David Ayers

Stone cold classic tracks post-Coltrane

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Posted (edited)

So in the way that My Favorite Things (for example) is a stone cold classic* in its studio version (as well as in the wider world of various live versions) have you got any post-Coltrane tracks that you love and feel in the same way, every glorious inevitable note? I’m not sure I have and I’m not going to call anybody out for their opinion, but...well, I just wonder...

 

*for a lot of folks if not for everybody

Edited by David Ayers

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Do you mean "post-Coltrane" in terms of musical evolution, or simply chronologically?

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2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Do you mean "post-Coltrane" in terms of musical evolution, or simply chronologically?

Chronologically. I should have said. 

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6 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

Chronologically. I should have said. 

If its post-Coltrane chronologically only, then why?

Why exclude, say, Hawk's first recording of "Body and Soul"?

Isn't this just a "perfect performance" or "favorite track" thread? I think it would be more interesting to require that it be post-Coltrane in terms of musical evolution.

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5 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

If its post-Coltrane chronologically only, then why?

Why exclude, say, Hawk's first recording of "Body and Soul"?

Isn't this just a "perfect performance" or "favorite track" thread? I think it would be more interesting to require that it be post-Coltrane in terms of musical evolution.

I’m assuming there’s a known canon up to the death of Coltrane, and after that I’m not sure. Not favorite track but stone cold classic that you’d put up there with MFT. Is there anything?

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So...you're looking for any jazz record made after the death of John Coltrane that is memorable in the "stone cold classic hang on every notw" way?

 

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If you're looking for a "classic" -- in the sense that practically everybody agrees that it's important milestone of the art -- then you're going to run into difficulties after Coltrane.  Coltrane seems to be the end of consensus in jazz.  

Personally, I think many, many, many classics have been made since Coltrane's passing.  But they haven't -- and couldn't -- have the same impact from a broader cultural perspective.  They haven't gained the consensus  -- or the entry into the canon that can only come with consensus. 

Some of the reasons why come from within jazz itself, and many come from factors outside of it.  

 

... I'm not sure that's even addressing your question.  

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Truthfully MFT is not the "stone cold classic" for me that it is for many...at least not the Atlantic version. The live version on Selflessness, otoh...

I herd "Transition" before the Atlantic MFT, and that set an initial bar for me in terms of energy and direct impact that took a few years to adjust to historical context. I definitely was coming in with a Hendrix-informed esthetic, so...

Here's another one that I can still hang on every note of, then and now:

 

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of McCoy, I would say "Passion Dance" and "Blues on the Corner," and possibly "Fly with the Wind" a bit later.  They are pieces that are glorious to listen to, no matter how often I hear them. 

I would add Mingus' "Duke Ellington's Sound of Love," which in my book is one of the greatest pieces ever from one of the greatest artists in jazz history.

 

 

Edited by Milestones

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3 minutes ago, Milestones said:

I would add Mingus' "Duke Ellington's Sound of Love," which in my book is one of the greatest pieces ever from one of the greatest artists in jazz history.

Definitely a "hang on every note" performance for me....I used to call into the campus radio station and request it one night, and "The Creator Has A Master Plan" the next, that was my request rotation. To the DJ who gladly complied, Carolyn, wherever you are, I love you!

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I'm not too sure what the definition of "stone cold classic" we're working with but given the number of cover versions of this I'd say it's entered some kind of canon

 

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Agreed on that Mingus track, it was actually one I did consider when I posted the Tyner.  Great album.

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If we want to talk about classics in the sense of influence and number of covers, I would suggest

Grover Washington - Mr. Magic

Herbie Hancock - Chameleon

Mongo Santamaria - Watermelon Man

Les McCann - Compared to What

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

and "The Creator Has A Master Plan" the next

DJ's love those 32 minute songs, gives them a sizable break.  Though she would have needed to flip the LP.  Wonder how the rest of the audience felt about hearing that one 3-4 times a week?  Not to disparage it musically, I love it, it's just loooong.

Edited by felser

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15 minutes ago, felser said:

DJ's love those 32 minute songs, gives them a sizable break.  Though she would have needed to flip the LP.  Wonder how the rest of the audience felt about hearing that one 3-4 times a week?  Not to disparage it musically, I love it, it's just loooong.

Dude - 1974-75, college jazz radio (which means only a few people were listening anyway, the station then only played jazz for a few hours in the evening), listener base highly stoned...there were no complaints.

Plus, i knew Carolyn, we lived in the same dorm. she was totally cool with it. Besides, Side 1 was just 19:20, not THAT long, I mean, the underground rock stations would play jams about that long, so...The station DJs then were volunteers and the jazz DJs were jazz fans of one kind or the other (contrast that to today....). Carolyn was totally cool, a big Leon Thomas fan, IIRC. I know that she was happy to play both it and the Mingus.

I hope she's still alive, and I hope that she's happy in life.

Different time/place, altogether. Looking back, it seems miraculous that there was so much access to so many currents, all you had to do was keep your eyes and ears open, and not get scared (or as they used to say, "don't punk out").

The whole underground hip-hop thing, not dissimilar in that regard, although of course, operating with and in a totally different world. But I hear that stuff and smile.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think I'm getting the premise of this thread.  It seems to be suggesting that great jazz virtually cuts off after 1960.  No "stone cold classics" after that, or perhaps just a few?  This is cutting off the most significant part of Coltrane's career.  It cuts out virtually the entirety of Wes Montgomery, Wayne Shorter, Eric Dolphy, and many more. It pretty much suggests there are no "stone cold classics" in free jazz or fusion.

 

Edited by Milestones

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Freddie Hubbard’s Straight Life?

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NOONAH!

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2 hours ago, Milestones said:

I don't think I'm getting the premise of this thread. 

People's Choice - Do It Any Way You Wanna (Dj ''S'' Remix) - YouTube

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If post-Coltrane here means after he died, yes there's some. If it means after his 1st recording of of MFT, there's tons.  If it means post Coltrane stylistically, that's hard but not impossible.

Art Ensemble, People in Sorrow qualifies in every sense, and yes I mean every last darn note for 40 minutes, a bit of a miracle.

Sonny Sharrock, Ask the Ages, all of it but particularly Who does She Hope to Be, in every sense a stone cod classic, my only quibble is I would've sequenced it differently

For simply great performances after 'Trane died there's lots of Miles, lots of Sonny R, lots of of other lessor knows, and I think there is a consensus emerging too even if I'm not really part of it.

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3 hours ago, Milestones said:

I don't think I'm getting the premise of this thread.  It seems to be suggesting that great jazz virtually cuts off after 1960.  No "stone cold classics" after that, or perhaps just a few?  This is cutting off the most significant part of Coltrane's career.  It cuts out virtually the entirety of Wes Montgomery, Wayne Shorter, Eric Dolphy, and many more. It pretty much suggests there are no "stone cold classics" in free jazz or fusion.

 

By post-Coltrane I meant after his death. I was struggling to think for me what was just so permanently present and note-by-note glorious so that I’d say to anybody yes, this is it. So I thought I’d see what other folks have in that category. So far we haven’t come too far away from Coltrane! 😉

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Eddie Harris, Listen Here, the 2nd version, recorded just before Trane died and released after.

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