Jim R

Right- they usually mean the music made with amplified archtops (full depth hollowbodies). My contention is that many folks who are not enamored of that (general) sound tend to lump almost everybody together. Or, if they do dig it, they don't often enough learn to distinguish between some of the major voices. Oh well, I know that requires a certain level of passion. Lon, you remind me of another issue, which is minor but annoying to me. Another thing I've encounterd on discussion boards is a tendency to use the term "electric guitar" to refer to fusion/post-fusion players who often use electronic effects. As though it's understood that the "electric" guitar came along in 1967. "I like Charlie Christian and Wes Montgomery, but my main thing is electric gutarists".

This is a question that has been around for a long time. Very subjective, it seems to me, and probably less relevant than it used to be. Obviously, the guitar has gained a stronger foothold in our culture in general over the past few decades. I don't know if it's "caught up" with the saxophone or the trumpet... not even sure how you would determine that. One thing that bothers me is the way a lot of jazz fans want to lump all archtop players into one big heap, and suggest that they all pretty much sound the same. I've encountered this on a couple of discussion boards over the years. Of course (as with any other instrument category) many of them do sound very similar, but if somebody can't distinguish, say, Barney Kessel's sound from Kenny Burrell's, then they probably aren't devoting enough time and attention. If they don't want to devote the attention, that's understandable, but then they probably shouldn't be making such broad statements. There's also the longstanding image of a guitrist as a purely supporting player, a sideman, an afterthought, which is pretty hard to shake completely. When the average person is asked to list the instruments used in most jazz groups, what will the typical answer be? Probably misc horns (sax and trumpet in the forefront), piano, bass and drums. Is that still an accurate assessment? I doubt it, but then as I said above, I'm not sure how to make a determination. Is the guitar "respected"? I'm sure it still depends on who you ask. I don't think it's fair to say that it was "overlooked from the early 60's and back". More like the early 50's and back, IMO.

This is very sad news. Only 53 years old... R.I.P.

I once posted a full review of it on the BN board... wish I'd saved it. It's an excellent session. Seldon Powell (bars, fl) Hank Jones (p, org) Kenny Burrell (g) Milt Hinton (B) Osie Johnson (d) VGS, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, March 27, 1963 tk 13 The Good Life tk 21 Stairway to the Stars tk 27 Loie VGS, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 2, 1963 tk 35 I Hadn't Anyone 'Til You Stanley Turrentine (ts) Herbie Hancock (p) Kenny Burrell (g) Ben Tucker (B) Bill English (d) Ray Barretto (cga) VGS, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, October 22, 1964 1449 tk 2 Love, Your Spell Is Everywhere 1450 tk 20 Freedom 1451 tk 25 Lonesome Road 1452 tk 31 G Minor Bash 1453 tk 42 K Twist The '64 session would have had a similar sound to MIDNIGHT BLUE, except that Hancock was on board. Herbie gives these tracks an added dimension- and extra zip. Overall, I like FREEDOM quite a bit more than MIDNIGHT BLUE, for the variety of personnel as well as the variety of material. It should have been released on CD YEARS AGO.

Up for the weekend crowd...

My feelings are somewhat mixed. I've come to realize that I generally prefer single CD's (assuming that the music content available is equal), and yes, I think you would do better sound-wise to go for some of the modern remasterings. However, we're talking about WES!! This is fantastic music, essential if you ask me, and $70 is highway robbery. If you don't have much of this material already, I would urge you to grab it (soon). If you already have a substantial amount on CD or vinyl, then you've got a dilemma.

I can't really answer the question, because I've lived my entire life in a major metropolitan area. It was far less populated when I came along 48 years ago, but it was never a "small town" during my lifetime. Of course I've visited many a small town, been to places without a lot of city life (eg Hawaii), and even spent considerable time in the wilderness of the Sierra and the Cascades, but I still don't know what it would be like to actually live full-time away from a large population center. I've often wondered about it, and I think I would (if I was single and had complete freedom to choose) get along pretty well away from "civilization". The biggest reason: I'm a homebody.

I guess I'm weird. I noticed immediately that there should be two E's and only one A in the word "PAOMNNEHAL" (phenomenal) in the thread title. :rsmile:

The only other thing (also a co-leader situation) was RHYTHM WILLIE, with Herb Ellis on Concord. We're talking about one of the quintessential sidemen in jazz, so I don't really think the idea makes sense.

might actually be we will feature John Coltrane and the quartet , and that they're referring to a multi-artist lineup - Monk's band, Tran'es band, and some kind of Benny Carter group all appearing over the course of a night. Birfland often had multiple bands booked like that. I've seen photos of the signs out front, and the lineups amount to what today would pass for a jazz festival! Well, the explanation may be plausible, but I listened to the announcement over and over again, and he clearly says, "in the Quartet" Dan, it seems to me that even if it sounds exactly like "IN the quartet", it could just as easily be that he's saying " 'n the quartet ". Just a thought. Also, you'd think (or at least I'd think) that he would have used the phrase "sitting in with" to make clear to everybody that something special was going to be happening. Just another thought...

I'm also looking forward to the new season europe, to be enjoyed on FSW (so many reruns of Arsenal matches lately ), but when I think of what's coming in one month, I think of: World Cup qualifying begins August 18 vs Jamaica. I'm not sure we deserve to be #7 in the world, , but it's hard not to be happy about it, I must confess. I just hope we continue to improve, stay competetive with the best teams in the world, and... continue to dominate Mexico! B)

Believe me, I understand your frustration, and I too get frustrated with eBay's policies, but I must say this is pretty tame (and common) stuff. I don't wonder about whether these types lose any sleep. I wonder about people like the seller I encountered recently who was listing pricey ($5K- $10K) archtop guitars that he didn't actually own. He was doing that for at least 6-8 weeks. Actually, I don't even wonder how HE sleeps. I know that some people were born without a conscience. Don't get me started on what's wrong with eBay these days...

Well, I contacted the source that Chaney alerted me to, but alas, they don't actually have it. They apparently used to get it directly from Norton, but they contacted him and he said it's OOP (I've known that for a long time). So... if anybody else has any leads (or has the CD), please let me know. I got an offer for a burn of both LP's, but I'd like to see if I can track down the digital transfer before I go that route. Thanks In the meantime, I'll keep checking eBay...

If it truly is 11 (!) CDs as stated on Jazzmatazz it MUST include lots of unreleased material! There were only 10 LPs and 1 CD with a live concert from the vaults. I'm thinking maybe more live stuff from THE CHASE sessions, which would only be good news. BLUES A LA SUISSE was pretty much the entire set, right? Otherwise, it might mean lots of alternates, and I don't know how excited I'm going to be about that. Also, did Dex do any cameos on Prestige besides on that Booker Ervin date? Oh yeah, the Hampton Hawes Montreux side, right? One cut? What's all the albums anyway? Here's what I know of. Ratings are mine alone, and might seem harsh, but w/Dex, the bar was high, so was he, and sometimes that worked out better than others. The Tower Of Power (****) More Power (*** 1/2) The Panther (*** 1/2) The Chase (*****) The Jumpin' Blues (*****) Ca'Purunge (***) Generation (*** 1/2) Tangerine (***) Blues Ala Suisse (don't remember) the Left Bank thing - not a Prestige side per se, but hey... (haven't ehard yet) Anything else, asides from the two aforementioned cameos? Geez, if they can get 11 cds out of THAT by doing anything other than straight single-album reproductions, and maybe another Left Band date... Somehow I missed this thread back in Feb. I did post here in May, however, on the same topic. Better late than never, and all that. It seems to me there are actually at least 13 likely titles from which this set would be drawn: 1969-04-02,04 -The Tower Of Power! -Prestige 1969-04-02,04 -More Power! -Prestige 1969-05-04 -L. T. D. -Prestige 1969-05-04 -XXL -Prestige 1969-05-10 -A Day In Copenhagen -MPS (but also leased/released by Prestige) 1970-06-18 -At Montreux With Junior Mance -Prestige 1970-07-07 -The Panther -Prestige 1970-07-26 -The Chase! -Prestige 1970-08-27 -The Jumpin' Blues -Prestige 1972-06-22,28 -Tangerine -Prestige 1972-06-28 -Ca'Purange -Prestige 1972-07-22 -Generation -Prestige 1973-07-07 -Blues A La Suisse -Prestige (Only Prestige session not yet out as an individual CD) The Booker Ervin and Hampton Hawes material might pad it up a bit, too... ====== Edit: Actually, the Hawes I'm thinking of now wasn't on Prestige, but Arista (at Montmartre, not Montreux). Am I forgetting something? There was also a PJJ album (on Galaxy) which included an appearance by Dexter, but again, that (like the RESURGENCE album) would seem to be outside the scope of this set, despite the fact that it's owned by Fantasy...

1. I kind of like the beginning (written part) of this piece, but the solos don’t do as much for me. Kind of frantic. Interesting overall sound/instrumentation, though. 2. Donna Lee / piano solo. Interesting, but not something I would choose to play very often. 3. Nice. This has sort of a combination Monk/Ellington mood, to my ears. Is that a cello? Love that sound. Nice piano, and the alto is cool too. This is very tasty stuff. 4. Very interesting, if not really my thing. Somebody really has a talent for writing/arranging here. Difficult music, without a doubt. You gotta respect that, whether it appeals to you or not. 5. I get restless with this type of music. Difficult for me to wait through that intro. The theme is okay, and the solos are good, but not really memorable for me. 6. This is more up my alley, in terms of melody and construction. I don’t recognize it, but it has more of a familiar sound to it. I don’t own much Lee Konitz, but this reminds me of how I think of him. These two players sound very at home together, and this is very nicely recorded. 7. I like this, but I’m not getting any sense of who’s playing. Kind of reminds me of Rhythm-a-ning, but it’s not. I don’t recognize it as a theme that I know, but it’s clever. This reminds me in some ways of Sonny Rollins’ trio stuff. 8. Alone Together. Reminded me of Bill Evans at first, but less so as it went on. Very nice. 9. Don’t really care for the theme on this. Just personal taste. Sounds kind of “mechanical” to me, and not too appealing musically. Well executed overall, but not really my thing. The tenor sounds like Clifford Jordan at times. 10. “They’re writing songs of love, but not for me”. 11. Ahhhhh, this sounds FANTASTIC following that last track. This is based on “body and soul”, but I don’t recognize it. Whoa, this is really more up my alley. At first the sound of the trio reminded me of Bill Charlap, but I’m not going to guess that. Whoever/whatever this is, I’m looking forward to being hipped! (I probably own it already... ) 12. Nice Monkish intro. Nice group sound on the theme. Very nice, in fact. Again, this has a familiar sound to it stylistically, but I don’t recognize it as anything I’ve been familiar with. Very Monkian throughout, apparently (not just the intro). Sounds like a relatively modern recording, in terms of sound quality. Dig that alto player. Dig that trumpet player too. I like it. 13. The intro is a little busy to my ear. Ah, the tune is “Solar”. Not my favorite version. 14. Pretty. I like the guitarist’s sound. Very full and well-defined from top to bottom. I don’t recognize this player, at least not yet. I’ve gotta run right now. Maybe I’ll come back and add more comments on this fine BFT, because I kind of had to rush this whole thing. Bravo, Nate.

I'm in too, Marcus. E-mail on the way...

Thanks Tjazz. I think it's OOP, at least the original CD issue out of the UK. I did some extensive online searches recently, and all the links I found were to "out of stock" item pages. The one at Amazon is a private seller with a dubious record (I don't know much about that Amazon merchant system, but it looks like the seller in quetion has the equivalent of an 80% positive feedback rating), and theirs is very expensive. Board member Chaney did find me another potential source for a CD that's much cheaper, which I'll be investigating. Seems odd if this is a new domestic release, though, because Norton isn't even selling any CD version on his own website. BTW, I still have one of the LP's, and all of the music which I put on cassette 25 years ago. I just want the CD for the cleaner sound (and so I won't have to fool around with burning a CD from my analog recordings). Amoeba is a good suggestion, but I don't get up to SF or Berkeley for CD shopping much anymore.

This may be a bit of a longshot. I'm looking for a CD by Norton Buffalo, which contains two of his Capitol LP's from the late 1970's- LOVIN' IN THE VALLEY OF THE MOON, and DESERT HORIZON. The CD was produced in the UK some years ago. I passed it up at a local shop soon after it came out (kind of pricey at the time, at around $24), and haven't seen it since. If anybody can hook me up with a used copy or a burn (or point me to where I can buy it myself), I would be much obliged.

A good question. Most people seem to like the convenience of AMG, with everything "under one roof", but for those who haven't explored the variety of resources on the internet, be aware that AMG is not the only source of info. I frequently use Google when I'm searching for specific information (for example, the complete track listings for an LP or CD). Most of the time I can find more complete (and more reliable info) someplace online, rather than going to AMG. There are many artist discographies (and collections of artist discographies, such as Mike Fitzgerald's site), labelographies (CD label sites are often a good choice for basic data like personnel and track listings), and also CD review pages at various sites. Sometimes if I'm having trouble locating data for a given recording, I type in a few of the more uncommon track titles (if I have them)... tunes that wouldn't show up on many other recordings- if any. I discovered a Count Basie discography that way once, when I couldn't find any complete data for one of his Mosaics sets. There is a long list of discographical websites that I've saved/bookmarked, which sometimes makes searching for info very simple. I've learned to recognize the url's of sites that use AMG's data or link to AMG. That's the only annoying thing to me about using Google. I also used to use CDDB for some purposes, but that was never a very reliable source.

Well, I'm falling behind this time. I received my disc on Monday, but I haven't even had a chance to listen through it yet. Hopefully I can finish it tonight or tomorrow. Anyway, many thanks to Nate and Catesta for sending it along.

"Noreen's Nocturne" (originally on A DATE WITH THE MASTERSOUNDS) was omitted from the 2002 Mastersounds twofer. Anybody (Brad?) know which tune is missing from the Mance? The booklet doesn't seem to mention it...

"Iris" was omitted from the Benton / OUT OF THIS WORLD material.

Well, I can't say I'm surprised by any of this. Leave it to AMG to put their priorities in the wrong place, and screw things up even more than they already were. I can just access the home page (I ate lunch while it loaded), and I can't even do a basic search with IE 5.1 (I happened to notice that they went from 5 general categories in the basic search on the old site down to 4 on the new one, eliminating the label search option.). There is NO way in hell I would ever pay for their services anyway- I can usually find the info I want one way or another without using AMG. Generally speaking, the idea of looking up to AMG editors as some kind of sage advisors is laughable. We have resources among us here (both in terms of member knowledge as well as various discographies, personal databases and websites), there are some reliable databases online, and we have a discography forum here that could be utilized a lot more than it has been. When it comes to questions related more to opinion and taste (i.e., "recommendataions"), I think a little goes a long way anyway, but the forum is always open, and there ain't many AMG editors who have more experience than some of the people here.

THE LAST SET (PJ 37) contained the almost the same Twardzik tracks as 1212 (the alt take of "a crutch for the crab" was also first issued on PJ 37), and was released around 1962 I believe, not 1955. Perhaps AMG made a mistake?

Weiss has been around a long time, I see. I have him on the Hampton Hawes Saba/MPS session from 1967, as well as a 1963 Ingfried Hoffman session for Philips.