Michael Fitzgerald Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Bruyninckx (and Lord) list an unissued session by Dewey Redman taking place on December 19, 1969 - titles include Look For The Black Star, previously recorded for Fontana (1966); and Innerconnection and PS, both later recorded for Impulse (1973). Final tune is Apple-itis, not recorded elsewhere as far as I can tell. Can't determine composer either. Now, the situation is: this session is NOT listed in either edition of the Cuscuna/Ruppli Blue Note book. The BN session listed for that date is Lonnie Smith (also unissued). Anyone know anything on this Dewey Redman thing? Where did this rumor start? Is there any substance to it? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) Although I've never heard it myself (seriously), I understand this date (below) is out there in some trading circles... Redman, Dewey 12/19/69 Record Plant, NYC 60 min Dewey Redman (as, mussette) Chris Capers (tp) Bob Cunningham (b) Ed Blackwell (d) Radhied Ali (d) Eddie Moore (d) Unreleased Blue Note recording session. When I first noticed it (I was looking for unreleased stuff from the late 60's at the time), and of course I looked it up in the most recent Cuscuna/Ruppli discography, and saw nothing about it -- so my assumption was that it probably had nothing to do with BN. No idea if the line-up is accurate, though I don't have any specific reason to doubt it. Like I said, I've never heard the date personally -- though I suspect someone around here may have. Edited January 17, 2005 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) It's a case of another error perpetuating itself uncorrected over the years. I asked Michael Cuscuna about it a few years ago, and it is definitely NOT a Blue Note session. He suggested that it might have been recorded for Clifford Jordan's label, and to ask Clifford's widow, Sandy, about it. I did meet her years later, and I asked her about it, but she did not know anything about it (or she didn't get back to me, I forget which it was). I started investigating this, then dropped it without really reaching a resolution. I also got mixed up when speaking with Cuscuna - I thought the label in question was Strata East, but I remembered later that that was Tolliver and Cowell's label. I'm not sure which label Cuscuna was referring to, but he definitely mentioned Sandy Jordan. I asked Tolliver about it, and he adamantly denied that Strata East would have ever recorded Redman - he even seemed taken aback by the suggestion (I guess he mentally lumps Redman in with the 'avant-garde', which is a gross over-simplification in my view). This needs to be resolved once and for all. Perhaps I will ask Cuscuna again. There were also some supplementary tracks from the BlackStar session, but Cuscuna said he thought these were trio tracks (without Redman). One thing that definitely points to the existence of this session is that there are TWO copyright deposits for 'Look For The Black Star', 'PS", and 'Innerconnection', something that puzzled me at first until I found about about this mystery session(don't have the copyright dates handy - I haven't entered them in the database yet). Curiously, I found nothing for 'Apple-itis' under Redman's name (I never did check for other possible composers). Perhaps this is a group improvisation. Bertrand. Edited January 17, 2005 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Could the "Clifford Jordan label" in question possibly be the enigmatic Frontier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 I actually have a copy of it in my desk drawer. I received it in a trade a few months ago, but have yet to listen to it. I don't know anything about the accuracy (inaccuracy?) of the discographical information, but I am hoping the music is good. Think I will pull it out and give it a listen in the next couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) I'm curious about Chris Capers, the trumpeter on this session. Not a name I'd ever heard of before this. A quick AMG lookup (yeah, I know, it's probably incomplete, or worse), says he played on the following dates... 1965 Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Vol. 1 Sun Ra Trumpet 1965 Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Vol. 2 Sun Ra Trumpet 1966 Magic City Sun Ra Percussion, Trumpet 1976 Live at Montreux Sun Ra and His Arkestra Trumpet 1975 Rhythmatism Steve Reid Trumpet, Guest Appearance 1962-70 Holy Ghost: Rare & Unissued Recordings Albert Ayler Trumpet Maybe some other dates too, I'm guessing. (Anybody got any others to report??) Hey relyles, if you get the chance to spin this - could you let us know how Capers is on the date, and if he gets much solo space?? Thanks!!! Edited January 17, 2005 by Rooster_Ties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) Bruyninckx (and Lord) list an unissued session by Dewey Redman taking place on December 19, 1969 - titles include Look For The Black Star, previously recorded for Fontana (1966); and Innerconnection and PS, both later recorded for Impulse (1973). Final tune is Apple-itis, not recorded elsewhere as far as I can tell. Can't determine composer either. Now, the situation is: this session is NOT listed in either edition of the Cuscuna/Ruppli Blue Note book. The BN session listed for that date is Lonnie Smith (also unissued). Anyone know anything on this Dewey Redman thing? Where did this rumor start? Is there any substance to it? Mike Hey guys: I came upon this thread a little late it seems, but I've got good news. I have a large treasure trove of private stuff on open reel tape (ask Dan Gould), most of which I have catalogued into an Excel spreadsheet. All of it was collected in my single days i.e., between 1970 and '84 when I traded tapes with a lot of people from all over. Somehow I didn't catalog this session perhaps because it was not a concert, rather an unreleased recording session. To get to the point, I do have this session. Date as noted is correct, but don't know the label as all I have in my notes are "unreleased recording session". Not sure if it's all of it but I do have 4 cuts: Personnel: Dewey Redman, Chris Capers, Bob Cunningham, Rashied Ali, Ed Blackwell and Eddie Moore. (Not sure since the latter 3 names are all drummers that they all play on each of the cuts, more likely they substitute for each other during the session). Titles: "Interconnection " (take 2), "P.S." (take 1), "Look for the Blackstar" and "Appleitis". Now I can probably transfer it to cassette but I would like to transfer it to CD-R. If Lon's reading this, maybe it's time for me to get the HHB burner because I don't think I have the patience (at this point in my life) to hook up an open reel deck to a PC and then navigate through Goldmine software. Caveat: A few of my open reel tapes have begun to squeal, making them inaudible. Let's hope this is not one of them. Martin Edited January 17, 2005 by MartyJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 For a single session, I could do the transfer, Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyJazz Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) I'm curious about Chris Capers, the trumpeter on this session. Not a name I'd ever heard of before this. A quick AMG lookup (yeah, I know, it's probably incomplete, or worse), says he played on the following dates... 1965 Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Vol. 1 Sun Ra Trumpet 1965 Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Vol. 2 Sun Ra Trumpet 1966 Magic City Sun Ra Percussion, Trumpet 1976 Live at Montreux Sun Ra and His Arkestra Trumpet 1975 Rhythmatism Steve Reid Trumpet, Guest Appearance 1962-70 Holy Ghost: Rare & Unissued Recordings Albert Ayler Trumpet Maybe some other dates too, I'm guessing. (Anybody got any others to report??) Hey relyles, if you get the chance to spin this - could you let us know how Capers is on the date, and if he gets much solo space?? Thanks!!! Regarding Chris Capers, in addition to the Dec '69 recording session discussed above, I have a private tape of a Dewey Redman led group that includes CC: Location: Washington Square Church, NYC Date: 21 March 1971 Personnel: Dewey Redman, Chris Capers, Leroy Jenkins, Richard Davis and Eddie Moore. Titles: unknown title, "Landing on the Sun What" Guess I'll transfer this along with the '69 session (eventually). Edited January 17, 2005 by MartyJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Personnel: Dewey Redman, Chris Capers, Bob Cunningham, Rashied Ali, Ed Blackwell and Eddie Moore. (Not sure since the latter 3 names are all drummers that they all play on each of the cuts, more likely they substitute for each other during the session). I am listening to the first track right now. Sounds like it could be multiple drummers - but I could also be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Interesting thread — I'm curious to follow along on what label the session was made for. Now I'm going to have to spin The Ear of the Behearer, probably my favorite Redman session (from those I've heard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted January 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Chris Capers came back to play with Sun Ra - in the early 1990s he was playing soprano saxophone (as well as trumpet or flugelhorn) with the Arkestra. I recall speaking with him about this. He started off on saxophone before he became a trumpeter, actually. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Any possibility that this was a Frontier session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdd Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Didn't Clifford Jordan have his own series for Strata East? The Dolphy series or something like that? Maybe it was intended for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Any new information on this? Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 I could believe it as a Dolphy Series date. I want to hear it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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