Rooster_Ties

Finally, a WOODY SHAW thread...

237 posts in this topic

A nice one indeed.

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1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

A nice one indeed.

Yes, and no. Too many Monk tunes for my taste. Blasphemy, I suppose, but that’s my take.

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Hey, we're all different. Monk is always alright for me, and Geri doing Monk is interesting in its own way. I wonder if this was originally intended to be a "plays Monk" album. (I haven't looked at the liner notes in over a decade or more).

Edited by jazzbo

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I'm pretty much with Rooster.  When I want to hear Monk, I want to hear him played by Monk.  Doesn't sound quite right to me without his unique presence, with the exception of Eric Dolphy's "Epistrophy" from 'Last Date' (and Dolphy was also a unique presence, both he and Monk were not like the other kids).  Strictly subjective, no objective value judgments intended.  I know something like Waldron/Lacy playing Monk is probably technically superior to Monk himself, but it's tangibly different for me.

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"Bemsha Swing" was never a Blue Note project. It was just a gig at Baker's Keyboard Lounge in Detroit pairing Woody with a local trio that Roy Brooks put together. Roy was the cat who made the gig happen and he had it recorded. A decade later he was able to sell the the tapes to Blue Note with MIchael Cuscuna the key figure in producing them for release. 

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I know that much. I just wonder about the predominance of Monk material. . . was this just "common knowledge"--we'll play these tunes because we know these Monk tunes, or was it a current emphasis of Allen's. . . or was the outing viewed as some sort of tribute. . . or was it just coincidence that there were so many Monk compositions featured in these performances.

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30 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

I know that much. I just wonder about the predominance of Monk material. . . was this just "common knowledge"--we'll play these tunes because we know these Monk tunes, or was it a current emphasis of Allen's. . . or was the outing viewed as some sort of tribute. . . or was it just coincidence that there were so many Monk compositions featured in these performances.

Roy was deeply into Monk -- it was Roy who originally turned Geri onto Monk in the first place -- so the impetus to play Monk started with him and then it was a matter of finding out what common tunes by Monk the group knew and which ones Woody wanted to play. Not a conscious tribute.

Coda: Geri told me it was Roy who pushed her to learn Monk's language and be able to use it when she played Monk's songs on gigs with the drummer. She also told me a story about how he once lit into her when she was still a student at Howard for straying too far from Monk when she began to be influenced by other players and ideas like Herbie Hancock. This was all in a larger context of her coming to terms with various mentors -- and those mentors coming to terms with the fact that each wasn't the only one with an impact on her.

Edited by Mark Stryker

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Thanks!

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2 hours ago, felser said:

When I want to hear Monk, I want to hear him played by Monk.  Doesn't sound quite right to me without his unique presence.

Not sure what it is with me and Monk. I like Monk (playing Monk) as far as it goes, but the Monk section of my collection is pretty thin I have to confess.

There was a piano-less quartet in Kansas City when I lived there (Ornette-instrumentation, the Gerald Spaits Quartet), and they played Monk (along with Mingus, and some Ornette too) a LOT, and I liked them (their piano-less Monk). But otherwise, I’ve never been super-fond of hearing Monk in clubs.

I’d venture that other than Bird tunes, I’ve probably heard Monk played in clubs (in my 17 years KC) more than any other composer - and in both cases, I got a little burned out on both.

So yeah, Monk-less Monk usually gets kinda old for me (unless it’s piano-less, or something that brings some kind of new angle to it)...

...and best as I’m recalling, Woody Shaw doing all these Monk tunes didn’t specifically push my “Woody Shaw” buttons anywhere near as much as plenty of other Woody Shaw typically does.

But Woody’s other 1987 live album, In My Own Sweet Way, on the other hand, is PRIMO Woody Shaw in my book - and one of Woody’s finest hours, imho. (And Bemsha Swing was from just a year earlier, in 1986.)

All imho, of course.

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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1 hour ago, Mark Stryker said:

Roy was deeply into Monk -- it was Roy who originally turned Geri onto Monk in the first place -- so the impetus to play Monk started with him and then it was a matter of finding out what common tunes by Monk the group knew and which ones Woody wanted to play. Not a conscious tribute.

Coda: Geri told me it was Roy who pushed her to learn Monk's language and be able to use it when she played Monk's songs on gigs with the drummer. She also told me a story about how he once lit into her when she was still a student at Howard for straying too far from Monk when she began to be influenced by other players and ideas like Herbie Hancock. This was all in a larger context of her coming to terms with various mentors -- and those mentors coming to terms with the fact that each wasn't the only one with an impact on her.

Fascinating background to all of this, Mark--thanks so much.  I'll have to take that Baker's set out for a fresh listen... I remember being excited about it when it came out and playing it several times (including on my old WFHB radio show), but it's been a long time... though maybe I had it out for one of your Btown visits?  

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This one is just wonderful. That´s the great quintet I saw live, with Steve Turré , Mulgrew Miller, Stafford James and Tony Reedus. 

Wonderful compositions ! 

Download (3).jpg

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Blue Note has re-released Woody Shaw's Bemsha Swing digitally.  It is on Spotify and Apple music if you stream.  It can be downloaded in FLAC at Presto Jazz.
 
 
Blue Note Records
 
@bluenoterecords
· Oct 1
Now Available Digitally: #WoodyShaw "Bemsha Swing"—A 1986 live recording featuring the great trumpeter with Geri Allen (piano), Bob Hurst (bass) & Roy Brooks (drums) at Baker's Keyboard Lounge in Detroit. Hear "In a Capricornian Way" on #TheBlueNoteMonthly https://bluenote.lnk.to/BlueNoteMonthly

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1 hour ago, sonnyhill said:
Blue Note has re-released Woody Shaw's Bemsha Swing digitally.  It is on Spotify and Apple music if you stream.  It can be downloaded in FLAC at Presto Jazz.
 
 
Blue Note Records
 
@bluenoterecords
· Oct 1
Now Available Digitally: #WoodyShaw "Bemsha Swing"—A 1986 live recording featuring the great trumpeter with Geri Allen (piano), Bob Hurst (bass) & Roy Brooks (drums) at Baker's Keyboard Lounge in Detroit. Hear "In a Capricornian Way" on #TheBlueNoteMonthly https://bluenote.lnk.to/BlueNoteMonthly

Thanks ! :tup

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On 15.5.2020 at 10:11 PM, jazzbo said:

I know that much. I just wonder about the predominance of Monk material. . . was this just "common knowledge"--we'll play these tunes because we know these Monk tunes, or was it a current emphasis of Allen's. . . or was the outing viewed as some sort of tribute. . . or was it just coincidence that there were so many Monk compositions featured in these performances.

Well Woody sounds great on those Monk tunes, he could Play everything, but I think as Long as he could afford to have his own Group he played his own Music and Maybe it was quite frustrating for him the Play as a single and Play what is called "common Knowledge".

I saw Woody Shaw twice: The first time with that great Group with Mulgrew Miller and Steve Turré , and then Five years later only him with some locals, but it was hard for me to believe it´s the same musician…...

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6 hours ago, Hardbopjazz said:

Here's a new one on Blue Note. 

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can´t see the pic ! 

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Scanned this thread and didn't see any mention of this session, which I somehow just heard about a few days ago:

"Just a month after Unity, Shaw returned as a leader—with Young and Joe Henderson—to Rudy Van Gelder’s studio under the auspices of Alfred Lion. The sessions never came out on Blue Note, but appeared much later on Muse as In the Beginning. Producer Michael Cuscuna told me, “Alfred gave the tapes back to Woody when Blue Note was about to be sold to Liberty Records. Woody told me about the tapes, and we finally sold them to Joe Fields in the late ’70s after Woody had signed with Columbia.” 

Seems in retrospect a great shame Cuscuna didn't hold on to these to release on Blue Note. I will absolutely have to track this one down in one form or another.

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27 minutes ago, colinmce said:

Scanned this thread and didn't see any mention of this session, which I somehow just heard about a few days ago:

"Just a month after Unity, Shaw returned as a leader—with Young and Joe Henderson—to Rudy Van Gelder’s studio under the auspices of Alfred Lion. The sessions never came out on Blue Note, but appeared much later on Muse as In the Beginning. Producer Michael Cuscuna told me, “Alfred gave the tapes back to Woody when Blue Note was about to be sold to Liberty Records. Woody told me about the tapes, and we finally sold them to Joe Fields in the late ’70s after Woody had signed with Columbia.” 

Seems in retrospect a great shame Cuscuna didn't hold on to these to release on Blue Note. I will absolutely have to track this one down in one form or another.

It's in the Complete Muse Mosaic set.

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8 minutes ago, kh1958 said:

It's in the Complete Muse Mosaic set.

Also released individually as In The Beginning (aka Cassandranite).

https://www.discogs.com/master/view/795216

The season is also on disc one of this 32Jazz reissue (paired with Love Dance on disc two)

https://www.discogs.com/Woody-Shaw-Last-of-the-Line-Cassandranite-Love-Dance/release/8379955

NOTE: Most of these also include a 6th track (“Medina”) which isn’t from the 1965 session. “Medina” is from a 1971 Joe Chambers leader-date (Almoravid), that includes Woody — but that track is entirely unrelated to the 1965 session (which is only 5 tracks long), FYI.

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Cassandranite is pretty hard to find but almost the entire session is collected in the 32Jazz  2cd-compilation Dark Journey which is not so rare. The tracks included there are:

 

2-3 Tetragon

2-4 Baloo Baloo

2-5 Cassandranite

2-6 Obsequious

 

Hence, only 'Three Muses' is missing from the original 1965-session. I remain on the lookout for an affordable copy of the Muse-cd but until I find it, this offers some consolation.

 

Edited by Mark13

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Yeah that's the problem, none of the options containing the full session are exactly cheap. But good to have it on the radar.

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12 hours ago, Gheorghe said:

can´t see the pic ! 

How about now?

120326037_10159241914450639_183224438031

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Why is that new? :)

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988a91bead3f55417c1735ad493ea5ac.jpg
Stumbled upon this great photo.

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3 hours ago, colinmce said:

Yeah that's the problem, none of the options containing the full session are exactly cheap. But good to have it on the radar.

Set up a few different automated eBay searches, one on “woody shaw beginning”, one on “woody shaw “cassandranite”, and another  one on “woody shaw last line” - and be patient.
 

Then use an auto-bid ‘snipe’ service like auctionstealer.com (which gives 3 free bids per month, iirc)...

... And inside of 6 months, you’ll have one for less than $25 I’m betting, maybe even closer to $20.

Dusty Groove also has a similar auto-search function too.

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