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Just have listened to it ! Is this synthie in studio ? Anyway, it is something I can imagine very well and it has the spirit and message of Pharoah Sanders in it. You almost can feel when Pharoah comes in and starts playing. I just imagine this on stage with a live band with piano, bass drums and percussions and maybe a small vocal group, laying down the mood for a while and then Pharoah..... he would have appreciated it ! Thanks for sharing !

Oh yes, my almost 50 years favourite. My copy looks very very used, very old, with all them white spot´s on it, that old LP covers would have. All my LPs look that way ....

You are right: While the jazz standards and originals would get faster and faster, they few ballads got slower and slower. Is it possible, that this could have been a kind of "emancipation", I mean you get away from the original speed and feeling of a song ? In the 40´s and 50´s ballads usually where played in a "slow fox" manner. Monk kept that as long as he played until the 70´s . And if you hear the Messengers do an "Ballad Medley" it´s the same. I suppose, ballads initially were meant for singers, and no singer would do "Valentine" in such a slow tempo.

From Tyrol ? Hope it´s a vacation, or did you move back ? Different Concert......might be worth listening, though I wouldn´t buy it, if I bought all them different concerts and venues where Mingus played with Dolphy and Byard 1964, I´d have to eat "Grammeln" (kennst den Spruch von anno dazumal: "5 Schilling für die Schrammeln, und morgen ess´ ma Grammeln") ......

Hello also from a rainy day Viena * Yes, I knew the story about Sue Mingus stealin´ records from record stores, Well a quite arbitrary way of rezolving the "problem"... About the record: Well, I think the "Great Concert of Mingus" in Paris 1964 with Dolphy was reissued hundreds of times. As most European jazz fans I had the America 3 LP set of it. I remember I got it just gratis from a guy who acclaimed that he "likes Modern Jazz" but couldn´t do nothing with this. When I was at his place he spinned the first section of "Parkeriana" and when the bridge with the tempo changes and potpourrie of varios other bop themes came, he stopped it and said "they completly crazy, this is not music", and I thought right now it´s becoming interesting and said I like it and he gave it to me, and it would be my second "jazz LP" in my life and settled the pace for my further musical developement..., I hadn´t even heard the name Parker at that time and hadn´t heard so called "Free Jazz" yet, so this became the starting point for my further musical explorations.... The Photo of Mingus in Tunisian wardrobe is well known and it is also in Sue Mingus´ book. I would have liked to hear something from the music they had played down there. They say it was the seeds of his further mega-work "Three Worlds of Drums", with its oriental flair..... * A propos rainy day: Good idea for a song to play. Gotcha do it as a first tune on a gig when it rains "Here´s that rainy day"...... nice tune....

ad a) yes you are right, ballads became much slower in the late 60´s , maybe as a contrast or as you say for a slow rubato between Miles and Chick and before that Herbie. Am I right if I noticed that starting at a certain point ballads, even if they were standard ballads would be played slower and slower. Right now this week I heard a usually fast trumpet player doin a very very slow version of "Darn that Dream". In my case, I also played ballads at very slow tempos, but somehow when I play a ballad now and I love to play a ballad, I always have the old vocal versions in mind, which never are that slow, because even the best singer get´s out of breath I suppose. ad b) yeah "Spanish Key !!!! Fantastic ! But if my memory is right, that "Neo or Teo" thing also changes the key from f-minor to D-natural (but in that Spanish mood). I have not listened to it for ages but I think if some guy on stage might call it, it can be played very easily..... The Flamenco Scatches from KOB I remember is very very slow, I had bought KOB when I was 16 or 17 but at that time I liked only "So What", "Freddie Freeloader" and "All Blues" though I had heard the 63/64 faster live versions before and liked them more since I was such a fan of Tony Williams..... Last thought: I remember somewhere in 2008-2010 or so was the 50years aniversary of KOB and I just visited my Mother who was 88 or so at the time and she always had those very little transistor - radios that she hold to her ear, and she holds it to my ear and says: You hear this ? It´s wonderful ! And it was the Flamenco Scatches.....

"Thembi" is a very fine album, and along with "Karma" one of my favourites. But personally I will always stick to "Live at the East" also on Impulse! as my favourite, since it was my first Pharoah LP almost 50 years ago ! And by the way, it also has that irresistible groove on the first track. This kind of thing was Pharoah´s trademark ! It´s strange that Miles was so rude in his interview with Leonard Feather that when he was asked what Pharoah Sanders´ music says to him, he answered "It doesn´t say anything to me since Pharoah isn´t doin´ anything. This is really a quite dumb remark, since Miles was too astute to not have an open ear for all kinds of music. Well it was his "trademark" to diss others, but in my case not to his own advance, as much as I love Miles. I´d say, Pharoah´ message has also to do something with some religion. Being completly innocent when it comes to religions - I don´t have any - it was not en vogue in my youth or in the youth of my parents - , I still get some feeling here that something could be somewhere....

Right, I couldn´t mention a slower live version. Maybe Dexter in later years: While ballads in the past mostly were done in a tempo similar to the popular singing version, later many musicians or musicians coming into age slowed down and some of his later live ballads were almost "standing time" so slow they were. But usually that´s true, live versions always fast: One example: I heard Mingus ´ Atlantic Albums from 1974-77 and also saw the live performances, all of it was much faster. "Remember Rockefeller at Attica" is fast enough on LP but really fast live 1975, Three or Four Shades of the Blues is much faster on his 1977 European tour, and there are many more.....

oh thanks for information @mikeweil , so it was not with combos, I understand.But teaching and accompanist for dancers is also a hard job. I have a full time job (and full time doesn´t mean from 08.00-16.00 only !!!) and try to do music if not dozens of gigs at least selected gigs with really good professional musicians. No carbaret card no union member (joke ! )

I don´t like to bump old threads but it just came to my mind that on tuesday I talked on phone with a great altosaxophonist, who in the 60´s was a recording artist for E.S.P. and if I remember right, there were some postings from Bernard Stollman that I think were deleted later, where he told his version of the story of the "Ups ´n Down" session, that he produced it but didn´t think it would be worth for release and later gave the tape to someone so years later it was released on Mainstream with wrong recording dates , wrong personnel and wrong liner notes (quite astonishing since it was written by no one less than Nat Hentoff). I asked the guy if he knows that Stollman then was "Bud´s Manager" and the response was "Stollman would tell anything.....period". So there still is mistery about it.......

Though I´m not very much "vertraut" with the work of Cal Tjader (I think I heard one "Stan Getz with Cal Tjader" on those french label "America" jazz LPs, I admire you for the huge amount of time it took you for that immens work. Since I think or deduced that you an active musician and teacher also, it must be a 24 din 24 hours of work.....

I don´t know what "a tube swap in my ZROCK2" means as a complete incompetent if it´s about technical or electronical things, but I´m glad you listened to "Filles De Kilimanjaro", which is one of the greatest Miles Davis albums of the 60´s I think ! It has a historical importance and back then a few years after it was recorded, we bunch of jazz kids would listen to it in context with the more contemporanous "Bitches Brew" or "On the Corner". If someone had the record or at least a cassette tape he was the "star" of the group and the others would come and visit and listen together. We didn´t know how to pronounce the french title "Filles de Kilimanjaro" and said it in the german phonetic pronouncing "Fill-Les deh Killi-Mann-Ciarro" or only "Fill Less" (for the french filles) . And the usual question was "hast Du schon die Fill-Less" (do you already have the "filles"? ). As an album it is that great transition from the "second quintet" to the now so called "lost quintet", but the music was not played live I think.....)

In the early sixties, Miles played a piece similar to "Flamenco Sketches" calles "Teo" if I remember right, anyway it was a Spanish Mood and I think I heard it on some live Miles. I must admit the first "All Blues" I ever had heard was on a then en vogue sampler "Miles Davis Greatest Hits" and it was very fast. So when I heard "KOB" I was astonished how slow the tempo is on "All Blues".

This week, here in Vienna at the famous old jazz club "Jazzland" it is the aniversary of "40 Years Mario Gonzi", that means his 40 years of being on stage. Mario Gonzi Mario Gonzi – Wikipedia is maybe the leading drummer here in Austria and I love to play with him and will do so in future for a series of gigs with the great Allan Praskin (as). I was there on Tuesday to see the show and to congratulate, this time it was titled "The Pauer in My Life", focussed on the work of the late great pianist Fritz Pauer (who eventually was my own mentor too). Fritz Pauer - Wikipedia I loved it, such a wonderful music and wonderful players (Herwig Gradischnig on ts, Oliver Kent on piano, Johannes Strasser on bass). During intermissions a lot of conversation, stories, anecdotes. Such a wealth of music, Fritz Pauer´s compositions played live, and such a beautiful evening.

Yes, in the 70´s such bootleg releases/reissues of name bop musicians where widespread, especially here in Europe. In my case, the next country to Austria is Italia and they were "famous" for cheap records of previously Savoy isssued material, also for some broadcasts. Here is three examples, at least what I had or still have: The italian "Lineatre" Series, and the "Kings of Jazz" Series with the subtitle "At their rare of all rarest performances". The French "Musidisc", with wrong recording dates They were cheap and usually costed 101 shillings instead of the usual 163 shillings for legit LP´s from name Labels like CBS or Atlantic and so on.....

Thanks, I saw the Charlie Christian material I have and the trumpet battle at Minton with Joe Guy and Lips, and so on. Other labels, like "Moon" I think were short lived bootlegs......, Yes, here I see short excerps of "Epistrophy" just as a closer, it is possible that I heard such at some source or place..... By the way: I love to play "Epistrophy"...... we did it with the great Allan Praskin as .

Most be great ! The only early Monk I heard was on some Minton tapes, maybe under the name of Charlie Christian, which has a lot of Monk solos on it. And the early BN-version of Round Midnite where they still didn´t play the intro and the coda, which I think was written by Diz but Monk kept it for the rest of his live. I think once I heard also a very early version of "Epistrophy" from the Minton days, I don´t know if it was on a record, there is so many stuff I just heard once and remembered it. The Danish Jazz Baron sure was very important and it´s great there is some of his tapes. There is an anecdote told by Rosenkrantz that once in the early fifties he wanted to aproach Bud Powell and not knowing how it start conversation he asked Bud what time it is, and Bud didn´t answer. Many many years later, Bud saw Mr. Rosenkrantz and said to him "it´s (told the time) ´o clock right now, Mr. Baron !" .

Well this is true mostly for amateur guitarists, if they appear at jam sessions. It may happen that no horn player is in the houses and you get two or even three guitarist on stage who just take over the things. I´ll never again "work" in a club where after your own set you have to deal with some of those. But I have the highest praise for guitarists with whom I jammed in the last month, that´s a good place to play, no non-musician would dare to get up on stage, it is only advanced jazz students and professional musicians, so the quality of the music is safe. And a wonderful guitarist is like a wonderful horn player and I if it´s a quartet with him and a rhythm section I love to let him play the themes and first solos and do four´s with him and the drummer, just wonderful. I think I learned much by listening to Wynton Kelly working with guitar players, with Kenny Burrell and with Wes Montgomery, with Grant Green and so on, that´s how you learn to play with guitarists and enjoy it, it´s just wonderful......

That photos of Mingus on the White House lawn being greet by the President , where Mingus bursted out in tears.....everytime I see that it brings tears into my eyes, serious ! Yes, I also have read this. Sure, records should not be bootleg and I always try to buy legit albums if I buy an album, but sometimes you just don´t know it´s a bootleg. Maybe that´s the reason why two important live albums who might have documented his huge world tour in 1977 can´t be found anymore: The Mingus at Spain, and the Mingus at Buenos Aires both from summer 1977. I mean those quinted live versions of his last huge suites "Cumbia and Jazz Fusion", "Three or Four Shades" were much more exiting that the quite overproduced studio sessions where producers interfered with Mingus´ own choices of players, at least that´s what I supose. At least some of those concerts from 1976 (with Danny Mixon on piano) and 77 (with Bob Neloms on piano) should be released now. We have tons of "new discoveries" from the band with Dolphy (which anyway is one of the greatest things I ever heard on record), but at least for those of my generation who attended live performances of Mingus in the second half of the 70´s in the post Adams/Pullen Period, some good concerts should be made available for the public......

I must have seen this side some years ago , because I remember I read the article about "Fats Navarro Day" which is beautiful. I would have liked to know if some from the photo were close relatives of Fats who had traveled to the event, maybe his daughter Linda and his grandson, maybe others from Key West ? About the discography , well I´m not that kind of collector in a way that "session index" helps me much to buy and album. One thing is sure: The first Fats (and the first Bud) that I heard in my live was on that wonderful double LP "One Night at Birdland" 1950, and Fats´ solos on all that great tunes, his own feature on "Night in Tunisia" and that long solos on "Streat Beat" (where someone shout´s "play Fats !" so he plays one more chorus, and those incredible fast "Dizzy Atmosphere" and "Little Willie Leaps" ......... well more verbally emphatic persons would write "changed my life"....., at least to learn to be able to play stuff like this and build up on that knowledge...... Others was one italian album with most of the Savoy sessions, one from Musidisc with Tadd Dameron at the Royal Roost 1948, and of course the 1949 BN session with Rollins and Bud, which is my idea of a perfect bop recording. Oh yeah, and that strange 1947 all star jam with "High on an Open Mike" and "Sweet Georgia Brown". So I think I have enough to know and love his trumpet and his music.

Well your Osby looks nice, like the young players now, who again are dressed like the old masters Bird or Bean etc. That "Ozzy" ....if he would not have hair on the chest I would have bet that this is a "little bit crazy woman". As I said, a great part of the 80´s due to different circumstances was a big hole for me. But that does not mean that it remained that way. Now I´m quite aware of young players who sound great, but due to the fact that I mostly use them for actual playing and live listening , I´m more aware of the "young lions" here in my town....

Thanks ! It seems to be those series of Jazz in France. Well I didn´t know a Trad Band would do Dizzy Tunes, might give it a taste if it´s on youtube or so.....

Yes, this thread !

Listen to "Time for Tyner" from the late 60´s with Bobby Hutherson, it´s one of my favourite vibes-piano combination. And listen to the "4x4" also Tyner with Hutcherson on Milestone label (four quartets, double LP or CD with 4 sides, each side another added soloist (Hubbard, John Abercrombie, Bobby Hutcherson and Arthur Blyth ) And also recommended: The Timless album "Four Seasons": Hutcherson-George Cables-Herbie Lewis-Philly J.J. from 1983 or so....

I know about that phenomen. I haven´t read the topic before, but I think the hot versus cool I saw in the book about Diz from that Orios Jazz Press series, but it is not a very informative book. Those Bop versus Dixie were very well presented by Barry Ulanov too, with the radio broadcasts of the two shows on some european label, maybe musidisc or spotlite, I remember somehow they did "Tiger Rag" and since the solos are in Ab, they play the solos based on Dizzy Atmoshpere and the ending also is the shout chorus of the outing of Dizzy Athmosphere, I think they also did "Sunny Side of the Street with the outing of 52´nd street theme. It´s really fine how they made that friendy combination of bop and oldtime jazz. Others , mostly amateur Dixilanders are not as smart and get mad if a modernist does that gimmick.....