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You'll get no guff from me on that.

At the risk of getting a bunch of shit for this, I'm still going to say it... if the stuff free-blowing players like Brötzmann play is "Jazz", then why shouldn't the stuff smooth players play be labeled similarly? Because let's be honest with ourselves - Smooth Jazz is a lot closer to Jazz than a lot of the really out stuff being labeled as such. I used to think I knew what Jazz was. I stopped trying to figure it out a long time ago. One of the albums that turned my head was The Bad Plus' "These Are The Vistas" with their cover of Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit". If Jazz can include covers of grunge metal, anything goes, right?

Teach people to play.

Simply, no.

Surely you remember them. Like podcasts, but in text on pages made of mashed vegetable matter. Very cumbersome.

yeah, Windham Hill is a whole 'nother story, since it was founded by the American steel string guitarist William Ackerman, who was inspired by John Fahey. The first release was given the catalog number C-1001, corresponding to the Takoma Records numbering system (he also reissued George Winston's solo piano debut, which was on Takoma, as well as then-new music by Takoma artist Robbie Basho). Windham Hill later became associated with "new age" but they really were doing something in an American folk-spiritualist tradition, musically, from the beginning.

The 80s edition of Berendt's jazz book would mention people like Kenny G... But, if you only have half a page for Ben Webster and a sentence or two for Johnny Griffin or Roland Kirk, someone like Kenny G cannot expect more than to be part of a list "further saxophone players in 1980s fusion jazz, some crossing over into what has become known as smooth jazz include Kenny G, Dave Koz,..." Acker Bilk might get a similar name check in the clarinet section... The sentence doesn't really hurt anyone and I always appreciated that Berendt tried to keep that type of open mind... If the record store stocks it, then the book should explain it... Then again, I also wouldn't mind if the sentence was missing.

A book?

Thanks

If its included its not a course or book I am interested in. To me its easier to draw a straight line from the swing era to the "Jazz with a Beat" (borrowing member ListeningToPrestige book title) than anything worthwhile that leads into "Smooth" "Jazz". And I certainly can't be troubled to figure out who isn't on the level of Boney James or Dave Koz and who is doing something "worthwhile" in the genre. It doesn't bother me at all that both genre's sought/seek "hits" - I will keep saying "Make mine Chunky" and argue that "Jazz With a Beat" all the way thru the Soul Jazz era have more in common with the origins of the music than Smooth ever will.

I forgot Windham Hill. That and the wider New Age movement was a part of this too. Perhaps it is a chapter on the Commercial Jazzes of the Late 1970s to early 1990s. Prior to the environmental collapse caused by the twin rise of Gorlitz and the swinging retro pop revival. This is a fun and quite poignant list. So many hopes and dreams on there. Guys in rented evening dress for the cover shoot, recording under the covers so their kid sleeping in the next room doesn't get woken up, etc.

Absolutely. Like it or not, the Windham Hill catalogue is worth discussing. And since so many jazz histories would ignore free jazz or European jazz or soul-jazz or electronics-driven jazz, why add to the problem? If you were teaching a class on heavy metal—which I do—you cannot ignore nu-metal even if it is as commercially-driven as smooth jazz.

👍👍

Oh it was my first time listening to it (streaming, Deezer)! I don't know Rasmussen at all 😅 It was recently issued (I picked up on it right here:

Oh yeah. Five stars aren't enough for that record!

Hadn’t played my favorite record on my new deck yet

A bit off topic but I reckon that a person could make a cracking double CD of post-CTI Bob James. He really does have some excellent tunes, albeit on some pretty crappy records, some times.

yes, there was a list published and I was trying to find it. EDIT: the site it was on is gone but here's the list via discogs: https://www.discogs.com/lists/Smooth-Jazz-Underground/373593?srsltid=AfmBOoqRsc7RuuBONGFaS0nj4voHYNipEiZeUw_0BiudtJ90Iew5olli

"Bedroom" / underground smooth jazz... There was a list that got published somewhere a while back. Maybe you posted it? Someone who knows his or her stuff did.

okay, right. Was "fuzak" a term for this stuff? I feel like I remember that being used in the 90s.

What I mean is that the likes of the Rippingtons maybe played on a different radio station, or something.

see, I always associate Grusin with smooth jazz but maybe he isn't. Obviously both Grover Washington and Mr. Gorelick can play! cdbaby/lofi cassette smooth jazz has some interest for weirdo collectors. It's not my thing, really, but I can understand the appeal.

Genres are tricky. They're useful tools for understanding. But always limited.

Funny to use Jokerman font on a jazz album cover. Not one you'll see in the coffee table books any time soon...