md655321

It seems to me the your continuing focus on your perceived reasons for why people make music is getting in the way of what the music actually is. Not sure if there is any psychological projection working on you here, but personally I dont see why it matters what Zorn calls the band. Certainly he is inspired by his Jewish roots, as he has not only used the name but also genuinely incorporated aspects of Jewish culture into the music. And it is hardly uncommon for people to "rediscover" their roots, so to speak, later in life. Especially Jews. More to the point, the incredible music that Zorn and especially Masada create makes any possible nefarious motivations on Zorn's part moot. The music is very special, and often very good. What he uses, or not uses, to market the music is irrelevant.

I think they are nearish mainstream, but I still have them as 'indie rock' on my ipod! Gimme Fiction is a fantastic album

And what are those 'ends'? What would an acceptable list look like to you?

So is Bill Evans and Duke Ellington as well, I suppose. Rock has many different flavors, just cause you clearly do not get it dosn't mean it should be dismissed. And where did you hear Beck was a scientologist? I must say I agree about the Truckers though. They are just plain insane, with unbelievable songwriting and flat out rocking skills. Of course, I love Death Cab too.

So they pretend to like Monk because it makes them cool? I will agree that there are people that get there one Dolphy cd and their two or three Miles cds just to tell their friends they listen to them. But isnt it possible that they actually like the stuff? Do you actually try to look for ways to be jaded? Being skeptical of everything can be just as dangerous as being accepting of everything. I love Phish and Monk. Is that only because it makes me look cool? If I made a list of favorite recordings, Im pretty sure I would have Out to Lunch

Phish finally released a legit version of their epic 12/31/95 show at Madison Square Garden. This show has long been held as their best and a turning point in their jamming and their approach to music. I finally got a chance to pick up the real version, with crystal clear sound. It is indeed a phenomenal piece of musicianship, with the best You Enjoy Myself I have ever heard. Especially considering Trey hasnt had the chops to play it correctly since about 97. I definitely recommend it to anyone who wants to give their Phish love a kickstart or a reboost. It is also available for download (with artwork) from Livephish.com for only 15.99 for 3 discs.

Who is they? And is the best way to get our money to tell us to buy Thelonious Monk records?

The second tune was indeed very lame. And the first was indeed SMOKIN. It is so obvious and so amazingly refreshing when you see greatness on TV these days. It just highlights how painfully mediocre 99% of popular music is these days.

Damn! I wanted that Cline! PM on the Sonny! Just as good.

I have heard all of those. I dig Hunter, but his popularity is based on shtick more than anything, imo. There are many WAY better players than him. Plus, I think MMW has him beat on the whole popularity/jazz cred/intrumental skill thing, and im not even a fan.

All classical, but I figure a few of you would be interested. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/listPa...10&page_size=75

So if you PAY for bootlegged cds, that ok too then? Because it seems to me that price is the only determining factor in your criteria. Yourmusic.com being legal is also not a factor when discussing morality and ethics. Do the artists get royalties from those records? If they dont, how is it any better than downloading? Also, stop pretending your poll is about behavior. If you wanted a poll about behavior, you did an absolutely horrible job in wording it.

You have missed a great deal of phenomenal music.

Yeah it is a good contrast. Nirvana is the greatest rock band in history. Pear Jam sucks. Well that certainly begins to explain your other opinions.

I'm guessing it is because the wording of the poll responses. The poll wasnt asking about behavior, but was in a way trying to take a poke at those who do download. Words like "weak" and phrases about whether one can sleep at night arent exactly neutral.

Of course not! Are people with money the only ones allowed to read great literature? Libraries, friends, family, used bookstores, .... Treat music like a book: lending it out is fine, copying it is not. Downloading it is not, unless the artist has been compensated. Should musicians be treated any differently than writers? Just because technology has made it possible doesn't make it right. So what really is the difference between downloading and taking it out from the library, or borroing it from friends? Is downloading ok if I delete the files after two weeks? Can I renew them once on my computer if I really like them? I think your response reiterates my point to some extent. A library provides access to great music the same way downloading or burning a copy might. The only difference is there is different technology involved. I just think there are definite gray areas that depend on personal use, just like it was ridiculous to attack ALL tape copying back in the day, its just as dangerous to to dismiss all downloading and burning today. I purchase all of the cds I possibly can, and I go to live shows when I can. I support the music as much as I possibly can.

A good contrast to Cobain is Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder. They legitimately scorned superstardom. They havent made a video since their first album, they refused to tour for awhile as they took on the Evil Empire ticketmaster, and they have created conciously weird and non-mainstream music. As a result, instead of being the 90s U2, or even Nirvana, they are now just regular band. Maybe Kurt just didnt have the strength, or the sober enough brain, to say no. But he sure went along for the ride.

So great music should only be available to those with the means to purchase it? A son of a millionaire has a right to the complete John Coltrance discography, but I am only allowed an occasional cd? My downloading of a CD does not do ANY damage to the artist if I didnt have the ability to purchase it anyways. In fact, it may only help because there is an additional person who might be able to say "thats a great album, you should pick it up." And yes, we are talking about something that is necessary to sustain any semblance of quality of life.

None of those is accurate for me. How about, I believe downloading music and burning cds for the purpose of broadening my musical horizons and eventually purchasing said downloaded music is acceptable and often beneficial for the artist. I believe that downloading or burning cds is acceptable when one's financial situation is such that legally purchasing said CDs is fiscally untenable, with the caveat that all downloaded or burned cds will be legally purchased once the purchasing of said cds is fiscally tenable.

So I take it you don't have either of the organissimo CDs?!? FOR SHAME!!! Even worse, he thought you guys were dead He misunderstood when someone said you guys were dead on funky! What do you guys use to catalog your collection? Does anyone have a reccomendation that can make typing in 1000 cds relatively easy?

These debates sure do go ALOT either when jim is on your side. (atleast partially) Excellent stuff!

I will agree that there is SOME argument about Woody Shaw's contribution to trumpet, but the bolded part is where you are just flat out off your rocker. I would be impressed, and even AMAZED, if you can get a single person on this board to agree with that.

How do you know he's the greatest ? He's the most well-known, but how do you know he's the greatest ? Obviously greatest is not meant as absolute, but a general understanding of the quality of one's music. Is Bob THE greatest, imo yes. But regardless he is certainly one of the greatest. Similar to Miles. You can argue he isnt the greatest jazzman of all time. But there is absolutely no denying that his name belongs in any discussion. based on the quality of music, his innovations, and the consistency of his contributions to the art. The same can not be said about Woody Shaw or even Lee Morgan. (although this is a different discussion when discussing just trumpet playing.) What you seem to be omplying is that Herbie, Miles, BB King etc are overrated because the public knows them and there musicians equal to and better than them in their respective genres. I think they are well known because they are the (aleast arguably) very best at what they do, and I think the majority of people would agree.

Maybe you need to buy a lot more music by a lot more musicians. And check out a lot more live music. Cats don't obtain stardom just on the basis of talent, there are a lot of "other factors" at work. So basically you are upset that people become stars? Or are you just upset that your personal preferences become stars? You claim that Miles doesnt move you like Lee or Woody, so you dont understand why he is more popular. But that is just you. A great many serious jazz fans will still tell you Miles is the best. We arent talking neophytes without Woody Shaw records here. Same goes with BB King. I can name you 100 great blues guitar players that the average person has never heard or heard of. But I can name a single one better than BB King. Just because he isnt your personal preference, doesnt make him overrated. Is it annoying that people love Miles but dont know Lee? Of course it is, but that doesnt make Miles any less good, or less deserving of popularity. Look at Reggae, EVERYONE knows Bob Marley. But barely anyone knows anyone else in reggae. Does that make Bob overrated? Absolutely not, because he is the greatest. His fame came from talent, same as BB, same as Ray Charles, Same as Herbie. You simply cannot deny their abilities. Now, if you want to complain about how everyone has heard of Wynton or John Mayer, then we have agreement. But if you cant see why Miles is more popular than Lee Morgan, then you simply arent paying attention.

Who would have thought adding Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, and Gary Payton could possibly go wrong?