Dmitry

Blue Note's TONE POET series.

132 posts in this topic

That thread just goes on and on. I don’t have any of these records but there comes when a point where you’re letting these matters predominate over the music itself. 

This may be a stupid question but wouldn’t Rudy have had the same problems?

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1 hour ago, Brad said:

That thread just goes on and on. I don’t have any of these records but there comes when a point where you’re letting these matters predominate over the music itself. 

This may be a stupid question but wouldn’t Rudy have had the same problems?

That is the question. Ron McMaster, Wally Traugott, Larry Walsh, Malcolm Addey & Bernie Grundman too. Many people have pulled these tapes over the years. There have been many Blue Note reissues these past few decades and I can't remember too many with noticeable pitch problems. It may simply be that Kevin Gray is getting the most out of them and pulling out the bad with the good.

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so its like walking upwards up a downgoing escalator--- as time goes on we can get better tape transfers but also as time goes on the tape gets more degraded.  so what do you prefer, a compressed version of the mint tape, or a new transfer of the tape after decade of Bekins storage

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On 9/8/2019 at 6:14 PM, bresna said:

So Kevin Gray replied to a Hoffman forum member about the possibility of warbling during tape playback:

“Scotch (3M) 111 was the very first U.S. recording tape formulation produced in quantity in the U.S. It was released in 1948 and was about all there was in the U.S. until 1964. About 90 percent of the recordings I master from that period are recorded on 111. All the RVG Blue Notes from that period are on 111. It is a red/orange iron oxide basically glued to clear acetate. It bears no resemblance to modern tape.

“Acetate is very unstable over time. It becomes extremely brittle. You can pull on it slightly and it breaks. This tape never wound totally smooth on the reel, but that has also gotten much much worse over time.

“The biggest problem occurs when the tape was wound off at high speed, as opposed to being played though. This might occur when a tape was perhaps wound to the head to copy one song. Then the rest of the tape is wound off in “Fast Forward”. The result is that the tape cinches slightly and if left that way develops a permanent curl or ruffle. This is very common on 111. Once this has happened the tape does not wrap smoothly over the playback head and tends to wander slightly. This is clearly visible as the video shows. Another problem is that NONE of the recorders from the 50s and early 60s had constant tape tension, which all modern tape recorders have. The tension would be higher at the end of the reel than the beginning. This also took a toll on tape.

“The 2nd generation 3M tape was Scotch 201. Although the oxide changed (dark brown), the base was still acetate, and the same problems exist. Around 1965, 202 was released, which was on modern mylar/polyester. But RVG used both 111 and 201 for several more years.

“So the tape wandering over the heads as opposed to staying flat does introduce speed anomalies. How could it not? And it isn’t consistent from tape to tape. Some wind smoother than others. Fast winding, as mentioned before, things like temperature and humidity in storage, and age have taken a toll.

“There are other factors effecting speed, such as sticking splices. The adhesive in the splicing tape oozes with age. It can’t be cleaned off very effectively because of the brittleness of the tape.”

I haven't been following this too closely but I have a question for you guys....

Is this the same guy who went on this same thread on the Hoffman forum earlier and said he didn't hear the issue in question or that there was nothing there?

I know some engineers that would have a different opinion then this...

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8 hours ago, david weiss said:

I haven't been following this too closely but I have a question for you guys....

Is this the same guy who went on this same thread on the Hoffman forum earlier and said he didn't hear the issue in question or that there was nothing there?

I know some engineers that would have a different opinion then this...

No - Kevin Gray mastered and cut these LPs. Joe Harley is the reissue producer and he's the one who came into that thread and said it sounded fine to him and it matched what he heard on the master tape.

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15 hours ago, chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez said:

so its like walking upwards up a downgoing escalator--- as time goes on we can get better tape transfers but also as time goes on the tape gets more degraded.  so what do you prefer, a compressed version of the mint tape, or a new transfer of the tape after decade of Bekins storage

I thought digital was supposed to stop all that, you're old enough to remember that, right?

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On 9/10/2019 at 8:00 AM, bresna said:

No - Kevin Gray mastered and cut these LPs. Joe Harley is the reissue producer and he's the one who came into that thread and said it sounded fine to him and it matched what he heard on the master tape.

On 9/10/2019 at 8:00 AM, bresna said:

No - Kevin Gray mastered and cut these LPs. Joe Harley is the reissue producer and he's the one who came into that thread and said it sounded fine to him and it matched what he heard on the master tape.

Thanks...

I guess they should have coordinated answers or something though....

Kevin's explanation implies that these tapes weren't handled correctly at some point and from my experience, which is admittedly limited, this is certainly not the case....

Some well respected engineers I know actually like the vintage Scotch tape mentioned above as well....

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