Jenkins, Jordan, and Timmons

[Larry Kart]

Don't know how I missed this one all these years since 1957, but I've heard it now, and it's a gem. Not as shaggy as many Prestige dates of the time -- I think because Clifford Jordan had a rather orderly temperament -- it finds John Jenkins in loose, at times glittering form, Jordan sounding so damn grown up, while Ware may be the secret ingredient behind the date's special air of urgency and relaxation. Two nice tunes too -- Jordan's "Cliff's Edge" and Julian Priester's lithe variant on "Groovin' High," "Soft Talk." Oh, I foreget to mention Bobby Timmons, who as Ira Gitler says in the liner notes is still in his Bud Powell bag. Whatever, he's in fine form, he and Ware seemingly thinking as one as accompanists.

[Eric]

Don't know how I missed this one all these years since 1957, but I've heard it now, and it's a gem. Not as shaggy as many Prestige dates of the time -- I think because Clifford Jordan had a rather orderly temperament -- it finds John Jenkins in loose, at times glittering form, Jordan sounding so damn grown up, while Ware may be the secret ingredient behind the date's special air of urgency and relaxation. Two nice tunes too -- Jordan's "Cliff's Edge" and Julian Priester's lithe variant on "Groovin' High," "Soft Talk." Oh, I foreget to mention Bobby Timmons, who as Ira Gitler says in the liner notes is still in his Bud Powell bag. Whatever, he's in fine form, he and Ware seemingly thinking as one as accompanists.

Agree!!! I discovered this one as part of the Concord OJC blowout sale last summer. You nailed it.

[Peter Friedman]

Larry,

Would you define what you mean by "shaggy".

[Larry Kart]

Larry,

Would you define what you mean by "shaggy".

Prestige dates of that era often tended to sound like rather off-the-cuff, let's roll the tape and see what we get affairs, compared to Blue Note dates of the same era on which similar musicians were playing the same style of music. Alfred Lion opted for pre-session rehearsal and preparation, and Bob Weinstock typically did not. This album almost has a Blue Note feel to it. Far more typical of Prestige's "shagginess" would be, say, the Jenkins-Jackie McLean "Alto Madness," also from 1957, which has some fine moments on it but hardly seems to have been produced at all -- given the minimal writing and the blow-till-you-drop length of the title track, with its seemingly endless series of exchanges between the two altoists, intense though those exchanges are at times. Again, I have the feeling that Clifford Jordan was the de facto producer on "Jenkins, Jordan, and Timmons."

[bertrand]

I don't recall this one being in the blow-out sale...

Bertrand.

[street singer]

Just a quick heads up...

This album (in the form of OJC vinyl) is currently available from True Blue for $5.98...

Waiting on my copy to arrive.

[brownie]

The album was part of a vinyl reissue program of Prestige/New Jazz albums from French distributors in the '70s.

Have enjoyed my copy since (was a fan of John Jenkins ever since I heard him on the Riverside Wilbur Ware session 'Chicago Sound').

Other vinyls in the series included - among others - Walt Dickerson's 'A Sense of Direction', Harold Land's 'Eastward Ho!', Clifford Jordan's 'Starting Time'!

[AllenLowe]

from what I've been told by some of the musicians involved, Weinstock at Prestige had a tendency to find the guys who were strung out and needed quick cash, get 'em in and out of the studio, and release the session quickly. Kind of a junkie express -

Edited May 8, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Dan Gould]

from what I've been told by some of the musicians involved, Weinstock at Prestige had a tendency to find the guys who were strung out and needed quick cash, get 'em in and out of the studio, and release the session quickly. Kind of a junkie express -

Weinstock reacted vehemently and profanely to this assertion when I asked him. Stated unequivically that he had no knowledge of who was a junkie. And he really objected to the lengthy statement from Jackie McLean that appears in "Four Lives in the Bebop Business" about how he was screwed by Prestige when he was with them.

[paul secor]

The album was part of a vinyl reissue program of Prestige/New Jazz albums from French distributors in the '70s.

Have enjoyed my copy since (was a fan of John Jenkins ever since I heard him on the Riverside Wilbur Ware session 'Chicago Sound').

Other vinyls in the series included - among others - Walt Dickerson's 'A Sense of Direction', Harold Land's 'Eastward Ho!', Clifford Jordan's 'Starting Time'!

That series found its way to the U.S. I bought a number of them at the 4th St. Tower in the 80's - the only way that music was available here then.

[AllenLowe]

well, I would not expect Weinstock to say, "yes, I took advantage of junkies..."

look, responsibility here works both ways; musicians had the ability to say no, to change their lives...but Dave Schildkruat, who had a clear head and no substance problem, considered Weinstock to be manipulative in this way. And look at the contrast between musicians' regard for Bluenote versus Prestige: a world of difference which reflects more equitable business practices. And I knew Jackie McLean well enough for a time to discuss this, and he clearly felt he was taken advantage of at a particularly vulnerable point in his life. He was willing to take personal responsibility for his lifestyle, but that does not justify other actions by other people. But even more to the point, let's look at the contracts and royalty statements. I'm willing to bet we'd find some interesting differences between Riverside and Bluenote and Prestige - and just look at the sessions on both labels. The "hit and run" quality of so many of Prestige's issues is a good indicator of a specific corporate attitude. Great as so much of the music was -

Edited May 8, 2007 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

and give me a break, EVERYBODY knew who was a junkie in those days, so that particular aspect of Weinstock's response indicates, to me, that he was not being completely candid -

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

and give me a break, EVERYBODY knew who was a junkie in those days, so that particular aspect of Weinstock's response indicates, to me, that he was not being completely candid -

Didn't Chris Albertson basically verify this on some thread (I dunno...2 yrs ago or so?) when he spoke about certain hard-up-for-cash folks that management flat out knew were stuffing LPs (or other merchandise?) in their jackets and right out of the building for quick resale?

[Kyo]

I downloaded this from eMusic a couple of weeks ago, maybe I should actually listen to it now...

Edited May 12, 2007 by Kyo

[Kalo]

I found this on sale a few weeks ago at the Newbury Comics in Harvard Square. Very nice! I'm listening to it again right now.

Man, I love the way Jordan sidles into "Tenderly."

[jlhoots]

I found this on sale a few weeks ago at the Newbury Comics in Harvard Square. Very nice! I'm listening to it again right now.

Man, I love the way Jordan sidles into "Tenderly."

I got my copy (in the mail) from Newbury Comics too.

Wonder how many they have.

[garthsj]

Don't know how I missed this one all these years since 1957, but I've heard it now, and it's a gem. Not as shaggy as many Prestige dates of the time -- I think because Clifford Jordan had a rather orderly temperament -- it finds John Jenkins in loose, at times glittering form, Jordan sounding so damn grown up, while Ware may be the secret ingredient behind the date's special air of urgency and relaxation. Two nice tunes too -- Jordan's "Cliff's Edge" and Julian Priester's lithe variant on "Groovin' High," "Soft Talk." Oh, I foreget to mention Bobby Timmons, who as Ira Gitler says in the liner notes is still in his Bud Powell bag. Whatever, he's in fine form, he and Ware seemingly thinking as one as accompanists.

I have also admired this date since my first vinyl copy back when the covers were real cardboard, but my only compaint is that at 37 minutes there should be more music!

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't know how I missed this one all these years since 1957, but I've heard it now, and it's a gem. Not as shaggy as many Prestige dates of the time -- I think because Clifford Jordan had a rather orderly temperament -- it finds John Jenkins in loose, at times glittering form, Jordan sounding so damn grown up, while Ware may be the secret ingredient behind the date's special air of urgency and relaxation. Two nice tunes too -- Jordan's "Cliff's Edge" and Julian Priester's lithe variant on "Groovin' High," "Soft Talk." Oh, I foreget to mention Bobby Timmons, who as Ira Gitler says in the liner notes is still in his Bud Powell bag. Whatever, he's in fine form, he and Ware seemingly thinking as one as accompanists.

I have also admired this date since my first vinyl copy back when the covers were real cardboard, but my only compaint is that at 37 minutes there should be more music!

Notes per pound/dollar?

I have a problem with this unless you are paying "primo" prices for the music.

If you get pleasure, what is the limit?

[couw]

I have also admired this date since my first vinyl copy back when the covers were real cardboard, but my only compaint is that at 37 minutes there should be more music!

Notes per pound/dollar?

I have a problem with this unless you are paying "primo" prices for the music.

If you get pleasure, what is the limit?

You're being grumpy again Chuck.

Think "damn this is good, I wish it lasted longer than 37 minutes!"

[AllenLowe]

I think he was talking about the weight of the CD - since CDs are lighter than LPs, there is a higher cost per pound. That's why I only listen to 78s and transcription discs -

Edited May 15, 2007 by AllenLowe

[paul secor]

Play it again, couw.

Edited May 15, 2007 by paul secor

[garthsj]

I have also admired this date since my first vinyl copy back when the covers were real cardboard, but my only compaint is that at 37 minutes there should be more music!

Notes per pound/dollar?

I have a problem with this unless you are paying "primo" prices for the music.

If you get pleasure, what is the limit?

You're being grumpy again Chuck.

Think "damn this is good, I wish it lasted longer than 37 minutes!"

I believe that was my sentiment .... much like my feelings about "Grand Encounter" with John Lewis, Jim Hall, and Bill Perkins .. could there have been too much of that music? ... 32 minutes was not enough!

Edited May 16, 2007 by garthsj

[Clunky]

I have also admired this date since my first vinyl copy back when the covers were real cardboard, but my only compaint is that at 37 minutes there should be more music!

Notes per pound/dollar?

I have a problem with this unless you are paying "primo" prices for the music.

If you get pleasure, what is the limit?

You're being grumpy again Chuck.

Think "damn this is good, I wish it lasted longer than 37 minutes!"

I believe that was my sentiment .... much like my feelings about "Grand Encounter" with John Lewis, Jim Hall, and Bill Perkins .. could there have been too much of that music? ... 32 minutes was not enough!

That's the advantage of having this on LP , you can't tell how long it is. Just judge it by the music. In both cases but Grand Encounter is finer IMO

[BruceH]

I've been a fan of this album for years. Don't remember when I bought it, actually, but I imagine it had a lot to do with having both Jenkins and Jordan's names on it (not to mention Timmons.) But yeah, the album's one of those gems that's quite a bit better than you initially expected and repays obsessive listening. I put a couple of the tracks from this on a jazz tape, and used to listen to it all the time in the car.

[Shawn]

I LOVE this album. I discovered it when I was on a Wilbur Ware kick quite a few years ago, I remember being pleasantly surprised that it wasn't another "formless" jam session like many of the Prestige dates of the period. I'm going to have to dig my copy out of storage so I can spin it again....