Larry Kart

Ethan Iverson on "Whiplash," Buddy Rich

118 posts in this topic

Late to the party.

Judging from the trailer, this film seems like a sports movie, with jazz in the role of sports. And I do not like sports films, except for Buffalo '66, if that qualifies.

It will also probably stir up bad memories of when I was a music major. I couldn't listen to any jazz for years afterward, it was that unpleasant.

Finally, as for the claim - apparently intended for the general public - that if Buddy Rich is your favorite jazz drummer, you are a racist, most of the general public could not even name a single jazz drummer other than Buddy Rich, let alone prefer any of them to Buddy Rich.

Edited by Teasing the Korean

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OMG! I just got this POS from Netflix by mail and couldn't believe it- it was like a two hour (almost) skit by SCTV!

I was laughing at every scene- even the car accident was funny as hell. Best comedy I've seen in years.

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On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 7:45 AM, Teasing said:

Late to the party.

 

Judging from the trailer, this film seems like a sports movie, with jazz in the role of sports. And I do not like sports films, except for Buffalo '66, if that qualifies.

 

It will also probably stir up bad memories of when I was a music major. I couldn't listen to any jazz for years afterward, it was that unpleasant.

 

 


So my wife signed us up for Starz because of Ash Vs Evil Dead (good fun, btw) and I discovered Whiplash is running right now.  TTK is of course correct in calling it a sport film but  regarding his Music Major comment - what the fuck is all the homophobia in this movie?  Is this the way it is in highly competitive music programs?  "It's not like your boyfriend's dick. Don't come too quick." "OK, ladies" and a whole bunch of other ugly things said by the a-hole professor.

Is this the way it was/is or did they just transfer locker room talk from the sports movie they cribbed from into the 'jazz' movie they made?  Because it totally sounded like a football locker room rather than a music program, even a highly competitive one.

 

On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 2:27 AM, sgcim said:

OMG! I just got this POS from Netflix by mail and couldn't believe it- it was like a two hour (almost) skit by SCTV!

 

I was laughing at every scene- even the car accident was funny as hell. Best comedy I've seen in years.

 

I am glad others saw it this way too.  I laughed out loud and clapped at the moment of impact.  More high comedy when he calls the girl he cast aside because drumming is more important than sex, and he finds out she' dating someone new.  Laughed out loud at that one too.

Almost makes me wish I had paid the $10 to see it in the theater, just to know how others would have reacted if I had bust a gut at these "high drama" scenes.

I have to admit that the movie got slightly more interesting when JK Simmons' character is acting like a human being in the jazz club, explaining his approach to teaching but I just wish it had ended after he reverts to form and humiliates the little shit at Carnegie Hall.  The "triumph" at the end is just ludicrous.

In summary, two loathsome characters do not a good film make.

But if you watch it like me SGCIM did, you can still have a good time. :g

 

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Whiplash (as reviewed by a jazz musician)

 

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"Whiplash (as reviewed by a jazz musician)"

This kid is one of the reasons people don't like jazz.  He's arrogant, dismissive and all-knowing...a musical gas bag.  You know what I think.  I think anything that exposes people to the music and perhaps creates a desire to drill deeper is a good thing.

Edited by Dave James

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>anything that exposes people to the music and perhaps creates a desire to drill deeper is a good thing.

I came away from Whiplash thinking that if all modern jazz musicians come out of similar schools it's no wonder their music sounds like joyless intellectual exercises. The movie created no desire to drill deeper for me -- the opposite, in fact. 

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6 hours ago, Dave James said:

"Whiplash (as reviewed by a jazz musician)"

This kid is one of the reasons people don't like jazz.  He's arrogant, dismissive and all-knowing...a musical gas bag.  You know what I think.  I think anything that exposes people to the music and perhaps creates a desire to drill deeper is a good thing.

But he actually concludes by saying that he thought it was a great movie and really enjoyed it. I just watched the whole review (it’s definitely on the long-ish side), and found it pretty nuanced and insightful, both in its praise and in its criticism. Far better than much of the ridiculous vitriol that got flung against this film.  

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I still haven't seen the movie, might never do so, but I started listening to Buddy Rich records again (in smallish doses). That's been more fun than it used to be.

But I ain't gonna push my luck, if you know what I mean.

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1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

But he actually concludes by saying that he thought it was a great movie and really enjoyed it. I just watched the whole review (it’s definitely on the long-ish side), and found it pretty nuanced and insightful, both in its praise and in its criticism. Far better than much of the ridiculous vitriol that got flung against this film.  

Yep, I do not have any knowledge about NY jazz scene or Jazz school, BUT I came to the same conclusions when I saw the film back then: it's a brilliantly acted and directed sport movie with drums in place of ball. What I didn't like is exactly what dislikes the author of the review: jazz is a decoration, a misplaced one IMO. I mean I could set Richard III as a mobs movie because both Shakespeare and mafia are about struggle for power, revenge, betrayal, family, violence. Backlash lacks a true relationship between the plot and the music.

Edited by porcy62

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On 1/8/2020 at 10:18 PM, Captain Howdy said:

>anything that exposes people to the music and perhaps creates a desire to drill deeper is a good thing.

I came away from Whiplash thinking that if all modern jazz musicians come out of similar schools it's no wonder their music sounds like joyless intellectual exercises. The movie created no desire to drill deeper for me -- the opposite, in fact. 

You're already a jazz fan or you wouldn't be here.  

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Not looking to see what I probably said earlier in this very thread about the movie, but my wife and I saw it in a theater when I first came out, and while I most definitely appreciated the movie in terms of acting, and direction, and most of the cinema 'craft' aspects of the film -- quite frankly, I really *hated* the manipulative and overly competitive nature of practically everything as depicted in the movie.

So much so, that I would go so far as to use a term I don't think I've ever used before:  I felt "triggered" by the whole thing.  Not because I've ever been abused like that, but my deepest fears include being belittled like that incessantly, and as a kid I was bullied and teased a lot.  No where near as much as many others, but I hated it, and watching this movie brought back lots of bad and visceral feelings -- both as I was watching it, and off and off for a day or two after I'd long left the theater.

I'm sure there are people who are manipulated into (trying to) perform better in all sorts of contexts (in real life).  Most probably not as horrifically as depicted in this movie, but some as bad (or worse, I'm sure).

In any case, the whole experience left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth, and I would never recommend this movie to anyone who had any interest in it because of the music (or it being a music story).

Shame too, because the two lead actors were outstanding, and J.K. Simmons is someone I've really enjoyed in plenty of other contexts -- a lot, in fact.

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We are Farmers...

All I know is that I saw a YouTube clip where this asshole is dogging this kid, not to get him to play better, but to break him down and have his mental way with him, and then he wasn't quite getting his way so he just up and slapped the kid, and that was it for me, I said, no, this is just a movie, I have a choice whether or not I want to see more of this, and my choice is no, I don't, so no, I won't.

I don't want to see a movie where a priest character graphically fondles a kid, and I don't want to see one where a physiologically predatory band director slaps a kid.

Call me old-fashioned, I guess.

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2 hours ago, JSngry said:

I said, no, this is just a movie, I have a choice whether or not I want to see more of this, and my choice is no, I don't, so no, I won't.

I don't want to see a movie where a priest character graphically fondles a kid, and I don't want to see one where a physiologically predatory band director slaps a kid.

Call me old-fashioned, I guess.

You know, Jim, I pretty much said the same thing.  And I consistently don't go to movies that go a few places that I just don't want to go.

But the jazz fan in me said I probably ought to go, and so I did.  I'd seen the trailer only (I'm sure I must have?), but not any actual clips.  But I'm sure if I'd seen any sort of long/longer trailer, I would have had a tougher time deciding to go anyway (and yet, because of the jazz angle, I felt like I 'ought' to go).

You probably made the better call.  In retrospect, I think I'd rather I'd taken a pass on seeing it.  No big deal either way, but the movie annoyed the shit of me for a good week after I'd seen it, and on balance, I might have rather not had to mess with it.

I worked with a few Type A asshole types in some previous jobs, and I do NOT mix well with those people.  Like "bad for my health" don't mix.  And I try to avoid movies where I'm likely to have to spend the whole movie empathizing with somebody in the very kind of environment I despise being trapped in most (cuz I've been there, a tiny little bit (work-wise, early on), and I just can't function in that kinda shit).

For the record, I never had it THAT bad.  And my going on (and on?) about it here is more a reflection on my inability to deal with people like that, then any really abusive situations I was ever in.  The last time I had to deal with real bullies was back when I was 13 or 14, at this one college-prep school with a shit-ton of entitled assholes (8th & 9th grade), and the experience -- even though I didn't have it as bad as some -- really left an impression on me, even all these years later.

Edited by Rooster_Ties

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I'm usually good at maintaining a healthy but workable distance with people I find unpleasant in real life. there's a few that have irrevocably crossed one line or another that I just "cancelled" (is that how the kids say it?) but it's like, less than five, I think. I just turned 64, so that's a pretty good ratio, I think.

But a movie is not real life. In real life, sometimes dealing with shit is just the cost of doing business. But engaging in a movie is a voluntary act, period.

Besides, "Whiplash"...it's a fucking Hank Levy chart for crissakes, not even worth the musical curiosity. if you want to go to a movie to hear a non-Don Ellis penned don ellis chart, wait for somebody to put THIS in a movie:

 

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4 hours ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Not looking to see what I probably said earlier in this very thread about the movie, but my wife and I saw it in a theater when I first came out, and while I most definitely appreciated the movie in terms of acting, and direction, and most of the cinema 'craft' aspects of the film -- quite frankly, I really *hated* the manipulative and overly competitive nature of practically everything as depicted in the movie.

So much so, that I would go so far as to use a term I don't think I've ever used before:  I felt "triggered" by the whole thing.  Not because I've ever been abused like that, but my deepest fears include being belittled like that incessantly, and as a kid I was bullied and teased a lot.  No where near as much as many others, but I hated it, and watching this movie brought back lots of bad and visceral feelings -- both as I was watching it, and off and off for a day or two after I'd long left the theater.

I'm sure there are people who are manipulated into (trying to) perform better in all sorts of contexts (in real life).  Most probably not as horrifically as depicted in this movie, but some as bad (or worse, I'm sure).

In any case, the whole experience left an incredibly bad taste in my mouth, and I would never recommend this movie to anyone who had any interest in it because of the music (or it being a music story).

Shame too, because the two lead actors were outstanding, and J.K. Simmons is someone I've really enjoyed in plenty of other contexts -- a lot, in fact.

Ditto. Somewhere back in this thread I suggested seeing the very sweet Clark Terry documentary, "Keep on Keepin' On" as an antidote to the dreadful abuse in this film. And I especially agree about J. K. Simmons, who is one of my very favorite actors.

 

 

gregmo

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16 hours ago, Dave James said:

You're already a jazz fan or you wouldn't be here.  

But I seldom listen to anything recorded in the last half century.

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1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

But I seldom listen to anything recorded in the last half century.

Well, I do listen to a lot recorded in recent decades, though it's always derived from music first heard not in the last half century, but in the half century before that, which for me is the key period of jazz creativity  - the Armstrong to Ornette period, if you know what I mean. <_<

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7 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

But I seldom listen to anything recorded in the last half century.

:tup:tup:tup:tup

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