignored.

I know that "stupid questions" thread was annoying to many, but to those participating, it was a lot of fun. Maybe this place has been sour at times because the good-natured fun has been discouraged around here.

I guess I better go write a thesis so I can post something worthwhile here. I'd hate to see an Organissimo forums get together. Would we just stand around and only utter profundities, or would we just be cool and talk about the weather or our kids, etc... These are the kinds of things that build goodwill towards each other.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I really hate this attitude. I live with enough rules in my real life. Maybe we could have a thread or section of the forum for those of us who (as some believe here) are junk posters. That way, the intellectuals won't have to deal with those of us who are beneath them.

I'm off to work on my next post. It will be about the morning of April 14, 1965 and what type of toothpaste Lee Morgan used. Most biographers believe it was Crest, but I have an alternate theory. There seems to have been a shift in his sound and I attribute it to a different toothpaste. You know how a fresh mouth makes you feel...

Jeff, I think you are reading way too much into my initial post. Tough day?

I was really replying to something that has become a consistant theme around here. I'm just tired of feeling there's supposed to be a post ettiquite around here.

I'm sorry if I offended you at all. :rsmile:

[Free For All]

I'm just tired of feeling there's supposed to be a post ettiquite around here.

If there is, I'm screwed.

[andybleaden]

Che,

you are a slimeball and a pest. You post too much uninformed and lazy crap and it takes you three posts in a row at that. Then you proceed to suck up to long standing board members by singing their praise. I have no doubt that that is what they teach you in psych school, but it really rubs the wrong way, not just with me.

Plus, you got off on a *really* bad start with your anti-semitism. Those posts rang really deep with some people around here and I think you will *never* make up for that with some. Blame them, but they will blame you and will have much more of a right to do so. If you cannot fathom that, you are the stupid one, I am sorry to say. BTW and on that account, I still only have a hearty fuck you for you.

That was a real stupid move.

Carry on as you see fit.

couw

Is this really necessary ?

Have we not been through this?

What is the point?

Why do you write this?

Why the bad language?

All questions I fail to understand , I really do.

Give us a break please and spare us from another frankly quite boring episode of insult tennis

I am away from this for a week or so and look forward to some fresh stuff when I return because quite franky this is getting boring and tedious

[king ubu]

The point is that a few regulars have been offended on the board, a couple of weeks back, and the large part of the crowd reacted by stating that the ones that have taken insult should "chill out" and ignore the turds being thrown at them. This has been taken - again by some, I'm not stressing my own case here - as a sign that the atmosphere has been getting rougher (at least for those who did notice) and that obviously some problems are not being dealt with here. And that again has made this place a lot less comfortable, again for some.

And one more point I want to stress is that those of us who have been offended or taken offense have often contributed a lot to the positive vibes of this board.

[catesta]

And one more point I want to stress is that those of us who have been offended or taken offense have often contributed a lot to the positive vibes of this board.

So true.

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm a bit ambivalent about all this, because I see this whole thing in shades of gray, on all sides. Though maybe my judgment is clouded a bit by the fact that I still haven't yet seen the original anti-Semitic incident (update: king ubu has sent me a PM with the link). But enough people were offended (people with opinions I respect around here), that I don't have a lot of doubt about the criticisms of Che's specific anti-Semitic opinion in that one thread.

From my own personal observations, I find Che to be a perplexing character. He often contributes in fairly productive ways (or benign, at worst) -- though he is a little heavy-handed with the multiple postings in rapid succession within the same thread. But then at other times, he does seem to really want to stir the pot around here -- something that has definitely bothered me too, as I think it has many of us. Che is still relatively new here, and he sometimes appears to have a strong agenda of some sort. Or, at the very least, he has had LOTS of strong ideas about how this board "should be" vs. how it "has become" --- which ordinarily wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact he hasn't really been here for all that long.

• Che, you've demonstrated some ability to be a productive member of this board, and probably a majority of your posts support this. (And I genuinely appreciate some of your contributions to the board, particularly those that are jazz-related.) But, IMHO, there have also been a good handful of incidents where I and some others think you've been a serious troublemaker. My advice would be to chill out, and avoid the urge to act like a bull in a china shop. That kind of occasional behavior is maybe better tolerated from old-timers (who are more easily given the benefit of the doubt), but is otherwise rightly looked at with much suspicion when it comes from a relative newbie. A double-standard, perhaps. But in cyberspace, all one has to go on is the past experience of interacting with someone -- and absent that track record, the bar is set higher (by default).
  
  And cut the crap with the anti-Semitic stuff (which I assuming did happen, at least to some degree). And tt wouldn't hurt to attempt some statement of reconciliation about the matter. Maybe the reaction to your statements was somewhat out of line, but maybe your original statements were out of line too – something to think about. And until you demonstrate at least some measure of contrition about the incident, it will probably haunt you on this board from now until doomsday. (That's meant to be some friendly advice, and I'm not specifically taking sides at this point, because I still haven't seen the original discussion that fuels this negative opinion of you. But I can't help but think that where there's smoke, there's usually fire.)
  
  =====
  
  Couw, I agree with most of the content of your post (up above) that was highly critical of Che, though maybe not to quite the same degree. I do disagree with the tone of your post, which I don't feel is being helpful to the situation. Then again, I never have (yet) seen the anti-Semitic stuff from Che, so I suspect that's probably driving a lot of this. And depending on that content, you might well be acting absolutely appropriately.
  

And everybody, let's all chill out about things, and figure out how to get past this without another pseudo board-implosion like last week (or was that the week before?). That was some of the craziest shit I've ever seen on any board, and how we allowed ourselves to go there - I'll never understand. Lets all be civil, and not fuel the fire. Thanks!!

Edited April 1, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[king ubu]

Rooster: PM sent!

[Bright Moments]

"I am rather inclined to silence, and whether that be wise or not, it is at least more unusual nowadays to find a man who can hold his tongue than to find one who cannot." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Remarks at the Monogahela House" (February 14, 1861), p. 209.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Abraham Lincoln

[Guest che]

Hi.

Some very interesting and thoughtful posts in this thread, and some equally thoughtful PM's to me, and I am genuine in my appreciation of those that have taken the time to write to me.

In my view one or two people seem to be able to say whatever they want, in whatever tone they want to say it in and there appear to be little or no consequences. Now maybe this is because they have been on the board a few years, or maybe there are other reasons why this is?, either way that is the way I see it. We all see things differently, but I have never responded with the level of abuse, that Couw and one or two others have show to me.

I am not that concerned so much about that, in so much as it happens in life, and in my line of work I am fairly used to some people behaving in this way. And people are right I tend to ignore these people and move on. But I wonder what would have happened if I had sent the post that couw sent?

One person does not have any more right to be offended than anyone else, just because they have been here a short time, or you don't like their particular ideology. The key for me is to try and understand why people think and act the way they do. This is not easy for some people, and some may never do it, but unless you try you will always have conflict.

Now I have considerd all kinds of possibilities as to why this small but vocal group behave this way. Could it be that I have 'public' face of 'Che', who to some was a hero and others a murderer? Well if this is the case then maybe people need to move beyond this, and find out what I think about Che, about life and maybe jazz? Try and see beyond the face, beyond the label or beyond the many posts!

Could it be that I post a lot of posts? Well I was not aware that there was a limit, and I wonder what harm is being done here? These things have a way of working themselves out, and posters slow down and speed up. But this is a discussion board and people are free not to respond or to respond.

Could it be that some people think I am anti-simetic? Well it is clear that some people do think this, and unless they attempt to find out what my actual thoughts are they will never know. Some of you have taken the time to find out this, and when I get the time I will answer more fully your questions. I do not intend to discuss this in this thread, and suggest that you send me a private message. I see it more a case of interpretation of what I and some others have said on these issues.

Now there may be other reason why some people will not want me to post, or want me to leave the board, and again if you want to talk with me in private you are more than welcome.

Finally I do not intend to leave this board, because one or two people do not like what I say or feel I post too much. I have done more than most to try and help us all get back on track. Of course like many things in life, the good work people do is done is silence or in private and in not recognised. I guess that is the way things are sometimes.

Thanks for reading this far.

Andrew aka 'Che'

[catesta]

Could it be that some people think I am anti-simetic? Well it is clear that some people do think this, and unless they attempt to find out what my actual thoughts are they will never know. Some of you have taken the time to find out this, and when I get the time I will answer more fully your questions.

When you have more time!

It seems you could have easily answered a question about whether or not you are anti-simetic in the time it took you to write this post.

[AfricaBrass]

The point is that a few regulars have been offended on the board, a couple of weeks back, and the large part of the crowd reacted by stating that the ones that have taken insult should "chill out" and ignore the turds being thrown at them. This has been taken - again by some, I'm not stressing my own case here - as a sign that the atmosphere has been getting rougher (at least for those who did notice) and that obviously some problems are not being dealt with here. And that again has made this place a lot less comfortable, again for some.

And one more point I want to stress is that those of us who have been offended or taken offense have often contributed a lot to the positive vibes of this board.

Firstly, I seriously DIG Couw and Catesta. You are both people I like and respect. I'm at a loss about what to say on this one because I have so much goodwill towards you.

I'm sorry that anyone was offended by the idea of "chilling out". I really never meant it that way. I only thought we needed to work out the issues between ourselves. I just know unresolved anger helps no one. I NEVER meant to make light of someone's feelings about this.

I haven't even read through that Israel thread. I really don't want to. I appreciate anyone who's trying to improve the situation there. That's my attitude on it. Since I can't do anything about it, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

I figure there's been enough "turd slinging" by now that whatever Che said in that thread has been equalled in offense by all the "fuck you's" directed to him after the fact. There have been threads about how awful a person he is. That's pretty insulting. So, his initial offense may be been great, but the continued offense by those offended is probably just as bad by now. This is how wars get started. Like I've said before, if you have a problem with the guy, send him a PM and tell him how much he hurt your feelings. Honestly, do any of you feel better being filled with contempt/hatred for this guy? I miss the good times around here with you guys.

I agree that he brought much of this on himself, but I do believe he has tried to play nice around here. I hope there's room for grace towards him.

I'm not taking sides. I don't play that game.

[Jazz Kat]

You just said what I been wanting to but didnt either have the guts or know how to put it into words. good job!

[wesbed]

The point is that a few regulars have been offended on the board, a couple of weeks back, and the large part of the crowd reacted by stating that the ones that have taken insult should "chill out" and ignore the turds being thrown at them. This has been taken - again by some, I'm not stressing my own case here - as a sign that the atmosphere has been getting rougher (at least for those who did notice) and that obviously some problems are not being dealt with here.

Bully.

[AfricaBrass]

The point is that a few regulars have been offended on the board, a couple of weeks back, and the large part of the crowd reacted by stating that the ones that have taken insult should "chill out" and ignore the turds being thrown at them. This has been taken - again by some, I'm not stressing my own case here - as a sign that the atmosphere has been getting rougher (at least for those who did notice) and that obviously some problems are not being dealt with here.

Bully.

Please don't go there, Wes!

Ubu,

I really appreciate your post on this. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you and those who have been hurt. I have enjoyed this board because of all of you. I really hope we can find a way to come back together and make this place a hoot again.

[king ubu]

The point is that a few regulars have been offended on the board, a couple of weeks back, and the large part of the crowd reacted by stating that the ones that have taken insult should "chill out" and ignore the turds being thrown at them. This has been taken - again by some, I'm not stressing my own case here - as a sign that the atmosphere has been getting rougher (at least for those who did notice) and that obviously some problems are not being dealt with here.

Bully.

[Jazzmoose]

Hey guys, I know it's easy to say this now, but this things usually work out in the end, you know? It takes a little patience, and for a while, you or your friends get shit on, but the thing to remember is that people like this never last for long. And the only know method for defeating an internet troll is to ignore them. If anyone finds another method that works, great, but for now that's it.

And if anyone really thinks that the "chill out" and/or silence from other posters was an endorsement of the irritant over them, then they really are underestimating and insulting the rest of us. Heck, I did that myself before with a certain SACD lover. I argued and stormed and fretted, and in the end I finally realized "hell, everyone else knows he's an asshole just as well as I do; why am I trying to prove it?"

[7/4]

Hey guys, I know it's easy to say this now, but this things usually work out in the end, you know? It takes a little patience, and for a while, you or your friends get shit on, but the thing to remember is that people like this never last for long. And the only know method for defeating an internet troll is to ignore them. If anyone finds another method that works, great, but for now that's it.

Yez, I thought he'd burn himself off the board in the end.

[ghost of miles]

I figure there's been enough "turd slinging" by now that whatever Che said in that thread has been equalled in offense by all the "fuck you's" directed to him after the fact. There have been threads about how awful a person he is. That's pretty insulting. So, his initial offense may be been great, but the continued offense by those offended is probably just as bad by now. This is how wars get started. Like I've said before, if you have a problem with the guy, send him a PM and tell him how much he hurt your feelings. Honestly, do any of you feel better being filled with contempt/hatred for this guy? I miss the good times around here with you guys.

I agree that he brought much of this on himself, but I do believe he has tried to play nice around here. I hope there's room for grace towards him.

I'm not taking sides. I don't play that game.

No kidding. Kudos to Jim and Use3D for not banning somebody simply b/c he annoyed a number of posters. His voluntary departure will hopefully help us to put this whole ugly episode behind us... I've never seen so much abusive invective thrown at a poster before on a jazz board. Some of it from people I really like and respect.