JSngry

The Banned Dizzy Jerome Kern Recrods

39 posts in this topic

174024581825.jpg

Kinda hard to believe that Kern got pissed of at these...much less that they're still not reissued anywhere(?) except on an old Phoenix LP..and these are allegedly in need of pitch adjustment?!?!?!?! (not sure about that, the keys are funny, but the timbres all sound right to me).

Sorry, I still can't take Johnny Richards seriously...nothing to do with his gifts, which are obvious, just that everything he does is...nothing I can take seriously.

But if you got an OG of this thing, hey, you got a little bank!

https://gripsweat.com/item/174024581825/worldsrarest-bebop-lp-dizzy-gillespie-meets-kern-paramount-a-1-nm-top-copy

 

 

i-img800x714-1551769175lgf8ao1126826.jpg

yeah, those first videos are a half-step high.

YIKES! It looks like a Mosaic spine!

174024581825_1.jpg

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Never heard this at all. He did another with Richards/strings in 1950 on Discovery that I recall.

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Per Lord online:

    All above titles also on Phoenix LP4, Official (Dan)3032, Classics (F)935 [CD], Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD119 [CD].

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4 hours ago, jay2b2 said:

Per Lord online:

    All above titles also on Phoenix LP4, Official (Dan)3032, Classics (F)935 [CD], Masters of Jazz (F)MJCD119 [CD].

Ha, thanks for the reminder!

I'ved owned this "Anonymous Mr. Gillespie" sit in my record shelves for close to 30 years, ever since I bought it new in the shop back then. But I did not fully realize that it includes those rare tracks withdrawn following the objections of the Kern estate. (Amazing considering that All The Things You Are had been given the works by Diz and Bird the year before - any MANY other modern jazz artists recorded it too, so they would have had a handful to do if they had gone on to sue all these ... tin-eared as they were ...).But itÄs nice to see what the package of the original issue looks like.

Time to spin the reissue again ...

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The Phoenix issue has been confirmed to be a half-step too high. What about the other two?

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21 minutes ago, JSngry said:

The Phoenix issue has been confirmed to be a half-step too high. What about the other two?

too fast or too slow transfers are a common problem on Dime and I am sure other private recording trade/BT sites.  It can't be too hard to correct since pitch-corrected recordings get posted all the time. Goldwave has "time warp" as an effect which allows you to convert a recording from 45 or 33 to 78, I just have no idea what it would take to convert "a half-step" down.

Edit to add:

A pitch-corrected transfer was posted here

https://brewlitesjazztales.wordpress.com/2011/11/23/dizzy-gillespie-johnny-richards-the-lost-jerome-kern-memorial-album-hollywood-1946/

back in 2011 but the link is dead. The blog doesn't seem too active anymore with nothing posted since February but that isn't really too long ago so maybe he will re-up.

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2 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

Ha, thanks for the reminder!

I'ved owned this "Anonymous Mr. Gillespie" sit in my record shelves for close to 30 years, ever since I bought it new in the shop back then. But I did not fully realize that it includes those rare tracks withdrawn following the objections of the Kern estate. (Amazing considering that All The Things You Are had been given the works by Diz and Bird the year before - any MANY other modern jazz artists recorded it too, so they would have had a handful to do if they had gone on to sue all these ... tin-eared as they were ...).But itÄs nice to see what the package of the original issue looks like.

Time to spin the reissue again ...

Same here, exactly!

 

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11 hours ago, JSngry said:

Kinda hard to believe that Kern got pissed of at these...much less that they're still not reissued anywhere(?) except on an old Phoenix LP..and these are allegedly in need of pitch adjustment?!?!?!?! (not sure about that, the keys are funny, but the timbres all sound right to me).

It was not Kern who got pissed off - he had died a few months before the date and it was meant as a tribute to him, as the beboppers appreciated many of his tunes. It was the Kern estate that objected who thought the performances to be disrespectful so shortly after his passing. The liner notes of the Official LP make that quite clear.

The drummer, btw, probably was Roy Porter, and not Roy Haynes as is stated in most discographies. Haig, Ray Brown, and Porter were Dizzy's rhythm section at the time in California.

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The Classics cd only has four tracks with Johnny Richards. So, were there more, or was this just two 78s or what?

 

 

 

gregmo

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Considering the involvement of both Johnny Richards and Diz, is there any Afro-Cuban jazz content on this?

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Content?

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6 hours ago, mikeweil said:

It was not Kern who got pissed off - he had died a few months before the date and it was meant as a tribute to him, as the beboppers appreciated many of his tunes. It was the Kern estate that objected who thought the performances to be disrespectful so shortly after his passing. The liner notes of the Official LP make that quite clear.

The drummer, btw, probably was Roy Porter, and not Roy Haynes as is stated in most discographies. Haig, Ray Brown, and Porter were Dizzy's rhythm section at the time in California.

 

Even if Kern were alive at the time of the 'recrod', it was a well-known fact he hated jazz musicians' versions of his tunes, so he would've tried to have it banned anyway.

BTW, a RECROD was a measuring device that was used back in the 1930s and 40s to determine the exact amount of deviation jazz musicians inflicted upon the actual scores of the early, Operetta-derived American musicals composed by the European immigrants of the time. If more than nine bars of the melody, harmony or rhythm are altered, a Wilhelm Scream-like alarm would go off, and the jazzer's version would immediately be placed on the avoid list. It was derived from the name WreckRod, an invention of a failed German show composer Hans Castorp, while he was recuperating in a sanitorium.

Edited by sgcim

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28 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Content?

Rhythms? Grooves? Bass hitting anything other than the one?

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Hitting?

22 minutes ago, sgcim said:

BTW, a RECROD was a measuring device that was used back in the 1930s and 40s to determine the exact amount of deviation jazz musicians inflicted upon the actual scores of the early, Operetta-derived American musicals composed by the European immigrants of the time. If more than nine bars of the melody, harmony or rhythm are altered, a Wilhelm Scream-like alarm would go off, and the jazzer's version would immediately be placed on the avoid list. It was derived from the name WreckRod, an invention of a failed German show composer Hans Castorp, while he was recuperating in a sanitorium.

I thought that was all common knowledge, but apparently not.

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Any Afro Cuban content on these recrods?

Congas, bongos, Afro Cuban rhythms, bass hitting anything other than the one?

Edited by Teasing the Korean

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Those four are all there is, so all there is there.

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3 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Those four are all there is, so all there is there.

Anythin Afro-Cuban about it?

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Does you computer not play the videos?

There might be? I don't recall?

I mean, I've listened to them all I care to. Don't worry though, I saved some for you!

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2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Does you computer not play the videos?

There might be? I don't recall?

I mean, I've listened to them all I care to. Don't worry though, I saved some for you!

This is a discussion board, and I am on my cell phone in a noisy environment. Is it too difficult for you to simply type "yes" or "no?"

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JSngry, if you are unable to answer my question, I will listen tomorrow when things are more quiet, and I will also start an instructional thread specifically  for you, to help you recognize Afro-Cuban jazz when you hear it. It's not that difficult, and you should be able to catch on quickly. You're welcome!

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56 minutes ago, Teasing the Korean said:

Is it too difficult for you to simply type "yes" or "no?"

No.

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