Eric

you know, I have lived most my life in KC and North Carolina, and favor myself as a bit of a BBQ snob ... but I really think Virgil's is pretty decent and not just by NY standards ... I have maybe 5 times and always enjoyed ...

LOL

Wow--darker than YANKEE? yeah, that is my take, but my burn is apparently missing the last 3-4 tracks I will definitely buy it, like Yankee, it is one that I suspect will take some time to settle in ...

good choice Rooster - that one does sound like crap - I have the lp and don't recall it as being too much better a couple of (former) boots: Max Roach and Clifford Brown at the Bee Hive in Chicago - burnin' music, really crappy sound Charlie Parker at the Pershing (on CD from Savoy), also in Chicago, with George Freeman on guitar - he is Von's brother - he has a very distinctive tone and way of phrasing and I would love to hear it come through better just about everything Bud Powell did from the bop era

well, this is gonna be random but: Clarke/Boland Big Band - not really out, but they put together a ton of good stuff in this era Stanley Turrentine - Sugar or Best of CTI - there is a certain "authority" on some of these tracks that stands out even more than on his BN stuff - I really like the "Best of" Dave Holland - Conference of the Birds - you may have, but a real classic of the era, with Sam Rivers and Anthony Braxton Enrico Rava - Pilgrim and the Stars - with John Abercrombie I am sure you are familiar with 'em, but everything McCoy did on Milestone - if you don't have Enlightenment - grab it My gut - and what I would like to hear more about from fellow board members - is the European angle from this era - me thinks this is where much fruit may reside Also - some of John McLaughlin's early stuff, including a very nice Gordon Beck side called Experiments with Pops Oh yes - and this is on Blue Note - but Moon Rappin' by Jack McDuff. Believe it or not, I think it damn near meets your progressive and groovy requirement

Don't know if has been released yet - friend of mine sent me a burn (maybe from their web site). I have not been able to give it a "deep" listen yet. First couple of listens - seems to be a little darker than their last couple - maybe too much so for me. Any thoughts???

depends on what your definition of "it" is ...

I believe it is very much a legit disorder. The question is whether the diagnosis is correct. I would ask your pediatrician for some names of psychologists (basically one who is trained as a counselor) and/or psychiatrists (one who is actually licensed to prescribe the medication - it is possible to be both) who specialize in children to give a second opinion. Good luck and trust your judgement. If you go the route of medication, you can always suspend it later (under the supervision of the psychiatrist of course). Eric Jeff - you might also check out this info at the National Inst of Health: http://consensus.nih.gov/cons/110/110_statement.htm

I would say drunken football player sums up part of it ... although I did pretty well in school and had fairly decent musical taste (early punk/new wave, with a little Miles, McCoy and Wes mixed in - not exacly mainstream in Wichita, KS). Most of my football friends are currently working construction or otherwise "working for Dad" ...

My buddy Ben and I decided this is because of the liberal helping of celery seed they include in the sauce. BTW: when I was home over Easter weekend, I brought back 6 bottles with me. only six??? I have been known to make a sammich with ONLY sauce and white bread (if the house is temporarily low on meat) ... the stuff is downright intoxicating

Well, I'm with you regarding the Texas stuff--I'm not really a fan--but I don't really like the Memphis/Carolina style either. As you might have guessed from my avatar, I'm originally from Kansas City and them roots run deep. Any other kind of BBQ tastes weak to me. Texas-style is indeed too sweet (for me) and that thin sauce in Memphis is just too watery. Plus, I appreciate the KC emphasis on beef, especially burnt ends. It is my opinion that Arthur Bryant's has to be among the best in the world. I always go whenever I'm back home. Ooooooooooooh ... Arthur Bryant's is the BEST. It is very close to 18th & Vine, so any self-respecting jazz fan would have to stop by for lunch or dinner. All the meats are roasted in a pit right behind the counter ... fries are cooked in LARD and are heavenly. You can get your brew or your RED POP, which somehow works. Best is the SAUCE, which is orange and is usually described (by those who love it and despise it) as "tasting like sandpaper". Sandwiches are served on white bread and sauce is applied with a paintbrush. The hallmarks of quality are the two orange thumbprints left by the counterman after he cuts it in half with a butcher knife. Some nights it is only OK, but most nights it is near orgasmic

up ...

Actually, you got me on all three ... but when I was growing up, we were all into Bruce Springsteen as the patron saint of disaffected suburban teens ... "Tramps like us, baby we were born to run!" OK, OK, I took the bait. Waaaay afield from the original topic, but could not resist posting the lyrics to my favorite Springsteen song, Thunder Road: "The screen door slams, Mary's dress waves Like a vision she dances across the porch as the radio plays Roy Orbison singing for the lonely Hey, that's me and I want you only Don't turn me home again, I just can't face myself alone again Don't run back inside, darling, you know just what I'm here for So you're scared and you're thinking that maybe we ain't that young anymore Show a little faith, there's magic in the night You ain't a beauty but, hey, you're alright Oh, and that's alright with me You can hide 'neath your covers and study your pain Make crosses from your lovers, throw roses in the rain Waste your summer praying in vain For a savior to rise from these streets Well now, I ain't no hero, that's understood All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood With a chance to make it good somehow Hey, what else can we do now? Except roll down the window and let the wind blow back your hair Well, the night's busting open, these two lanes will take us anywhere We got one last chance to make it real To trade in these wings on some wheels Climb in back, heaven's waiting on down the tracks Oh oh, come take my hand We're riding out tonight to case the promised land Oh oh oh oh, Thunder Road Oh, Thunder Road, oh, Thunder Road Lying out there like a killer in the sun Hey, I know it's late, we can make it if we run Oh oh oh oh, Thunder Road Sit tight, take hold, Thunder Road Well, I got this guitar and I learned how to make it talk And my car's out back if you're ready to take that long walk From your front porch to my front seat The door's open but the ride ain't free And I know you're lonely for words that I ain't spoken But tonight we'll be free, all the promises'll be broken There were ghosts in the eyes of all the boys you sent away They haunt this dusty beach road in the skeleton frames of burned-out Chevrolets They scream your name at night in the street Your graduation gown lies in rags at their feet And in the lonely cool before dawn You hear their engines rolling on But when you get to the porch, they're gone on the wind So Mary, climb in It's a town full of losers, I'm pulling out of here to win" Patron saint indeed!!!

Dan, If I remember correctly, he worked with disabled kids in the (LA?) area. Hopefully Gary can share a little more. Eric

Hi Gary, Indeed, welcome!!! You will discover there are several KC folks who are active on the board and probably fans of your brother (as am I). A question for you - how much time did he spend in KC before heading to the west coast? I have most of his in-print recordings - I really enjoy his music. I have also enjoyed reading about his non-jazz professional activities - sounds like he was a neat guy. The Ebb Tide story is great ... please share more at your convenience! Eric

Not particularly, although my listening is somewhat limited. I have read that is what Brian was going after on Pet Sounds. Maybe it is my expectation of what I want from the Beach Boys - a pure sonic delight - ear candy of the highest caliber. Or, given Brian's perception of his competition at the time - the Beatles, maybe something a little richer, yet less muddled, less "boxy". To me, Pet Sounds just sounds (relatively) lo-fi. In the context of that great Dap-Kings CD, that sound of course is perfect So maybe that is the distinction - for r&b, classic soul, gritty rock - that sound works for me. But for pure pop - which is what I see this stuff as - I want to really hear all the sonic details.

Yeah Brandon, I have mixed emotions about new versus old. You're right, with the old you get Carl and a better-sounding Brian. With the new, you should get the benefit of technology, which unless they totally f it up, should be a plus. I wonder if Brian will be able to summon the emotion that he did for Pet Sounds or if it will be more of a giddy/silly "happy to be alive" vibe. Speaking of Pet Sounds, I may be in the minority, but I think it sounds like crap. I have the latest version (with both mono and stereo), but to me it sounds pretty cloudy and distant. Maybe it is supposed to, but it is just not to my taste. Great songs though.

Agree. Not essential, but good. Don't pay $140 ...

I nominate Black Fire by Andrew Hill. Highly satisfying album and very representative of the more progressive stuff BN was doing in the sixties. I think it is coming out as a new RVG this summer.

I see he also has a new one coming out in June ... a number of guests including Elton John, Clapton and McCartney. I really, really liked Imagination, the last one he put out (~ 5 years ago). Not all of it was great, but some of it really was (Imagination, Lay Down Burden in particular). Should be interesting, as I expect Smile will be. Hopefully the "studio magic" can smooth out some of the rough edges in his voice. Normally I am opposed to that sort of stuff, but hey, I won't be buying it for the lyrics ...

Hey Chuck, Happy Birthday!!! Thanks for your insights on this board and good luck with your ongoing efforts reissuing all that great stuff you recorded!! Eric

What he said ... Got it today, have spun it 3 times so far ... Goooooooooooooood shit!!!

Shades of Blue (aka Who's Blues) is on the Mosaic - it is just from a different session (the one with Cannonball issued as "Go"). Probably just tacked on to the European version of 1st Bassman ...

Has anyone picked up the Criss? Supposed to be unreleased stuff???

Claude and others, That is what I am trying to understand ... please enlighten me ...