Rooster_Ties

Tom is what he is, both good and bad, and does what he does. We're all probably the better off for the BNBB having closed (I know I am). I neither hate Tom now, nor look up to him quite the way I did back in the day (hanging on his every post to certain kinds of threads, about reissues and new releases, etc...). As Sangry would say, it's all business. That sure as hell ain't all good, but it ain't all bad either. It just is what it is.

Looking at Von's brother George's discography on the AMG, it sounds like he would qualify for this thread. Also, I was about to mention Marcus Belgrave, maybe, but it appears he did record a slight bit more in the 50's and 60's than I was remembering. Still, he's kinda sorta similar to what I'm looking for --- people who are easy to overlook, since they didn't record all that much early on.

OK, Von Freeman didn't record as a leader (at least not a full album, anyway), until he was about 50. And he didn't record much before that (hardly any at all, far as I know), even as a sideman. OK, who else was criminally under-recorded in their early years??? (And I'm not just talking about as a leader – but minimal recording as a sideman too. BUT, I'm looking for people who went on to record at least a fair bit later in life (even if just for small labels / regional labels), either as a leader, or as an important sideman. So, then, this thread isn't supposed to be about the "James Spauldings" of the world - since he recorded a whole bunch as a sideman early on (even if he didn't get to lead until later). Who's playing is MUCH more interesting than the volume of their early recorded output would tend to indicate??? (People with very few recordings before they were about 40, or even closer to 50??.) And what are some of their "must have" recordings?? -- either their few recordings back when they were young, or more recent stuff (And mention specific releases too, if you please -- thanks!!!) This is particularly for the more obscure people who might get mentioned in this thread, like the piano-guy I'm about to mention down below, in the "PS". Side thought: I suppose Sun Ra would qualify for this thread, since he was damn near 40 before he ever even recorded for the first time. (We probably don't need to go into his recorded output much here, since that's an entire thread's worth of discussion right there.) But the "why's" and impact of his not recording until he was 40 is certainly fair game here. PS: Spontoonious played a CD of a piano trio for me a couple months ago -- I forget the cat's name (and the label the disc was on -- maybe somebody/something out of the Washington D.C. area??? -- my memory is very foggy about this). It was something Spontoon got hipped to on this board, from Jim Sangry I think. I'm guessing the piano player on this date might very well fit the bill of this thread. Don't even know where to begin searching for the name, so I'll ask Spontoonious the next time I e-mail him (or maybe Jim knows who I'm talking about). The recording was relatively recent (90's, late 90's even??), and the guy passed away recently too (if I remember right). And although the disc was mostly or nearly all standards – harmonically and rhythmically, the guy was sometimes a bit far left of center. Nothing that would scare most people off (casual listeners), but if you listened closely -- it was some pretty whack shit in its own way, if I remember right. (Kinda reminded me of that early, early pre-BN Andrew Hill date "So In Love", from the late 50's.) Was there a killer "Body and Soul" as the last track on the disc maybe??? (What little details I can remember, and even more important details I can forget!!!)

I used to have this on CD, but don't know what happened to it. (Can't imagine I traded it, but stranger things have happened.) Von's bro. Same cat?? Listening to some on-line samples now. Damn, where'd my copy of this one go to??

So what's the best way to lobby for specific BN obscure titles to be released through Water?? You know -- the later stuff that BN isn't gonna touch with a ten-foot poll (did I hear someone mention Kenny Cox??) E-mails to Michael at Mosaic?? The "tom@bluenote" thread on AAJ?? Somebody at Water?? (and who??). Who's got the biggest influence in deciding what gets out on Water?? (I'm guessing Michael, personally.) Anybody know??

Absolutely. I only just discovered this one recently myself (maybe 3 or 4 months ago), and I'm sure I've listened to it an average of once a week since then (though more frequently after I first got it). Had it on once a couple months ago when I my wife was around, and she really dug it too. (She doesn't care much for jazz with horns, but piano trios, and piano-centric stuff is just fine with her.) In fact, I had it on --- and I hadn't made any kind of big deal about it (you know, the usual "you gotta listen to this, honey!!", when I know she's only gonna be half-interested, at best) ---but she specifically asked who it was, when it was recorded, etc... B-)

Doing a search just now (for something else), I stumbled on this thread (link below), which I don't remember having read all the way through at the time. Link: The latest Crouch controversy, pile on! This post by Chris (the two articles/letters it contains) is well worth a read, and I'm sorry I missed it the first time. (Thanks for posting it, Chris!!)

No shit!!! I heard Crouch speak back in February, in person, as a part of a panel discussion at Washington University (in St. Louis). It was a round-table discussion about "Public intellectuals". All the other participants were academics (here's who was there, about 6 total), except Crouch, obviously. He was outgunned, intellectually, to say the least (who wouldn't be) -- but my problem with Crouch was that much of what he said was basically nonsense (wish I could remember some details), and that he sure as hell liked to hear himself talk. Well, one thing I do remember... Crouch, in one of his many tangents that really didn't have much to do with the discussion that was going on around him, make a perfectly reasonable argument for why Miles should have gone electric (in fact, maybe even "needed" to go electric), and why Sun Ra and Coltrane, and other free-jazz artists, were perfectly reasonable to go down the "Free" paths they went. No, Crouch never mentioned jazz specifically, but he mentioned a number of authors, including Herman Melville, Jack Kerouac, and J.D. Salinger (and maybe one or two others), and how they were all justified, no -- more like obligated -- to try new things, to go where no author had gone before, even if it meant pissing off the majority of critics and the public alike. His implication was that the public just needed to catch up with them. Crouch actually said something like "artistic expression that doesn't move forward, just withers on the vine" -- or something like that. Of course, this was a total disingenuous argument, when you consider Crouch's conservative opinions about jazz. I about nearly fell out of my seat, and it was all I could do not to bust up laughing in fairly large hall full of students and faculty, and other public, semi-public, and private "intellectuals". The sense I got, from this event, was that Crouch was mostly full of shit. Not entirely, but mostly.

If I recall right, Chuck said once that the Harold Vick was the only Conn he didn't own on CD. No reason (again, my vague memory), he just missed it at the time, and never went back for it. (Hell, he probably has the original vinyl. )

Johnny Griffin - "Change of Pace" (Riverside, 1961) Unique instrumentation, and one of my all-time favorite OJC's... Johnny Griffin - Tenor Larry Gales - Bass Bill Lee - Bass Ben Riley - Drums Julius Watkins - French Horn Two bass players on every track, French Horn on about half the tracks. All originals, 'cept one standard. Don Wilkerson - "The Texas Twister" (Riverside, 1960) Forget Wilkerson's BN titles -- they're not even half as interesting as this one. (And if pressed, I'd give up all three of Wilkerson's BN dates, before I'd give up this one.) Great line-up, and this one burns, front to back. Don Wilkerson - Tenor Nat Adderley - Cornet Barry Harris - Piano Sam Jones - Bass (on half of the date) Leroy Vinnegar - Bass (on the other half of the date) Billy Higgins - Drums

Well, the $21.80 does include postage, and there's no sales tax. Now whether it's worth that much to you, I couldn't say. (But it's easily worth $15, without question (IMHO), for whatever that's worth.) It's a good, solid album -- and probably my one of my personal favorites of all of Murray's output (and unique, in that it's all bass clarinet). It clocks in at 52:16 if that helps any (it's not a overly "short" album), and it's not just ballads, cuz there are two or three mid-tempo tunes too (about half the disc), just nothing really up-tempo. The band is John Hicks, Ray Drummond, and Idris Muhammad. I've been searching high and low for on-line sound-clips, but can't find any. Anybody have any better luck than I did?? Edit (the next morning): Listening to the CD just now, I had forgotten how wonderful it is that Murray plays quite a bit in the lower register of the bass clarinet. So many players focus on the upper register, and frankly -- it's the lower half of the instrument that really makes it unique. (Yeah, I know, the upper register sounds different than a regular clarinet.) My point is that the lower register is usually underutilized by most players --- but not on this recording!!!

My favorite of his screwball comedy movies is "Sleeper". Bits of it remind me of every bad sci-fi series/movie from that same era (Logan's Run, Space 1999, etc...).

I'm guessing I'm the only one here who's ever seen "Shadows and Fog" (1991). Hardly remember anything about it, other than it seemed like Woody's homage to Fritz Lang, with a dash of "The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari" thrown in for good measure. But as far as how the plot for this one goes, I'm a blank slate.

Damn, another one I'd forgotten about... "Husbands and Wives" (1992). Herky-jerky hand-held camera through most of this one, if I remember right. Very confrontational stuff. Can't remember too much more, other than I think I liked it quite a bit. Wonder if I'd think the same thing now, though. Funny how we react to movies in different ways, at different times in our lives. Somehow I suspect I'd see this one with different eyes (perhaps knowing slightly more about Woody's personal life now, more than any of us care too - probably). Might still like it, but I suspect less than the first time I saw it --- again, years ago.

Almost forgot about this one. "Crimes and Misdemeanors" (1989). Very underrated I would guess, or at least it's certainly not the first thing most people think of when they think of Woody Allen. Haven't seen it in years, but my memory is that Martin Landau was brilliant in this. Might just have to rent this one soon. I'm sure my wife probably hasn't seen it, and I suspect she'd enjoy it. And it's not an overtly "Woody Allen"-ish film either (something my wife doesn't care for -- so yeah, "Annie Hall" and "Sleeper" are really not her cup of tea). But this one she might go for. Anyone else like "Crimes and Misdemeanors" quite a bit too?? Probably one of his very best 'later' films, hands down.

And on a nearly unrelated note -- anybody here see "Celebrity" (B&W, 1998)?? Certainly not Allen's best (probably not even close) -- but I remember seeing it in a nearly empty theater when it first came out, and enjoying it quite a bit, generally. Faint praise, perhaps, but I only had moderate expectations for it -- and they were all mostly exceeded. Worth a rent, sometime, in anyone is so inclined.

Shortly after I first saw "Stardust..." back in college (late 80's), I went for a good 5 years usually saying that "Stardust Memories" was my all-time favorite movie, period. (Not just favorite Woody Allen movie, but favorite of all movies.) But I've seen a bunch more films since then. And I haven't seen "Stardust Memories" in probably close to 10 years. And I'm quite sure I wouldn't pick any Woody Allen film as my "all-time favorite" (though lard only knows what I would pick? Probably a classic copout, and say "Citizen Kane", though that'd probably be at least a half-honest response most days). But if I had to pick my favorite Woody Allen film, now, looking back on having seen most of them back when I was in college (and few since, 'cept what I've seen in the theaters, off and on, here and there), I might have to go with these two (below), with the top-nod going to "Manhattan" (over "Annie Hall). and

Ain't that a pisser...

The Booker date is very likely going to be in the next batch of Conns, probably Oct. of 2005 (cuz it very nearly was in this last batch, but there weren't funds available for two new covers, and "Dance With Death" got the nod). Personally, I'll be shocked if "Back From The Gig" isn't in the next batch of Conns. The Jeremy Steig is either Rare Groove material (I'm just guessing, cuz I've never heard it - short of the samples the Beastie Boys have used), or more likely, something BN would only release though Water. Never gonna be an RVG, and probably not a Conn either.

Don't know a thing about Donny Hathaway, but there appear to be two live albums listed in the AMG. (I think they're different albums, but I haven't looked very closely at the details.)

Another plug for the David Murray disc that's all bass clarinet. I'm not a huge fan of Don Byron, but if you go that direction, get "Romance with the Unseen" (BN, 1999) - my favorite disc of his by some margin. (Haven't heard his latest, the one with Jason Moran yet, though.)

The Bill Evans Verve box is the worst, but this comes a close second...

"Am I Blue" puts me to sleep every time.

Absolutely!!!!