EKE BBB

Damned it! My wife was at the f****g telephone... and I missed post 100k. This is 100.005. Who got it?

Shit, I must go now! Save a piece of cake and a couple of beers for me!!!

Yeah, the 100.000 post must be in theBABE thread

One of my favorite Abbey Lincoln albums. Abbey, Stan, Hank Jones (p), Charlie Haden ( b ), Mark Johnson (d)... and Maxine Roach on viola on two tracks

99948 at 18:10 GMT+1

You´ve got a new PM, Volkher

Damn it! We couldn´t make it! The empire rises over us! Uhhhh!

shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 I just finished listening to the Oscar Peterson material in Verve’s Lester Young box and the most disturbing thing happened. I never noticed before, but… Prez makes liberal use of a figure or pattern that, once identified, makes it hard to concentrate on anything else (Tatum’s cascading runs have the same effect on me). At first, I thought it was some kind of tension building device, but when it continued into the next song and then the next, I had to turn the stuff off. Unlike Laughin’ To Keep From Cryin’, Prez’s solos still tell a coherent story despite the repetition. Or does the repetition act like glue, holding his solos together? Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 03:54 AM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by hadi·blues Prez makes liberal use of a figure or pattern that, once identified, makes it hard to concentrate on anything else (Tatum’s cascading runs have the same effect on me). At first, I thought it was some kind of tension building device, but when it continued into the next song and then the next, I had to turn the stuff off. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Is it one note pattern with different sounding of each note repeating, may I ask? If it is, I have just different story of finding that pattern in improvisation while listening how can it sound. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 06:25 AM EKE BBB jazz seeker Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 887 Thanks for bringing "the LY lost pages" back, Milan! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 08:10 AM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 mmilovan,“Just You, Just Me,” for example, is riddled with this 6 or 7-note figure. I’ve a strong suspicion it’s a favorite or “signature” pattern since Prez’s days with Basie whose frequency, for whatever reason, mushroomed out of control. Sure wish I had the ability to describe it in more detail. My first thought was to go back and listen to other Prez recordings for the same pattern, but I backed away. The last thing I want to do is sit in a corner counting occurrences instead of enjoying Prez. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 11:45 AM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 hadi·blues, Yours observation surely is interesting, - still I don't now to what "Just You, Just Me" version you refer to. But, it is always matter of taste. Some people like Pres, some like Bird, other like other people that gave them idea of perfect emotions in perfect world. Pres is surely not the player to lull someone's ears, at the times he can be bitter and hard to follow. Anyway, I've never noticed that pattern, while I've noticed one note repeating (as well as other people did) - it is not the same as r&b saxophonist can do that one note thing, Pres always told us stories with that repeating device, building whole lot of melody, tension to resolve, rhythmic ideas to flow. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 03:28 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 655 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan hadi·blues, Anyway, I've never noticed that pattern, while I've noticed one note repeating (as well as other people did) - it is not the same as r&b saxophonist can do that one note thing, Pres always told us stories with that repeating device, building whole lot of melody, tension to resolve, rhythmic ideas to flow. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This has nothing to do with Hadi's observation..just a comment on the honking bit We talked about this on another thread ( maybe this one but the way the boards have been attacked.. who knows) so it may be a bit repetitave.. but... Pres was the " father" of honking.. the repeated notes were the result of "false fingering" creating an added rhythmic pulse to his solo lines. Became a bit of a Pres trade mark. Later sax players took it to more extravagant extremes leading to the R&B type thing. There is a JATP recording that has Pres preceding Jacquet, as Benny Green points out in the notes, Pres towards the end of his solo, inserts some more forceful honks just to let Jacquet know he knew what was coming from his "honking son"... thats not Greens exact words just my interpretation of an event he draws attention too. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 03:56 PM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 I nearly feel like we’re three blind men talking about an elephant, but in an effort to be more clear… “Just You, Just Me”; Lester Young, Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, Ray Brown, JC Heard; Recorded on November 28, 1952; Disk 2, track 16 of box set, or track 3 of With the Oscar Peterson Trio. No, it’s not a single repeated note, nor is there any honking involved. It’s a fast 6 or 7-note sequence. Prez will sometimes vary the sequence speed, number of notes or which note is emphasized, but this single musical idea reappears numerous times throughout the song (and the session). mmilovan, I can email a 7.75KB MP3 example of the figure –if you’re interested. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 08:10 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 655 In that solo Pres uses a " quote" type variation on "Younger Than Springtime" the "A" section of that song. He seems to imply it in the opening choruses but really hits on it a lot in his closing chorus ( after Kessel) repeating the phrase with slight variations in note length and spacing, about three or four times. This might be what you are hearing. once it catches your attention just about all of this version of Just You, becomes almost an Ode to Younger Than Springtime... Pres must have had something on his mind........ Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 08:27 PM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 hadi-blues, Mmmmm, OP date from 1952, my favourite one! OK, pardon me, for my misunderstanding you. If you can email me at: mmilovan@yubc.net with attachment provided, I will be most grateful - just to exactly know what we are talking about. Then I can put comment that makes more sense (speaking about the subject). Thanks. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 08:38 PM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 mp3 figure forwarded! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 08:52 PM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 PD, I don’t seem to have a copy of “Younger Than Springtime.” Is it a Savoy cut, or maybe an out-of-print Columbia track? Maybe it is a reference to another song, but if so, it seems strange that Prez would recycle the quote so many times, and on other Prez/Peterson numbers, too. Sent the mp3 clip your way. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 12:17 AM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 655 I wasn't referring to a Pres recording of " Younger than" but that he quotes it in his Just you solo.. head on after the Kessel solo. After you hear the quote, which he repeats often but varied in his out chorus, and then play the whole Just you again, it seems as if he alludes to it through out his opening choruses. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 12:34 AM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 Ah! I understand. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 12:50 AM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 655 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by hadi·blues Ah! I understand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But that ain't the phrase on the MP3 Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 02:11 AM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 Shawn, to be honest, I don't find this lick disturbing, and to be more punctual, that figure never occurred and waved back in my mind while listening to Lester. For that reason, I don't find it disturbing if I can put it in that way. But I clearly understand what you would like to tell to us. In adititon to citation thing, just like to tell how I noticed that Pres quoted so often, just as other great names (Bird and Dex come to mind). His earliest citation that I've noticed came from 1942 Nat Cole session - "Tea For Two" phrase in "Body And Soul". Maybe there are earliest examples, don't know. It worked fine there. PDEE many thanks you've heard that one mentioned in "Just You, Just Me"! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 04:01 AM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 PD, and yet I still understood! mmilovan, fair enough. Unfortunately I think my ears are now tuned to seek it out. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 04:05 AM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 Shawn, I also sent you an email with some extra clips provided... Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 04:36 AM shawn-m pysmatic morologist Registered: Mar 2003 Location: bothell, wa Posts: 580 Milan, Just found it and replied! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-23-2003 05:06 AM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 shawn, still havent find a way to put clips on some URL to discuss them all together (you know those that explain begining of free ) Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 11-22-2003 06:58 PM

mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Was he relative to Lou Levy? Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 11:22 PM Saundra Hummer Senior Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: West Coast Posts: 470 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan Was he relative to Lou Levy? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! You know, not that I know of, different spelling, though that doesn't always mean everything. You should write to him about Lester Young, he could probably answer a lot of your questions about him, as I am sure he probably knew him pretty well. Couldn't hurt to try. Send me an email about it. __________________ Sandi from Hermosa Beach Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 11:42 PM Tenorman Senior Member Registered: Jun 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 320 I think that it is safe to say that Stan Levey and Lou Levy were not related. I checked them both out in Groves, which is usually very good at mentioning any relatives (even God parents/children) who have anything to do with the music industry, but there was nothing Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 11:54 PM Oldtimer Senior Member Registered: Jul 2003 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 112 I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but Mary Lou Williams personal account of the famous 1933 Kansas City "Cutting Contest" between Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young is quoted in her biography "Morning Glory" She said: "The word went around that Hawkins was in the Cherry Blossom Club where the high rollers like to hang out, and within about an hour there were Lester Young, Ben Webster, Hershel Evens, Herman Walder and one or two other tenors piling into the club, I happened to be nodding that night and went home to sleep. Around 4 A.M., I awoke to hear someone pecking at my screen. I opened the window on Ben Webster. He was saying, 'Get up, pussycat, we're jammin' and all the other pianists are tired out now. Hawkins has got his shirt off and is still blowin'. You got to come down. Sure enough, when we got there Hawkins was in his singlet taking turns with the Kaycee men. It seems he had run into something he didn't expect. Lester's style was light and it took him maybe five choruses to warm up. But then he would really blow; then you couldn't handle him on a cutting session. That was how Hawkins got cut up. The Henderson band was playing in St. Louis that evenng, and Ben knew Hawk had to be on the way. But he kept trying to blow everything to beat Ben and Herschel and Lester. When at last he gave up, he got straight in his car and drove to St. Louis. I heard he had just bought a new Cadillac and that he burnt it out trying to make the job on time." For some other recollections of this legendary session, check out http://www.jerryjazzmusician.com/ma...ncounters3.html Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-22-2003 01:57 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Honestly, I never saw this online, but now it is available: http://www.magnumphotos.com/ LESTER YOUNG BAND. from left to right : Harold WEST (drums), Nick FENTON (double basss), Shad COLLINS (trumpet), Clyde HART (piano), Lester YOUNG (tenor saxophone), John COLLINS (guitar). USA. New York City. Kelly's Stables. 1941 mmilovan has attached this image: Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-26-2003 08:51 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Cool photos, it is said that these photos originated from 1956, but somewhere I saw they were from famous 1952 Eckstine jamm session: mmilovan has attached this image: Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-26-2003 08:56 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 This one too: mmilovan has attached this image: Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-26-2003 08:57 AM EKE BBB jazz seeker Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 869 Wonderful photos, Milan! That magnum website is a superb source for all of us who love jazz photography! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-26-2003 09:12 AM brownie Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: paris, france Posts: 223 Many of the photos available at the Magnum site come from the collection of Frank Driggs. That collection is huge. I had a look at it a couple of years ago when I visited the Magnum headquarters in Paris. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-26-2003 10:19 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Oh, man, how nice it would be to have time machine to transfer you in front of that Kelly Stable's bandstand! Looking at the members of the band and knowing something about theirs sensitive approaches to playing, one can easily get to conclusion the band dynamically sounds like early MJQ, or something like that! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-27-2003 07:04 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Of course, if someone wants to hear the magic, he can listen to famous Una Mae Carlisle session from march, 1941 where her interesting voice is bacgrounded by the mentioned band itself. I like "Blitzkrieg Baby" especially (and I've read that Ruby Braff owned in his youth that record with "Beautiful Eyes" on side B, and worn it to death). It's a pitty the band lived quite short amount of time, and recorded so small. It was death of Lester's father caused Lester to move to the West Coast. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-27-2003 07:25 AM Lonson Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 291 I'm a tremendous fan of Una Mae Carlisle, I have all the cd appearances of her material, and even in duplicate (i. e. I have the RCA double cd and also the same material on Classics, the Harlequin cd and also the same material on Classics). I wish one day that more would be released, including the supposedly unissued sides she did for Columbia, and her Soundies recordings. . . . Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-27-2003 01:05 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Was she a singer only, because this setting indroduces her as such. It is Lester Young (first) band backing her singinig. Anyway, these are gorgeous pieces of combo music. One can only wonder how it sounds alive. Rhythm is so nice, four in a bar solid beat, while Clyde Hart doing his Count Basie role effectively. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-27-2003 05:46 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Just to let know people interested in this subject that we have on http://www.harlem.org/ honored guests - in fact Lester's granddaughter (if I understood correctly) posted here: http://www.harlem.org/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000001.html These boards are simply great! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-27-2003 09:24 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 Another photo, never seen it before: mmilovan has attached this image: Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-03-2003 05:18 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 220 I posted this on organissimo, but I found it interesting to repost it right here, if someone is interested in discussion. To be honest, there are only 3 sessions on that Verve box, where Pres was loaded I think, still he produced great moments: 1955 session with Peterson, one 1957 session and other clarinet session (issued as separate disc as: "Laughing to Keep from Crying"). So I wont refer to them. All of the others (and the last one too) are clean! 1950 and 1951 dates (with John Lewis - few people ever discussed them) produces one of the greatest blues ever: "Slowmotion Blues", 1952 with Peterson date is masterpiece per se, as well as 1956. And of course Nat Cole date from 1946. And last one 1959 date, I found Pres all right, despite some cutting done by critic! But, there in Paris, according to sources he stopped drinking and he was happy with engagement, at least - in first time. Miles fans, please listen to Pres on this one. He is just like Miles. Great sense for silence and melodic invention. Listen and don't allow the critic tells you what to listen, and what quality of music is. Ask your hart about it. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by lazy bird I'm looking after Lester Young galleries. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lazy bird, Just to mention one good starting point: http://mosaicgallery.com/ I will back with more links and online resources, because (as Lester Young's freak) I collected them for past two years, maybe even more. The one that I can remember easily is collection of great musician in house with deformed mirrors. These shots have been taken around 1958. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-05-2003 07:39 PM Saundra Hummer Senior Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: West Coast Posts: 465 Great Photo's and wow, the prices are still up there! Would be nice to have! __________________ Sandi from Hermosa Beach Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-07-2003 02:46 AM brownie Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: paris, france Posts: 204 mmilovan, if you list Lester galleries, make sure you include this one (it's in French): Lester in Paris The photos were taken in Paris in 1956 by Daniel Filipacchi who was a jazzfan and a photographer at Paris-Match at the time. Filipacchi had a very successful career and later became the owner and publisher of Paris-Match. About a Lester Young/Gil Evans link, weren't both stationed in the same unit during WWII when Lester went through his 'D.B. Blues' problems? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-10-2003 08:04 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by brownie About a Lester Young/Gil Evans link, weren't both stationed in the same unit during WWII when Lester went through his 'D.B. Blues' problems? I'm sure I read that somewhere. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course they were, but Gill was close friend with Lester for about three years before (L&LY band), according to sources and Evans' statements. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-10-2003 01:16 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 Those Filipacchi photos are great, I like that one with flute player (someone said it was Mezz Mezzrow) and with Pres in some cafe. These are rare photos of LY while not on bandstand, it is an illustration of his real life. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-10-2003 01:56 PM EKE BBB jazz seeker Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 719 Some more links to Pres photos: Club Kaycee http://www.music123.com/Item/?itemno=83027 http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/verv...st.asp?aid=2708 http://www.jerryjazzmusician.com/ma...encounters.html http://www.riverwalk.org/proglist/s...o/prez_lady.htm http://www.nypl.org/research/sc/scl/giftxt.html http://www.dcjazz.com/photo/lester.htm http://airjudden.tripod.com/jazz/lesteryoung.html Album covers (large size) I guess mmilovan has most (if not all) of them Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-12-2003 10:35 AM EKE BBB jazz seeker Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 719 Jamie Reid´s "Rhapsody: Lester´s sound" poem Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-12-2003 10:46 AM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 509 peter rh has attached this image: Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-15-2003 08:46 PM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 509 This quote from Lester Leaps In by Douglas Henry Daniels may or may not be of interest to fans of Earle Warren's singing! "For example, (Lester) Young disliked Earle Warren's singing; when the alto saxophonist sang "Where Are You", the entire band backed him like a "choral group", except for Young,who"would stand on tiptoe,(and)... make out like he was singing very soulfully".The rest of the band would begin laughing while Warren continued singing,hating such antics.Behind Young's comedy lay a serious purpose: to ridicule someone or something he didn't like to the point that that person or thing was removed from the show." ------------------- Just in case anybody gets the wrong impression from this item,Lester was considered to have a great sense of humour and Earle Warren is amongst many fellow musicians who gave Lester high praise both as a person and player.The Basie Band of the 30/40s also had a group of senior musicians(incl. Lester) called the Vigilantes - this group took the neccessary steps to sabotage items they didn't feel happy with! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 07:17 PM Munch Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 96 peter rh, Thanks for that superb Lester image. It now features on my desktop. Earl Warren's singing made me wince, and it's not often I wince, except maybe when I used to play football and I would be caught by a full back or midfielder who were very adept at aiming kicks at the sorest of places. Earl does almost reach some credibility however on two Jubilee Show tracks, but his efforts are instantly forgettable due to the Lester Young solo work and the Basie power on the other tracks. Some talk here of Lester and R and B, he does boot it up some on a 1952 Jazz At The Philharmonic track, Jam Session Blues, and Barney Kessel gets some dirty riffs in as well. I played some Pres JATP last night, and came across the 1953 Carnegie Hall, 'One O'Clock Jump', where there is a mix up and Pres is almost forgotten about. Charlie Shavers comes in for his solo before the finale and takes one chorus before realising Pres hasn't blown a note yet. When he does wake up and enters the fray it is superb Pres, so much so that a member of the audience yells out loudly, "Yeah, Pres!" The eight horns on this track are maybe the most ever on stage for a JATP jam session? Also, (a bit of useless information), the track Cool Blues, but minus Pres, clocks in at 25 minutes. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 08:43 PM Saundra Hummer Senior Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: West Coast Posts: 465 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan Those Filipacchi photos are great, I like that one with flute player (someone said it was Mezz Mezzrow) and with Pres in some cafe. These are rare photos of LY while not on bandstand, it is an illustration of his real life. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do any of you know that Stan Levey who was the drummer at the Lighthouse, and who also played with Charlie Parker and other greats, is a photographer, and there just may be some photos by him of some of your favorites? He has a web site, and is very responsive to jazz fans, and I would imagine that there just might be some little known favorite photo's of your favorite musicians that he could tell you about, or even some that he has taken himself. An all around good guy, drop him an email. He's on google, or his son is. Bob Levey. __________________ Sandi from Hermosa Beach Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 09:04 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 Peter, nice anecdote with Warren (but that one with "Matches" was even greater)! PDEE will like it! Munch, great points, and you certainly have rich collection - just to mention it would be great to have all these JATP's reissued, but I doubt it would be the case. Speaking of Lester's R&B while listening JATP 1944-49 I've noticed that Lester always used typical tenor R&B devices such as screams, long and short repeated notes and licks as structural devices - not as effects! You can easily hear that if you compare Lester solos and let's say Flip's Philips! And that is why he is so great. Small question for all: Anyone closer analyzed "Mean To Me" solo from Columbia Billie Holiday date? My intention is not to bring easy conclusions, but I can hear Charlie Parker double tempo leaps and rhythm organization on that particular take, especially at the beginning of second A and third 8 bars section (first chorus). Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 09:53 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 I think that Earle Warren was very good sax section leader, despite his terrible singing. You can listen to any solo spot he has in OT Basie band and can hear good and capable solo work. And he can double and play very well clarinet, with feeling and recognizable sound (that reminds me to PW Russell)! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 10:05 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Posts: 794 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan I think that Earle Warren was very good sax section leader, despite his terrible singing. You can listen to any solo spot he has in OT Basie band and can hear good and capable solo work. And he can double and play very well clarinet, with feeling and recognizable sound (that reminds me to PW Russell)! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with this not down on Earle for his non vocal participation in the Basie crew. MEAN To ME... Pres' solos on the diferent takes, are so different thatit persaued tme to buy the recent Columbia Holiday box. Years ag I had the Holidays.. played so much that I knew the tracks, Mean to Me especially , off by heart.. then one day I'm listening and am toally thrown off from my "scat mumbling" by Pres' solo I was really dissappointed that the Quintessential Columbias didn't contain alts. The Japanese version too expensive to justify replacement, but had to do it when the new Columbia box was released. ..all just for a chorus of Pres. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 10:29 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by PDEE MEAN To ME... Years ag I had the Holidays.. played so much that I knew the tracks, Mean to Me especially , off by heart.. then one day I'm listening and am toally thrown off from my "scat mumbling" by Pres' solo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are not the only one who mumbles by heart this music gems. To be more precise: in previous post I refered to master take of "Mean To Me! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-20-2003 10:59 PM brownie Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: paris, france Posts: 204 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Saundra Hummer Do any of you know that Stan Levey who was the drummer at the Lighthouse, and who also played with Charlie Parker and other greats, is a photographer, and there just may be some photos by him of some of your favorites? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sandi, thanks for the tip. Will look for the Stan Levey photos. Loved the cover he shot of himself, Victor Feldman and Scott LaFaro for the Contemporary album 'The Arrival of Victor Feldman'. The West Coast scene looked real happy at the time. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 07:27 AM Munch Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 96 It's only fair that after praising the playing of Pres, and wincing somewhat about the singing of Earl Warren, that I right matters on my own thoughts about Earl's alto offerings. I was pleasantly surprised the first time I saw him, away from the Basie band by this time, and part of a Jazz Package tour. He swung the joint on every solo, and his feature, the unlikely 'Secret Love', was torn apart and made respectable by alto playing at it's hottest. I never got the chance to see him with Basie but his playing was, IMO, equally brilliant. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 07:36 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 173 It is interesting to analyze how many great soloists had that OT Basie band! Another, little known was Jack Washington on baritone sax. Members of the band often used to emphasize how nice he was. If anyone interested one can hear him on various titles, and well-known small band session "Somebody Stole My Girl". But all this is idea for separate thread! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 07:50 PM Munch Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 96 Sandi, Thanks for the info on Stan Levey. I will check it out soon. I always check out the West Coast stuff, especially when Stan Levey or Shelly Manne are the drum chair occupants. Stan Levey, if I recall, boxed as a heavyweight at one time? Seems like there must be something about boxing, drumming, and tap dancing. Must be rhythm. I can't dance much, I drummed at slow tempo, and was kayoed once by an Army cruiserweight who cheated, he hit me before the bell went!! But, I sure as hell got rhythm!! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-21-2003 07:58 PM Saundra Hummer Senior Member Registered: Apr 2003 Location: West Coast Posts: 465 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Munch Sandi, Thanks for the info on Stan Levey. I will check it out soon. I always check out the West Coast stuff, especially when Stan Levey or Shelly Manne are the drum chair occupants. Stan Levey, if I recall, boxed as a heavyweight at one time? Seems like there must be something about boxing, drumming, and tap dancing. Must be rhythm. I can't dance much, I drummed at slow tempo, and was kayoed once by an Army cruiserweight who cheated, he hit me before the bell went!! But, I sure as hell got rhythm!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Munch and Brownie! Stan was a boxer, and I remember how some of the patrons used to comment on how tough he looked, but you know, he was really a sweetheart. The best to be around, and I don't think there is anyone nicer. Never heard a mean word or saw a mean look ever come on his face. He has two sons now, both of whom are doctors, isn't that great? Raised them by himself I believe. Saw the youngest one and held him when he was just a baby. A newborn really. I was worried about the music being too loud for him, so put some cotton that I had in his ears. That or a cocktail napkin, and I think it was cotton that I carried extra of to pad my foot. I had forgotten all about that, but this site is pulling up more and more of my old memories. Can't believe they are grown and as old as they are. So you see, time flies. Stan retired from playing in 1973, like I had said earlier, and he says music has changed, and to my untrained ear it really has, not that it shouldn't, just natural for it to, I just never get tired of listening to the "Old Jazz," so I will probably never hear enough of the new to really appreciate it. Good luck finding pictures, hope Stan has something you will want. I would love to sit down and talk to him again, and hear some of the funny stories I know he has to tell. __________________ Sandi from Hermosa Beach Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 12:10 AM

mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 lazy bird Senior Member Registered: Dec 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 294 I'm looking after Lester Young galleries. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-04-2003 10:34 AM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Posts: 749 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan PDEE, are postwar live broadcasts included in the book? I've noticed on the other hand that glorious Pres sessions with John Lewis, Jo Jones and Gene Ramey (actually two sessions from Jan. and March 1951) for Verve are pretty rare mentioned - although they produced some of the most important music beside sides with Peterson 1952 and Wilson in 1956. The take I like so much is "Slow Motion Blues" from March 1951. Great 3 blues coruses made so nice, that left you in a thought what Pres learned from King Oliver. Nicest blues side ever made, IMO! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes the whole is chronologically arranged, broadcasts included.. the sessions are numbered, a total of 254 sets ( some are only one tune.. odball broadcasts) Slo Motion is there. It is one of the many tunes that carry a transcription.. if you are interested I colud scan it and try to send it to you via email, Note this is not an open offer to all and sundry... don't want to spend the rest of my life in front of the computer A quick count shows about 450 different song titles.. now thats hundreds.. I just got off the Beatles threads... many rcorded more than once by Pres, but thats 450 titles which feature sonme solo involvement be it 4 bars or three or four choruses. AS I said above, might be a boring read, but i's a fascinating, and to me valuable reference document of an important Jazz Musician Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-04-2003 05:48 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by PDEE Slo Motion is there. It is one of the many tunes that carry a transcription.. if you are interested I colud scan it and try to send it to you via email, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PDEE, thanks a lot... According to yours description, these are two valuable and hard researched books. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-06-2003 01:15 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 Just a few searches through e bay and I found something that I do not find in usual disography: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...;category=43690 (Bird with Pres from 1950, live???) and this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...p;category=2266 JATP, 1950, promotional material... Never heard about those two. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-19-2003 10:25 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Posts: 749 Pres and Bird only seemed to play together withJATP Looking at the track listing of the Ebay CP record it looks like a comp of tracks from other CP Lps. I don't think they play together ''Happy Bird Blues is, for example from the Happy Bird Lp.. with Wardell on tenor Destination Moon was on a CP Lester Young LP. This is one of those mis leading LP covers.. of which CP records did a lot and the sellers description does nothing to enlighten, unenlightened buyers. The other one is probably the date from DEC 11 1952 both titles were recorded at that date with that personnel they are tracks 10 and 15 0n disc 3 ot the verve Pres box Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-19-2003 11:58 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 Charlie Parker Label often covered live (bootleg) material. I've just consulted Lewis Porter's book - live material from Savoy Ballroom (February 22, 1950) is on Charlie Parker PLP 402, CP 504, PLP 405 - but, as Porter said: "It appears that these titles derive from more than one night"). Porter also put these discographical informations: "Sept. 16, 1950. NYC, Concert Carnegie Hall, the titles are: "Norgran Blues, Lady be Good , A Ghost of a Chance, Indiana". On BNBB board someone (JSngry???) said that live playing from this particular (Savoy Ballroom date) are some of the best Lester ever - maybe, I don't know. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-20-2003 03:15 PM Oldtimer Member Registered: Jul 2003 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 45 I am a long time Lester Young fan and, in addition to a number of other albums, I recently acquired the 4CD Box Set issued by Proper Records of England that contains 84 tracks by Pres from 1936 to 1949. Included also is a 51 page booklet with pictures, biographyand liner notes. As with many of these sets from England, the sound is quite good. The last few selections are from Lester's JATP concert at Carnegie Hall, September 18, 1949 where he plays with Charlie Parker, Flip Phllips, Roy Eldrige, Hank Jones, Ray Brown and Buddy Rich. Besides his earlier Basie and Teddy Wilson/Billie Holiday recordings - many of which are also included in the Proper Box set, my favorite albums are: The 1945 Sessions with Buddy Rich and Nat King Cole. This album has many nostalgic memories for me. It was my first introduction to the genius of Lester Young back in the late 40's and, over the years, I have probably listened to it countless times. The 1952 Sessions with Barney Kessel and the Oscar Peterson Trio. Again, one of my early favorites. The Best of Lester Young from Pablo Records. Pres Meets Teddy, 1956 sessions. IMHO Even though his tone is darker than earlier in his career, Pres still sounds magnificent in these recordings. In the earlier thread, mention was made of the influence of Tram on Pres. Recently I came across this pertinent passage in a History of Jazz by Donald Clarke: "Inspired by the pretty sound and thoughtful craftmanship of Frankie Trumbauer on C-melody saxophone, Young's style was lyrical and linear; he said that in a ballad he liked to keep the words of the song in mind. He had a unique tone without much vibrato, and played at the high end of the instrument's range, sometimes sounding like an alto instead of a tenor. His swing was incomparable, and he became one of the most influential musicians of the century.....a lighter alternative to the big-toned chromatic Coleman Hawkins style of tenor saxophone which was then popular." Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-21-2003 02:11 AM clifton Senior Member Registered: Oct 2002 Location: Clifton Hts., Pa Posts: 378 Probably the best news for Pres fans is the imminent Columbia 4-CD Basie set. It will include such great performances as "Easy Does It", "I Never Knew", and the 1936 Jones-Smith Inc. session, which was Lester's first appearance on record. For late Pres, I recommend "Giants Of Jazz 1956" on Verve, which includes Vic Dickenson and Roy Eldridge. Also I'm pretty sure the sessions from Olivia Davis' Patio Lounge in 1956 are available on CD, either on Verve or Pablo. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-21-2003 02:26 AM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Posts: 749 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan Charlie Parker Label often covered live (bootleg) material. Porter also put these discographical informations: "Sept. 16, 1950. NYC, Concert Carnegie Hall, the titles are: "Norgran Blues, Lady be Good , A Ghost of a Chance, Indiana". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's true that most of the Lester Young on the CP label was from broadcasts / live dates.. generally not well recorded. I don't quite follow where you are going with this. Lady Be Good is not on the CP Lp.. it's on a Norgran 78, coupled with Can't We be Friends.. both were recorded at the date I listed above, so I doubt very much that this 78 is from anywhere but the recording studio. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-21-2003 04:16 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 PDEE, probably, I wasn't so explicit while getting these informations here. My intention was to clear that there were CP label that issued live 1950 date from Savoy. The other thing is the second sentence - I tried to clear 78's that I found on auction on ebay - so I thought it might belong to live date mentioned in my post. But I was quite unsuccessful in doing this, so my apologies. Oldtimer, PDEE, clifton, others... (this is something new) Speaking of 1946 Nat Cole date issued on Verve 521 650-2, that I have, I do not really know why authors of reissue put the same "Back To The Land" twice (one version is slightly different from another at the beginning, that was edited out on second take). Cafe Bohemia dates is as good as Olivia Davis' Patio Lounge date. The same thing with misunderstanding discography here - something was put together, edited and etc. One can probably spend hours of putting thing straight. I've heard (rumors, probably) about alternates of Johnes/Smith date. I know that only Shoe Shine Boy/Swing exists in that form. Maybe, Columbia/Legacy knows it better. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-21-2003 07:09 PM clifton Senior Member Registered: Oct 2002 Location: Clifton Hts., Pa Posts: 378 There was a 1946 JATP concert that came out on vinyl as "Early Modern", issued on Milestone. I know Pres and Bird were on it, but I never bought it so I don't know if they played together on any of the tracks. Has it ever appeared on CD? Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-22-2003 03:17 AM Oldtimer Member Registered: Jul 2003 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 45 Clifton I don't know about the 1946 JATP sessions with Pres and Bird. But I was just listening to two tracks from Pres' September 18, 1949 JATP concert with Charlie Parker, Roy Eldrige, Flip Phillips, Hank Jones, Tommy Turk, Ray Brown and Buddy Rich. The first is a 12 1/2 minute version of "Lester Leaps In" that is so hot I thought my speakers would start smoking. The second track is a wonderful contrast - a 10 1/2 minute hauntingly beautiful rendition of "Embraceable You" where Eldrige, Pres, and Bird take extended solos and demonstrate their marvelous lyrical style in one of my all-time favorite ballads. According to the liner notes, I think these tracks were first issued on the Mercury label. These tracks are included in the 85 track Proper 4CD box set I mentioned above and are worth the $25 price of the entire set, which includes many of his Teddy Wilson/Billie Holiday and Count Basie classics - plus Pres's sessions with Nat Cole and Buddy Rich. The remastered sound, in general, is superb. BTW I want to sincerely thank you for directing me here where discussions are much more peaceful and jazz oriented. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-22-2003 05:59 AM clifton Senior Member Registered: Oct 2002 Location: Clifton Hts., Pa Posts: 378 Oldtimer: good to talk to you again. I have the 1949 JATP Carnegie Hall Concert on vinyl, and I agree. On "Lester Leaps In", Pres really lets it rip, sounds like he's inventing r&b tenor sax. BTW dchisholm set up a new jazz forum at yahoo.com specifically for Jazz Times refugees, designed to exclude the Two Stooges. I e-mailed him and he'll let me know the web address. I had announced I was going to create a blog (Clifton's Corner or some dumb thing) but dc got something going first and it looks like we're all going to check it out. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-22-2003 07:41 AM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 Olditemer, clifton, "The Complete JATP on Verve 1944-49" contains famous 1949. concert, one of my favorite, not because of the Bird and Little Jazz (whom I admire, also very much), but for the Pres that played so nice, that you ever have to imagine. His solo on "Embraceable You" is a masterpiece of his early, middle, later career, no matter; I think he never played that tune ever again, and BEFORE, yet he did something that is the hardest task - a complete, self contained, controlled by any means, deep emotional improvisation/composition. Listen close to it - it contains the moment of micro architecture, motives that are played in variations, one note of repetition Pres particularly like; spiritual force of his vision of "Embraceable" is so strong, and even Bird later did not diminished it. But, putting these two giants together and compared theirs approach, you can see different styles - Bird is furious and wants to show his technical skills on this one, while Lester is much more cooled down. His choice of notes is careful, but slow rhythm of them (no fast triplets and virtuoso passages) adds dramatic involvement of emotions, you must think of something sublime that leads you right down to express that emotions, to cry, to yell... There will never be another (embraceable) you. This concert we can, without any bothering, add to array of the most important jazz recordings of all time. ... clifton, 1946. JATP date can be the issued on the above mentioned JATP set as well, if it is not something else. For the "invention" of r&b, as well as free jazz, you can listen to "The Closer" from the same 1949. date. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-22-2003 07:44 AM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 444 I was listening to Gil Evans Out Of The Cool earlier today which I've enjoyed for many years along with much more of Gil's work.Whenever I listen to Gil's stuff from this period I always find myself trying to imagine how Gil would have used Lester/ how Lester would have sounded in a similar setting. It may be a pointless exercise trying to imagine all these scenarios but I doubt that I'm the only Lester fan to wonder what the combination could have produced.Would Lester have been interested, or was he musically content rather than ready for a challenge? Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-01-2003 06:39 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 Peter, you are on the right track shall I say!!! I don't know if I discused this one at the BNBB or here, but I think there were strong connections (stronger than anyone could imagine) between West Coast jazz scene, Gill Evans and the likes and "Birth of the Cool". Because, Gill Evans and Pres were close friends, and according to sources, Evans (not only him, but Billy Strayhorn and Nat King Cole) wrote arrangements for Lee & Lester Young's band. So, the main thing about West Coast was, why musicians from that area were so influenced by Lester - why by him? Because, L & LYB was quite popular band, terrific in LA during 1942-44, and, naturally people picked up that sound - sound of his sax, relaxed but with strong swing. Evans, surely, later, developed ideas and perhaps, was also influenced by Pres' cool sound, and of course did what he did for Miles. Lester work was real birth of the cool - and that is not fantasy. These are only observations, maybe wrong ones - I would be happy if I can see some elaborations - if there any can see connections. But, to support yours thinking - Gill and Lester - yeah, what sound that could be, but it never happened! And, for no reason at all - they dig each other quite a lot! Pity! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-01-2003 07:16 PM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 444 I always loved Lester's nickname for Miles - Midget! Only Lester could get away with it! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-01-2003 07:30 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 How many people (I didn't have a chance) listened to live recordings with Pres and Miles played together on a European tour (there are plenty of them, but, according to discographies, only few has been issued) 1956. It was the period Miles recorded his important sessions with Trane, but for tour he has Pres behind him. Sounds interesting... BTW, I didn't know about that story you told. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-01-2003 08:22 PM John L Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 105 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan How many people (I didn't have a chance) listened to live recordings with Pres and Miles played together on a European tour (there are plenty of them, but, according to discographies, only few has been issued) 1956. It was the period Miles recorded his important sessions with Trane, but for tour he has Pres behind him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good question, Milan. I have a handful of tracks from that tour, but only 2 that Miles and Pres play on together: 1) "Lady Be Good" with the Rene Urtreger trio 2) "Lester Leaps in" with the MJQ and the Kurt Edelhangen Big Band. The first track is pretty standard fare, nice but no fireworks. The second tracks is quite interesting and unusual. It builds up a pretty good head of behind Lester. Miles seems a bit detached. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 08-01-2003 10:39 PM mmilovan Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 114 John, What amazing line: Pres, MJQ and Miles! Seems like magic! But noone recorded them in recording studio! And what a loss, the same as with Gill Evans! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 12:10 AM

mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 John L Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 95 PDEE: Certainly, many of us can agree that the later careers of Billie and Lester had downs as well as ups. Buck Clayton recalls Granz recording Lester when he couldn't even stand up. Maybe that was the "Laughin' to Keep From Crying" date. That is my least favorite Lester Young album, although I would say that there are still some scattered nice moments. Much more worthwhile, in my opinion, is the preceeding album, "Goin' For Myself," if only for the beautiful reading of "You're Getting to Be a Habit With Me." Sure, the performance contains its share of flaws, as was the case for almost all post-56 Young. But it succeeds as a whole at a deeper artistic level (IMO). Then, if we go back one more year to 1956, we have a trreasure chest of great Lester Young on record. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-23-2003 01:45 PM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 391 UP because it's Lester time -no excuses Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 05-25-2003 08:46 PM EKE BBB Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 443 Peter: Of course, it´s always Prez time! A few photos for the nostalgia: [Portrait of Lester Young, Famous Door, New York, N.Y., ca. Sept. 1946]. [Portrait of Lester Young, Spotlite (Club), New York, N.Y., ca. Sept. 1946]. And finally, look where mmilovan took his avatar from: [Portrait of Jay Higginbotham, Pete Johnson, Henry Allen, and Lester Young, National Press Club, Washington, D.C., ca. 1940]. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 05-25-2003 09:16 PM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 391 Ah one of my other favourites Henry Red Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 05-25-2003 09:22 PM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 391 Just noticed the last picture is taken in Washington - I'm listening to Lester In Washington Vol. 2 Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 05-25-2003 09:26 PM EKE BBB Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 443 A couple of weeks ago I bought The complete 1936-1951 small group sessions. Studio recordings. Vol.1&2: Two low-priced box-sets of 4 CD each, released by Blue Moon, with all the studio recordings made by Prez in the small band format in those years, except for the Billie Holiday sessions and recordings of performances made in public. Volume 1 condenses master takes from 1936 to 1949. Volume 2 includes master takes from 1949 to 1951 and all the alternate takes. 185 marvellous performances. You never get tired of listening to Prez. His melodic fluency, his smooth tone, his phrasing... Of course, much duplication with all that I had, but it´s worth to complete: sides with Una Mae Carlisle, Sammy Price, Helen Humes, Dickie Wells... Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 06-02-2003 11:04 PM mmilovan Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 76 The "problem" with Lester (if there is any) is false applying "bad moments" to whole postwar Pres career. I think the critic could wrote that crap with no further explanations and going deeper into the thing. Leonard Feather said that on liner notes of reissue of Aladdin sessions (although he announced Pres - "The Greatest Tenor Saxophonist Ever" in 1956.) - "It was not long after these Aladdin sessions that real disintegration of Lester Young became disconcertingly evident, physically and artistically". To be honest - first sign of Lester's health problems became evident in 1955 - session with Peterson, Sweets Edison and others. Till then he CONSTANTLY produced wonderful miracles (if doubt any, please listen to Pres on some rare live occasion around 1953. - JATP TV Live - and his playing on "Lover" - tune he never played before or after - where he did it so well that my jaw dropped down to the floor)! Yes, I said miracles. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-02-2003 09:40 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 654 Certainly later ib life, Pres had his ups ' downs ...musically and no doubt in Life in general, but the highs were first class... The Jazz Giants 56 / Teddy Wilson 's on Verve. Bill Pott's recordings from Olivia's lounge.. all excellent Pres. Perhaps different to his earlier days.. but which musician hasn't changed with the passage of time. MMilovan is correct in pointing out that trashing all his post 50's recordings is unfair. It could be that his early career when with Basie and the small groups that came from it produced a consistently high level of performance. It is irrational to think we can also always operate at our peak levels, especially as we age. If not there wouldn't be a girl down at the local bar that would ever forget my performance tonight... Ah but once I could really Tickle Toes. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-03-2003 12:08 AM mmilovan Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 76 Good point PDEE! As with jazz music, it is the same with books: to get a whole picture, you must hear the complete performances (if you wish so)/read complete issues of certain books by some author, believe in your ears, and do not trust what critic say. It is more objective way, and you're dealin' with something unique. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-03-2003 02:35 AM John L Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 95 Yes, and Lester Young was the personification of "uniqueness." There have been many, many imitators, mabye as many Pres imitators as Bird imitators. But there never will be a true substitute for what I consider to be the greatest pleasure in jazz: Lester Willis Young. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-03-2003 07:43 AM Lonson Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 217 Isn't it appropriate that one of the last recordings I know of his contains the song "There Will Never Be Another You"! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-03-2003 03:37 PM mmilovan Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 76 Well, I can not really say what period I like the most - early, middle or late career period. Sometimes, I like to listen to the clarity and flexible approach of his early days, the other day I like to feel the pain embedded in his post 1956. appearances. But, the most important thing could be his live postwar recordings. Anybody know are they researched in some systematic way (I've heard about Frank Buchmann-Moller book, but I've heard nothing about it except one opinion that qualifies "as boring to death" (sic!) Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-03-2003 08:51 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 654 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan Well, But, the most important thing could be his live postwar recordings. Anybody know are they researched in some systematic way (I've heard about Frank Buchmann-Moller book, but I've heard nothing about it except one opinion that qualifies "as boring to death" (sic!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually there are Two Books by Moller You Just Fight For Your Life... which is a biography of Pres. At the time there were very few books devoted solely to Pres, so I didn't find it boring. Haven't revisted in a long time , so since the Daniels book. The other You Gotta be Original Man is a chronological look at Pres' solos.. just about all of them ( I'm sure he might have missed a date here and there. It includes lots of transcription.. many whole solos.. So yes it can be boring to those who don't like alternate takes.. the book talks about them all I find it fascinating.. even though I don't always agree with the viewpoint. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-03-2003 11:29 PM mmilovan Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 76 PDEE, are postwar live broadcasts included in the book? I've noticed on the other hand that glorious Pres sessions with John Lewis, Jo Jones and Gene Ramey (actually two sessions from Jan. and March 1951) for Verve are pretty rare mentioned - although they produced some of the most important music beside sides with Peterson 1952 and Wilson in 1956. The take I like so much is "Slow Motion Blues" from March 1951. Great 3 blues coruses made so nice, that left you in a thought what Pres learned from King Oliver. Nicest blues side ever made, IMO! Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 07-04-2003 08:13 AM Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 09-22-2003 12:08 AM

FWIW, the discussion on Prez continued at AAJ: mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 The most amazing thing with Lester was that he behaved as he played. He was eccentric - his music certainly was (in some very paticular points); he was soft and nice person - his music was, too; he was man with so much intelligence, his music was unique and has deep structural quality... I must think of the other musicians that were, so to say, transparent... Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-17-2003 04:09 PM peter rh Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: UK Posts: 525 I think Wild Bill Davison might be described as transparent in a musical way - also Henry Red Allen, although Henry was more introverted off stage from what I've heard and read.His outgoing style was all show when doing business, but a genuine nice guy as far as I can tell. Not perhaps similar to Lester Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-17-2003 09:02 PM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 John - Really, I don't know who started that trash about Pres playing and his inability to play as he played during the C.B. days. Anytime someone asks me about that nonexistible characteristic, I answer them shortly: Even Bird or Trane played bad, with stereotypes and clichés. One have to remember that Pres was highly sensitive as a person - all that drinking problems and drugs left impact (to whom will not?) to Lester's production of tone and breath, and, sometimes, on his palm or finger movements, but... but there is at least one studio session where it seems that master was drunk to death (1955 with Sweets Edison and Peterson), still he produced some of the most touching improvisations in jazz anytime ("That's All", "Talk Of The Town"...). On the other hand there are various occasions (recently, I've heard some recordings from around 1951-52, that somebody gave me years ago) he produced such quality music that can reach his youth creations... ...pardon, that can reach the stars. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-22-2003 03:07 PM John L Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 106 Milan: On the one hand, I do understand why some people are a bit dismissive of Pres' later recordings. Pres made his name playing with a crisply articulated smooth-as-silk light tone that seemed to float on air over the chords and rhythm. In the 40s, his tone became heavier and his attack more aggressive. In the 50s, physical frailty added a quiver to his tone and sometimes interfered with the fluency of his playing. Combine that with alcoholism and growing evidence of physical and mental ailments, and a very coherent story of "artistic decline" emerges. The problem is that the story is wrong, or at least it is very superficial. I think it is amazing the degree to which the careers of Pres and Billie Holiday paralleled each other. Billie's voice changed in somewhat the same way as Lester's voice on the sax. But both Billie and Lester continued to make supreme art to the end. What they were doing later in their careers was not just a pale imitation of what they did earlier. It was something very different, something that they couldn't have done in their youth even if they wanted to. One might state a personal preference for earlier Pres or Billie, but there is no denying the greatness of what they did later as well. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-22-2003 04:25 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 655 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by John L One might state a personal preference for earlier Pres or Billie, but there is no denying the greatness of what they did later as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Possibly, but sometimes I think people are a bit blinded by the legend, and unwilling to say negative things about the stars...these two in particular. there is very little " great" about the " Laughin' to Keep from Crying" session other than the cover photo and the work of Sweets and Little Jazz to bolster Pres. The album title is quite appropriate. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-22-2003 05:09 PM mmilovan What Is There To Say Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Belgrade, Serbia Posts: 96 PDEE Yes, right, but, to be honest, how many for an example members of this board, would even try to discuss "hard moments (to put this in smooth way) in a life of... (here you can add any NAME)" ? We are usually moved by an artists, they give us a pleasure... Why Pres and Billie fits out of this rules of talking? Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-22-2003 07:05 PM David Gitin Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Monterey,California Posts: 469 I agree with PDEE on JAZZ GIANTS '56 being a better album than is generally acknowledged. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-22-2003 07:10 PM PDEE Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Woodinville Wa Posts: 655 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mmilovan PDEE Yes, right, but, to be honest, how many for an example members of this board, would even try to discuss "hard moments (to put this in smooth way) in a life of... (here you can add any NAME)" ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think many posters here, and on the BNBB are quite willing to make negative reviews / comments on recordings which they think deserve it.. about any artist. My comments weren't that Pres was drunk, or ill.. just that its a poor session and difficult to listen to.. if you are familiar with, and a devotee of Pres' finer moments. I think the mention of the health problems etc. are simply a way to make allowances for what is a lesser performance than expected. Possibly if the star hadn't been so big, the records might never have been issued. I think the same is true of Billie. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-23-2003 12:23 AM John L Senior Member Registered: Mar 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 106 PDEE: Certainly, many of us can agree that the later careers of Billie and Lester had downs as well as ups. Buck Clayton recalls Granz recording Lester when he couldn't even stand up. Maybe that was the "Laughin' to Keep From Crying" date. That is my least favorite Lester Young album, although I would say that there are still some scattered nice moments. Much more worthwhile, in my opinion, is the preceeding album, "Goin' For Myself," if only for the beautiful reading of "You're Getting to Be a Habit With Me." Sure, the performance contains its share of flaws, as was the case for almost all post-56 Young. But it succeeds as a whole at a deeper artistic level (IMO). Then, if we go back one more year to 1956, we have a trreasure chest of great Lester Young on record. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 04-23-2003 04:45 PM

Thanks for bringing this thread here, ubu!

I will receive the complete collection soon (again, thanks to a member of this board for it). If the information required is included, I will post it.

FOR NOW, I will pass on this one. I have some live Evans discs I haven´t listened to yet (Paris 1965; Time to remember -Live in Europe 1965-72- ; Live in Switzerland 1974; My foolish heart Live in Buenos Aires 1975; The brilliant -Rome 1979-...) But if your review forces me...

99.703!!! Europeans unite! We can make it before they wake up at the other side of the ocean! B) mmm, I think I got one warning! :rsmile:

Volkher: Just PM-ed you (I tried to send you and e-mail, but I´m not allowed to do so). Please, contact me via PM or via e-mail: bhdezfdez@telefonica.net

Searching through Jazzmatazz I found there´s a new Lovano CD due out on May 6 this year. It´s supposed to be composed of ballads and standards. Old guard with him: Hank Jones, George Mraz and Paul Motian. Do you know anything about this upcoming release?

Anybody got this? Any comments? Available at cduniverse for the hiiiiigh ammount of $23.29 (being a single CD)

According to Jazzmatazz, there´s no release date ("2004&beyond") for Piano on the background, Piano on the foreground or Blues in Orbit. And the promised "A drum is a woman" appears to be same, or worse ("2005?") !!!

I´ll add a couple of Ellingtonians who were with the Duke many years. Not profusely featured as soloists, but without them, the sound of this wonderful orchestra wouldn´t have been the same: JIMMY HAMILTON and RUSSELL PROCOPE.

Join the party, Randy! 100.000 posts thread

AAJ reviews of these releases: MASTERPIECES ELLINGTON UPTOWN and one more: FESTIVAL SESSION and if you look through this thread DISCOGRAPHICAL DUKE you may find more information.

Could not disagree more about the "other vocalists" part! The sides with Helen Merrill are some of the best vocal jazz I EVER heard! ubu Could not disagree more (with skeith) B) Could not agree more (with king ubu) The Merrill-Brown date is one of my desert island discs, for sure!