I can no longer trust new USA vinyl production....

[Daniel A]

J.A.W. is the kind of participants we need here!

I agree wholeheartedly.

[mikeweil]

Some never grow up ... and drive away the most valuable particpants!

Edited November 17, 2007 by mikeweil

[Daniel A]

So it is indeed.

(But I just want to add that I don't find any particularly offensive posts in this thread, though)

[porcy62]

Some never grow up ... and drive away the most valuable particpants!

The adulthood involves the fact that you're able to deal with critics and with harsh judgements, mocking, even unpolitness and personal insults. In this forum there had been nasty arguings, people loosing temper and tooked things personally...and tons of public apologizes. Some left, some stayed. One of the plus of Big O is that is a free speech forum, let's face it. If you prefer something more polite and clean like a Gentleman's Club of the XIX century, well, go to SH forum.

...and now you can move the whole thread in the Political Forum, the no men's land of "politically correctness".

[mikeweil]

Yeah, but .....

[porcy62]

Yeah, but .....

But what? This is surely a safer and more polite place then any Charles Mingus' ensembles.

Edited November 17, 2007 by porcy62

[AllenLowe]

personally I go for poopee doodoo -

or feel - wait, moderators, can I say I say "feel" here?

Edited November 22, 2007 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

"I've had enough of this and I'm out of here. "

now, recently, Couw said this on a thread where he was mad at me - my question is, is there some room where all of these ex-Organissimo-ites are locked up in? where do they go when they're "outta here" ? I imagine it as a small auditorium where the PA keeps playing Najee -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'd just like to say that I've no interest in the topic under discussion, viz expensive audiophile pressings, so here goes.

"I've no interest in the topic under discusion, viz expensive audiophile pressings."

There, that made me feel a lot better.

MG

[grrrshon]

90% of the females in that age range are saying cunt non-stop.

Well, my wife's favorite expletive is "that's cunt-tastic".

[six string]

90% of the females in that age range are saying cunt non-stop.

Well, my wife's favorite expletive is "that's cunt-tastic".

Can I use that one too?

[Chuck Nessa]

90% of the females in that age range are saying cunt non-stop.

Well, my wife's favorite expletive is "that's cunt-tastic".

Can I use that one too?

Yes, if you are somebody's wife.

[Christiern]

J.A.W. has a point when he advocates obeying forum rules, I just think the board in question--which I frequent--is a bit hard-handed at time. Clearly part of the reason is that Steve is out there, making a living in the recording business, so it would behoove him to not offend clients (or potential ones). Understandable as that may be, it still stifles freedom of expression.

That said, I hope J.A.W. returns to the Big O soon.

[six string]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

[Kevin Bresnahan]

The latest Hoffman snafu was when he recently said, "I just wish people would remember that Monk played that way because he was literally going insane, not for any musical pioneering reason (at least at the end)".

What a kooky thing to think. Shows a true lack of understanding. Even his gorts seemed unable to step in and stop the negative posts against this dumb remark. It shows Hoffman's lack of Jazz listening experiences. BTW, he partly bases his opinion on the movie "Straight No Chaser". He also bases his opinions on Charlie Parker from the movie "Bird".

BTW, I find it interesting that many of the latest RTI LP pressing defects are from inattention to the test pressings. Clearly Hoffman is no Jazz fan. He's not even listening to the final product. No wonder obvious tape warbles make it through to the final product.

I was thinking about picking up the upcoming 45 rpm version of "Soul Station", but I think I'll save myself the aggravation.

[porcy62]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

[six string]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

That's all fine with me except the part where he and his gorts sqash any negativity towards Steve and his work because it's against the forum's policies.

[J.A.W.]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

That's all fine with me except the part where he and his gorts sqash any negativity towards Steve and his work because it's against the forum's policies.

(Happened to see this post and thought I'd reply)

No, it's because they feel that negativity towards Steve Hoffman and his work can harm his business interests and threaten his livelihood as a result. Please note that this is not what I think, it's how Steve Hoffman and the gorts at his forum see it.

I don't think Jim would take it kindly if members would post anything negative here about him, his playing and his band - such negativity would certainly not bring in more dates, would it...

Edited November 26, 2007 by J.A.W.

[Christiern]

I don't think Jim would take it kindly if members would post anything negative here about him, his playing and his band - such negativity would certainly not bring in more dates, would it...

One can never be sure...

[porcy62]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

That's all fine with me except the part where he and his gorts sqash any negativity towards Steve and his work because it's against the forum's policies.

(Happened to see this post and thought I'd reply)

No, it's because they feel that negativity towards Steve Hoffman and his work can harm his business interests and threaten his livelihood as a result. Please note that this is not what I think, it's how Steve Hoffman and the gorts at his forum see it.

I don't think Jim would take it kindly if members would post anything negative here about him, his playing and his band - such negativity would certainly not bring in more dates, would it...

Sorry, J.A.W. but you asked for it.

From my point of view, running up a forum in order to promote your work is absolutely legal and legit. Deleting 'negative' posts or critics is absolutely legal, though not very 'elegant' (but, hey it's THE RULE, if you don't like it post elsewhere). Denigrating your competitor's work, aka RVG or Bernie Grundmann or anyonelse, is frankly disgusting and I am not sure it's absolutely legal. I mean everytime all the SH's gorts jump at the throat of every other remastering engineers, a part Mr. Hoffman, they are threating their livelihoods. If I were a competitor of SH I probably could sue his gorts and mr. H. for slander and damage.

About Jim and Organissimo.

First have a look at this thread: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=33019

Second I don't think Jim would delete a post where someone said his last cd is not at the same level of Larry Young' Unity...isn't it?

[J.A.W.]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

That's all fine with me except the part where he and his gorts sqash any negativity towards Steve and his work because it's against the forum's policies.

(Happened to see this post and thought I'd reply)

No, it's because they feel that negativity towards Steve Hoffman and his work can harm his business interests and threaten his livelihood as a result. Please note that this is not what I think, it's how Steve Hoffman and the gorts at his forum see it.

I don't think Jim would take it kindly if members would post anything negative here about him, his playing and his band - such negativity would certainly not bring in more dates, would it...

Sorry, J.A.W. but you asked for it.

From my point of view, running up a forum in order to promote your work is absolutely legal and legit. Deleting 'negative' posts or critics is absolutely legal, though not very 'elegant' (but, hey it's THE RULE, if you don't like it post elsewhere). Denigrating your competitor's work, aka RVG or Bernie Grundmann or anyonelse, is frankly disgusting and I am not sure it's absolutely legal. I mean everytime all the SH's gorts jump at the throat of every other remastering engineers, a part Mr. Hoffman, they are threating their livelihoods. If I were a competitor of SH I probably could sue his gorts and mr. H. for slander and damage.

About Jim and Organissimo.

First have a look at this thread: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=33019

Second I don't think Jim would delete a post where someone said his last cd is not at the same level of Larry Young' Unity...isn't it?

Please read my posts carefully and don't put words into my mouth - I never said anything about Steve Hoffman condemning the work of other mastering engineers; as a matter of fact I don't think he should do that, but that's not the point in my posts. I was explaining why negativity towards him and his work is not tolerated on his forum, that's all.

By the way, I think the rudeness and insults in some of the previous posts do not help getting the message across and it says a lot about this forum and some of its members that offensive remarks and personal attacks are made and allowed here. It's got nothing to do with freedom of expression, it's just mud slinging, nothing else.

Edited November 27, 2007 by J.A.W.

[Peter A]

Please read my posts carefully and don't put words into my mouth - I never said anything about Steve Hoffman condemning the work of other mastering engineers; as a matter of fact I don't think he should do that, but that's not the point in my posts. I was explaining why negativity towards him and his work is not tolerated on his forum, that's all.

By the way, I think the rudeness and insults in some of the previous posts do not help getting the message across and it says a lot about this forum and some of its members that offensive remarks and personal attacks are made and allowed here. It's got nothing to do with freedom of expression, it's just mud slinging, nothing else.

Cheer up, after rereading the thread, which was actually quite funny, I didn't really come across "offensive remarks" or "personal attacks". IMO this is called "discussion".

[porcy62]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

That's all fine with me except the part where he and his gorts sqash any negativity towards Steve and his work because it's against the forum's policies.

(Happened to see this post and thought I'd reply)

No, it's because they feel that negativity towards Steve Hoffman and his work can harm his business interests and threaten his livelihood as a result. Please note that this is not what I think, it's how Steve Hoffman and the gorts at his forum see it.

I don't think Jim would take it kindly if members would post anything negative here about him, his playing and his band - such negativity would certainly not bring in more dates, would it...

Sorry, J.A.W. but you asked for it.

From my point of view, running up a forum in order to promote your work is absolutely legal and legit. Deleting 'negative' posts or critics is absolutely legal, though not very 'elegant' (but, hey it's THE RULE, if you don't like it post elsewhere). Denigrating your competitor's work, aka RVG or Bernie Grundmann or anyonelse, is frankly disgusting and I am not sure it's absolutely legal. I mean everytime all the SH's gorts jump at the throat of every other remastering engineers, a part Mr. Hoffman, they are threating their livelihoods. If I were a competitor of SH I probably could sue his gorts and mr. H. for slander and damage.

About Jim and Organissimo.

First have a look at this thread: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=33019

Second I don't think Jim would delete a post where someone said his last cd is not at the same level of Larry Young' Unity...isn't it?

Please read my posts carefully and don't put words into my mouth - I never said anything about Steve Hoffman condemning the work of other mastering engineers; as a matter of fact I don't think he should do that, but that's not the point in my posts. I was explaining why negativity towards him and his work is not tolerated on his forum, that's all.

By the way, I think the rudeness and insults in some of the previous posts do not help getting the message across and it says a lot about this forum and some of its members that offensive remarks and personal attacks are made and allowed here. It's got nothing to do with freedom of expression, it's just mud slinging, nothing else.

I didn't put words into your mouth. I express my opinion about your post and developped the issue: defending SH livelihood by his gorts in the way they often did damage other remastering engineers's reputation.

About "freedom of expression", well, Clem is Clem, Chuck is Chuck, Chris is Chris and I am me...adulthood implies you can deal with people with different opinions and writing styles. If you are offended by them, you should be able to ask for an explanation or apologizes if you think you deserve it and clear the issue without leaving. That's my opinion.

Edited November 27, 2007 by porcy62

[J.A.W.]

First of all, this is not to defend Steve Hoffman and his site. Furthermore, I am not interested in those vinyl projects and haven't read the threads/posts about them, so I can't say anything about what happened.

Steve Hoffman is working in the music business and negative or critical threads/posts can harm his interests, and that's why the moderators on the Hoffman site edit or delete anything they find inappropriate in this regard, including criticism of the various vinyl projects he was hired to do by Warner and others.

Steve gets to speak negatively about other engineer's work and that seems to be ok. That's the part I don't like. If we say something negative about Steve, we're taking food from his children's mouths. If only Steve was as concerned about these other engineers, if only.....

Well, it's part of the business as well: speaking negatively against your competitors. I mean if I remastered Soul Station and RVG did the same, speaking negatively about RVG would push my product. Welcome to the free trade.

That's all fine with me except the part where he and his gorts sqash any negativity towards Steve and his work because it's against the forum's policies.

(Happened to see this post and thought I'd reply)

No, it's because they feel that negativity towards Steve Hoffman and his work can harm his business interests and threaten his livelihood as a result. Please note that this is not what I think, it's how Steve Hoffman and the gorts at his forum see it.

I don't think Jim would take it kindly if members would post anything negative here about him, his playing and his band - such negativity would certainly not bring in more dates, would it...

Sorry, J.A.W. but you asked for it.

From my point of view, running up a forum in order to promote your work is absolutely legal and legit. Deleting 'negative' posts or critics is absolutely legal, though not very 'elegant' (but, hey it's THE RULE, if you don't like it post elsewhere). Denigrating your competitor's work, aka RVG or Bernie Grundmann or anyonelse, is frankly disgusting and I am not sure it's absolutely legal. I mean everytime all the SH's gorts jump at the throat of every other remastering engineers, a part Mr. Hoffman, they are threating their livelihoods. If I were a competitor of SH I probably could sue his gorts and mr. H. for slander and damage.

About Jim and Organissimo.

First have a look at this thread: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=33019

Second I don't think Jim would delete a post where someone said his last cd is not at the same level of Larry Young' Unity...isn't it?

Please read my posts carefully and don't put words into my mouth - I never said anything about Steve Hoffman condemning the work of other mastering engineers; as a matter of fact I don't think he should do that, but that's not the point in my posts. I was explaining why negativity towards him and his work is not tolerated on his forum, that's all.

By the way, I think the rudeness and insults in some of the previous posts do not help getting the message across and it says a lot about this forum and some of its members that offensive remarks and personal attacks are made and allowed here. It's got nothing to do with freedom of expression, it's just mud slinging, nothing else.

I didn't put words into your mouth. I express my opinion about your post and developped the issue: defending SH livelihood by his gorts in the way they often did damage other remastering engineers's reputation.

About "freedom of expression", well, Clem is Clem, Chuck is Chuck, Chris is Chris and I am me...adulthood implies you can deal with people with different opinions and writing styles. If you are offended by them, you should be able to ask for an explanation or apologizes if you think you deserve it and clear the issue without leaving. That's my opinion.

You are talking about adulthood? Calling people names like you did isn't really proof of adulthood (or of civilized behaviour, for that matter) in my view and is totally unnecessary.

[J.A.W.]

Please read my posts carefully and don't put words into my mouth - I never said anything about Steve Hoffman condemning the work of other mastering engineers; as a matter of fact I don't think he should do that, but that's not the point in my posts. I was explaining why negativity towards him and his work is not tolerated on his forum, that's all.

By the way, I think the rudeness and insults in some of the previous posts do not help getting the message across and it says a lot about this forum and some of its members that offensive remarks and personal attacks are made and allowed here. It's got nothing to do with freedom of expression, it's just mud slinging, nothing else.

Cheer up, after rereading the thread, which was actually quite funny, I didn't really come across "offensive remarks" or "personal attacks". IMO this is called "discussion".

Calling people names like was done here isn't funny in my view, it's degrading and ill-mannered. Have fun with "discussions' like that, I won't be part of it anymore.

Edited November 27, 2007 by J.A.W.