David Ayers

Yeah, that line of reasoning would make since with a few "ifs", like: If they'd dig out the rarities, stopped combining the obvious with the obscure, and most important of all points: if they stopped ripping off other small labels! And it makes even more sense in the few cases mentioned where they did actually buy material from artists - but guess what? Their Nocturne box selled so slowly or badly that they never followed up with Vol. 2 ... is that just a coincidence or is there more to it? Like: if they operate with a clean policy, they can't make it work economically? So the argument is to support the majors because...? PD is legal. It's legal. The rest is consumer preference. Oh and FS stick it all on Spotify, another advantage.

I'd bet that EMI never pay royalties to BN artists on their own PD products issued in Europe. Why on earth would they? *Now* what they have here are versions made from the best sources and with official booklets, artwork etc. The latter are in copyright, but they can't recopyright the actual recording just by remastering. So buying from EMI remains a choice but - here's what we all know - money that goes to Sony or Universal will not pay for most of the reissues and remasters we want, so our euros and pounds don't end up supporting the reissue ventures we would like to see. You could even argue that supporting FS is *more* logical than supporting the majors.

In fact I do think this is the main point in what Bear Family actually does about "licensing" stuff. I can't put my finger on it but I remeber discussing this aspect in passing with one Bear Family employee at a record fair when the subject of the way they do their box sets came up. They pick their sources carefully and in a targeted manner and then cover those fields in full. It certainly is no coincidence they covered the MERCURY label's files in all fields of music THAT extensively. They must have made a deal at one point that they have free rein in the Mercury archives and files so they cover the entire field in great depth (I am not talking about jazz, specifically, of course). Makes sense if you are in the reissue field and have access to the source. Having access to original sources - which the public-domain labels clearly don't have - is exactly the point of making licensing agreements, and it's also the point I was trying to make but didn't explicitly mention. As I said there is a difference Difference of quality, no legal difference.

Be very careful of wallets and handbags in Rome. Watch out especially when getting on buses where at crowded stops. Watch out for gangs of small children, often carrying cardboard. Small points maybe but this stuff often happens to people in Rome. You must see the Vatican, you must of course see the great classical monuments, the Villa Borghese is pretty compulsory, and many people find an interest in visiting one or other of the catacombs. You won't run out of churches and when you visit the famous squares make sure not to miss out Campo dei Fiori. Really for 3 days the guidebook will tell you everything and, while I haven't seen the one for Rome, and while though I travel much I don't do tourism, I have found the small Frommer's day-by-day guides the most succinct and practical. Rome is not known for eating and the cheaper restaurants are all fair enough but tend to offer the same basic things. Record stores? Not sure there are any left. I used to live in Rome and for that reason know almost nothing about it Oh and Barcelona! Same thing, Frommer's day-by-day, which I did use on the one occasion I visited. Maybe try for 4Cats restaurant where artsy folks used to hang out, now just tourists of course. Be careful of area near waterfront. Oh and if their Spanish sounds weird it is not because they are making mistakes, they are speaking Catalan (I was a bit thrown until I figured this out...). The architecture is of course a must-see. Here I am in Barcelona with Frommers and uh dictionary. Which I didn't need of course. And yes, I'm in Starbucks. I know, I know... Here's the restaurant http://4gats.com/en/

Lose what, the opportunity to pay a stranger to do what a friend will do for free? It's a service, that's all. Same applies to Mosaic re. material which is PD in Europe. Why should anyone here pay them for material which they have to license from Sony etc. but which here is unowned. I won't persuade you, but the only difference between Mosaic and Fresh Sound is level of access to original sources i.e quality of the product. There really isn't any moral distinction indeed the opposite, each is a labor of love. From an ethical and legal point of view it is exactly the same to rip PD material from whatever source. But if I help myself to PD stuff reissued by Mosaic then Mosaic will suffer, and same for Fresh Sound. That's a choice, of course. I think the fact is that people who purchase FS CDs have over the years sponsored a major and important activity (from the point of view of we record nerds). I know that from the US point of view the euro-PD position makes for some discomfort but I suggest a revaluation and I am trying to explain the case.

Really can't agree. If material is public domain it is publically owned. That means that no-one can claim to own the license in those territories. Any payment made to the former license owner is a voluntary donation. If Bear Family do that then...it's curious, but it has no implications for what anyone else should do. I am sure Sony and Universal are grateful for the donations. Likely it has more to do with payment for access to original sources, but that is another discussion. Bear Sound's generosity to major corporations doesn't make Fresh Sound's activities illegal - they plainly are not.

The current Sony Legacy issues of those albums don't work so well for me, so I don't mind giving them another go in what might - just might - be more audiophile versions. It isn't costly and I'd have got round to reassessing this stuff soon anyway.

With the difference that the material that is released by Mosaic is licensed by the owners of the rights, public domain or not. That is not the case with public-domain labels. Those rights do not pertain in Europe, so it is the same thing.

You know what, Fresh Sound do a great job. Use it or lose it. It's a labor of love and it's legal. Like Mosaic. A lot of that Mosaic stuff is PD over here so if I thought like you guys...

I'm in for these. Strong preference for early Beatles.

Hm. Maybe try burning to it and see what happens?

We may have to deduct a few marks here for your interpretation of the question....

Well, Mosaic are known first for their editorial concept and only second for their often good sound, but they are not strictly an audiophile company. There are other 30s Mosaic sets with more authentic sound for those who want to be as close as possible to the source, although even the best sets from that point of view have a few clunkers that out of necessity came from a secondary/tertiary source. Unfortunately the limits of the less well-sourced material tend to be obvious, but we are where we are. This set will sell because it is Ella. Who is in, is in, and who not, not.

Just to follow up on this, these CDs have the catalogue number beginning CDSOL. You can see what's in print at this link: http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/search/music/advanced_1/category_1/catnum_cdsol/formattype_1/genre_VARIOUS_800/sort_datedesc/ I should say there's no 'clean' way to search for these titles on that site as there are a lot of CDSOL releases. This search cuts it another way http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/search/advanced_1/category_1%2C2%2C3%2C4%2C5%2C7%2C9%2C10%2C23%2C24/formattype_1/labelcode_SBEHE/sort_datedesc/

There's a record I can't remember where the self-penned title track was recorded but not used on the album - I'll try to remember which that was, maybe not even jazz - so my tweak on this question is, any albums where the title track was recorded at the sessions but not used?

Must...use...superpowers...

Maybe just as a thing, Plugged Nickel.

Don't start that talking - I could talk all night...

I said I wanted more and I got more!

I'm all for a fun drive.

There are good opportunities to hear Messiaen orchestral work in London this season. Eclairs is being done by BBCSO, Gergiev/LSO weigh in with Ascension and Offrandes oubliees as part of their Scriabin cycle (synaesthesia is the link; and yes, that is all five Scriabin symphonies), LSO also offers Turangalila, and perhaps best of all LPO brings Canyons with Eschenbach. Go Oliver.

Price has jumped again on amazon.co.uk - now £45.99...

What happened there?

About that. At the risk of boring you. Don't want to send you into a comma.

When I saw this thread title I thought it was a comment on the new Miles Davis complete Columbia box....