MomsMobley

John was a great goddamn musician-- he could even make you think Stefan Grossman was soulful, which he assuredly is not. check out John's home page & the collage of inspiration he posted; gives good measure of the depths-- inc. much blues & a heavy dose of American Beat-- he was drawing from. http://www.johnrenbourn.co.uk/inspirers/ as noted elsewhere, live John would do a fine version "Buckets of Rain," the only tolerable song from callow, insipid "Blood On The Tracks" and then wash it down with Randy Weston "Little Niles." etc etc

What interests you about his composition compared to those of his like minded avant- contemporaries? Except maybe the 'landmark'(-ish) piano sonatas, Boulez the composer is second rate. He's written relatiely little and then tediously, endlessly fiddled with that not because he's a "perfectionist" but because he has a paucity of ideas, most of which are midding at best. Boulez can be an excellent conductor, though very few of his DG era recordings demonstrate that and even there, the repertoire he's chosen to record has been pretty goddamn middlebrow, for all his ersatz high modernism shuck. Indeed, Boulez's for an erstwhile "radical," Boulez has shown remarkably provincial, pedestrian tastes, especially given his long-term state & corporate subsidized power.

impossible to believe this will be anything but filler and garbage; and "they" waited so long to exacavate why again? because the quality of Satan was so high and there were so many unanswered questions the first time round? 7/4, a week long WKCR Billie festival is lame-- the discography doesn't sustain that level of immersion; compare to the week (or was it two?) they did the Duke centennial (i think it was two), which was never less than thrilling. And even a fucking "Mary Poppins" box set has more potential than three CDs of Satan even if each comes packaged in a custom monogrammed BH Sateen sleeve. Maybe if rumors about the string section breaking out to jam on Korngold's transcription of the Hadyn kazoo quartet prove to be true it might be worth a novelty listen. get behind me satin satin in high heels

Life's too short, world too vast, big music biz nearly always too banal then & now, do yourself a favor by skipping BOTH boxes & buying x # of CDs of new (to you) different repertoire. NONE of the performances by either Graffman or Fleisher or all that compared to best you've already heard elsewhere-- most interesting thing in the Fleisher is actually later one-hand set with the Schmidt & Korngold quintets. Otherwise, why not the Ahmed Adnan Saygun piano concertos? (There's an excellent two-cd set on CPO) granted the Busoni is a half-- maybe less-- a warhorse-- a quarterhorse?-- itself but... it goes places, forwards and back, most of Graff/Fleish don't even suggest-- though they should have.

best brooklyn jazz album cover in history, if dmitry was still around he'd know exactly where this is... some of those live tapes with Monk deserve much wider recognition.

... and what would the music have sounded like? Keepnews put Joe in a lot of different contexts whereas his live gigs were all following the same basic scheme. But, realistically-- i.e. financially-- what options did Joe have? Barely enough work and $$$ to keep a small group going, let alone anything more "ambitious," i.e. costly. 29 April 1972 Billboard https://books.google.com/books?id=mEUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA14&dq=joe%20henderson%20orrin%20keepnews&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q=joe%20henderson%20orrin%20keepnews&f=false "He is working on an lp with Joe Henderson which an amalgam of ideas and technologies. Henderson is a new member of Blood, Sweat and Tears, and his playing of tenor sax, soprano sax, flute and alto sax turns him into his own band. He will play all these instruments on the upcoming Milestone LP*. Multi-tracking and overdubbing will be used to generate an excitement which rock listeners can appreciate." * Black Is The Color

R. Bialek Buys Milestone Line Billboard 2 September 1967 https://books.google.com/books?id=fCgEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA10&dq=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&f=false Audio Fidelity to Distribute Milestone Line Billboard 24 October 1970 (Dick Katz, President, Keepnews back from recording Joe at the Lighthouse) https://books.google.com/books?id=gSkEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA3&dq=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q=milestone%20records%20dick%20katz&f=false Fantasy Adds Milestone Line Billboard 2 December 1972 https://books.google.com/books?id=Ig8EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=fantasy%20milestone%20billboard&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=fantasy%20milestone%20billboard&f=false

Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963 https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler? And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism? Seems highly unlikely but... Makes you wonder, though, what Billboard, politically correctly (??) tried to hint at by stating "The mistakes he might have made were done with the same boldness he built the firm". I think there's little question that Riverside was NOT, at least at certain points, a 'conservatively' run record company; indeed, think of hustling indies in other genres, and of the 1950s/60s independent record biz in general, and that's to be expected. But, it also seems clear it was that very boldness that gave Keepnews the window to do whatever things of merit he actually did. Has there been a Wonderland Records-- Riverside's children's label-- thread before? http://www.discogs.com/label/356330-Wonderland-Records-7 If anyone has the 2 January 1964 "Downbeat" at hand, there was an article on Riverside's bankruptcy there. https://books.google.com/books?id=F6wJAQAAMAAJ&q=grauer+bankruptcy+downbeat&dq=grauer+bankruptcy+downbeat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qCj3VNe0CK7isATWlYDwAw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ $3,056,000 in liabilities $1,300,000 in assets Textile Bank of New York largest creditor Would be interesting for some intrepid scholar to get the federal court records ...

Without Bill Grauer, there's no Riverside "up" to come down-- simple as that. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't know enough about Riverside & its associated labels internal accounting & management to say Grauer was "irresponsible." Lotsa variables there... See these Billboard mag articles 1960-1964 for starters-- https://books.google.com/books?id=4x4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA12&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=LkUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA32&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA32#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=zBMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA30&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963 https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler? And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism? Seems highly unlikely but... Now, if we want to talk about the great Gene Deitch

Duaneiac, I ask this respectfully, why don't you tell us about Bill Grauer & if you have nothing say about Bill Grauer yet... have such a strong feeling for Orrin Keepnews... why might that be? I defy anyone to read Keepnews' book and come away with a "better" opinion of the man-- or the professional-- than they began with. Ironic since much of his life was seemingly devoted to burnishing (inventing?) his own reputation but there you go. Sometimes acute self-conciousness comes out the other end, revealing truths one intended to obscure. *** LK, agreed on the transition of "Kulchur"; I like Berrigan but... I've also been going through the run of Jones/DiPrima "Floating Bear"; I can't recall which-- I think "Kulchur"-- but besides John, it was great to see a terrific poet like Kenneth Irby-- check him out Clifford Thornton, if you don't already know you'll quickly see why I point out) writing about music there-- Ellington I think?

that's it, excellent! I first got into Roy Hawkins via the Route 66 lp, "Why Does Everything Happen To Me?" but reason that came to mind besides the B.B. connection is underknown guitarist Ulysses James, who plays on a bunch of those sides. Here's a good little appreciation of both-- http://sundayblues.org/archives/50/comment-page-1

Tom, the DJ was the great Mitch Goldman, close friend & I believe former tour manager for Shannon Jackson, among myriad other credits. His "Deep Focus" programs are almost uniformly great, though I recall a Jarrett show and maybe sentimental-era Charlie Haden that did nothing to persuade me I shouldn't dislike/not listen to their respective musics.

DG, while we're on slight detour, you know Texas-to-California bluesman Roy Hawkins, si? Not just "The Thrill Is Gone"!

And how could it be otherwise? https://books.google.com/books?id=jk3Bx7KfdO8C&lpg=PA295&dq=orrin%20keepnews&pg=PA295#v=onepage&q=orrin%20keepnews&f=false "The guy thought he knew everything. He talked all the time and never listened." -- Randy Weston btw, I discovered Keepnews ridiculousness from an impeccable source-- himself, when in ignorance I bought his book at some Half Price Books years ago, pre- jazz bulletin boards so all one "knew" was public writing and whatever level of personal/scene experience one had. Bet we could do, say... a Lester Koenig thread and nobody would have a cross word or anecdote. # of times Keepnews is mentioned in Arthur Taylor's "Notes and Tones": precisely zero, which is, I suppose, better than being castigated but perhaps also indicative of his "importance" and certainly his affability/empathy (as opposed to paternalism.)

zero knowledge of or interest in the movie but it sure seems whenever Iverson tries to "think"... it's dopey effusion time, no matter his better intentions. (Just like his band's many crap recordings do NOT matter... save perhaps to exemplify the precise argument of "mere" chops versus __________ he's trying to make. Could be why dude's so "sensitive"? (I dislike Iverson's nomenclature and refuse to 'trade fours' with it here.) I trust Iverson "means well" but he really needs to slow down, read more history-- both books and contemporary writing about/advertising for popular music, live and recorded-- and listen to a lot more recorded music 1890-1923... not a typo but if Iverson ponders what was recorded then, by whom and why he might be able to figure some things out without resort to nonsensical overassertion. Rhetorical Q: how many times has Iverson read "The Souls of Black Folk"? At least once I'd reckon but... is once enough? Chauncey Morehouse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6O6IJ1tPA Ray Bauduc

Ah, the Bill Grauer thread--

also-- http://www.northjersey.com/news/his-life-s-work-is-a-melody-of-images-1.1031318 and, lest we forget the creator of the single greatest jazz (& more) photography book there can ever be, "The Sound I Saw" by Roy DeCarava-- http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/arts/29decarava.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Here's my review of Keepnews' book "The View From Within," which has some memoir material but no secrets, no intimacy at all: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/02/books/in-short-nonfiction-in-short-nonfiction.html I'm very grateful to him for the Riverside, Milestone, and Landmark sessions he supervised. But I wish a more careful person had produced the Fantasy reissues beginning in the 1970s, and I wish a more careful person had produced the Bluebird, Decca, and other reissue series Keepnews produced for CDs. Thanks for this, John. Was reading this thread thinking that those feeling sentimental for Keepnews had not read his book, which is mostly awful and evidence, were one curious, that Orrin's biggest fan was... certainly Orrin and not-- by all evidence to date-- the musicians his association with Bill Grauer first enabled him to work with. Yes, OK's name is on some swell records and I'm happy that, say, Johnny Griffin's varied Riverside dates exist but... sidenote: been going issue by issue (at the library) through "Kulchur" magazine and it's great to see you there!

you think? i know Loren has to sing for his supper-- and I've enjoyed some of his writing elsewhere-- but that's... rather hard to take, on numerous levels. the mandolin part alone from Arnold Schoenberg "Serenade" greater than all those schlubs put together, Albert Murray's few lucid insights included.

lawanda page jeri southern (just a 'slightly' better standards/jazz influened pop singer than boob dylan, just a bit)

Gotcha LK. And of course Christie such an institution in France few early musicians would want to cross him but musically at least, the results are mostly exemplary. I still rate Rousset pretty well; his Couperin especially stands, I think, and fwiw, though I do enjoy Blandine Rannou greatly, I do recall that Forqueray set as being quite idiosyncratic-- and perhaps revelatory for being so? Agree with Rousset the conductor, have been a fan since the mid-90s when I stumbled upon his recordings of Handel "Scipione" and Jomelli "Armida Abandonata" on the FNAC label. Do you know the Ketil Haugsand Forqueray set on Simax?

Blake, thanks for the thoughtful reply; I know the work of your namesake very very well, from his first sides with Coot Grant onward, so I take your views with appropriate seriousness. That said, I absolutely stand by the statement thay for heartsong etc, those two R & L Thomspon records destroy "BOTT" which is blowzy, insincere, altnerately self-pitying and bitter, poetically and "intellectually" (sic) muddled and the music is mostly boring crap. The singing, if you care to isolate it, is, I admit, fairly strong but that's not enough. Whereas "I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight" and "Pour Down Like Silver" are nuanced, multifaceted, dynamic, both subtle and driving.... Neither Dylan's isolation nor the dogshit 1974 Band tour did him any good btw; "BOTT" tripe one reaction, "Desire" another though some of the Rolling Thunder Review shows were strong (MUCH stronger than that Band tour.) People get so invested in the idea of Dylan's fecundity that they ascribe him way too much credit; yeah, Fairport covered Dylan-- and Leonard Cohen, and Joni Mitchell etc. Others have addressed this but people pulling out '62-'67 Dylan to 'defend' or at deflect attention away from his 1970s are missing the point. And greatly diminishing the collective creative moment that was folk/rock/pop say '64-'74 (speaking loosely). As for Martin Carthy, a terrific musician but just because Zimmy copied him doesn't mean he 'invented' those tunes anymore than Robert Burns might have. (And re-reading Burns is far more salutary than re-reading Bob.) Q: Who's copying whom here? Hmmmmmmm...

Depending where one lives and travels too, some of the best-- and best deals-- in chamber music can heard in college/university music schools, usually, if not always for FREE. I can't remember where I saw it-- American Organist magazine maybe?-- but I've even seen ads about retiring to Oberlin and/or Bloomington because of the music schools' concert programs. (Ghost of Miles in Bloomington too.) speaking of chamber music

twice correct, thank you LK... I forgot-- willfully?-- the conductor book; thus Gunther made himself a target, so be it! I greatly enjoyed Norman del Mar "Anatomy of the Orchestra" however.