Late

One other question — Was the original issue label for Ramwong Amiga? It seems like this recording was reissued by any number of labels. Wasn't it on Pacific Jazz at one time? I wonder what's the story behind why this one was shopped around.

A couple of Webster-related questions: • Is Webster's 1969 For the Guv'nor worth tracking down? Charly reissued it on compact disc. • Approximately how many sessions did Webster record with strings? I have his Verve output with strings, and have ordered Warm Moods. There was also a Storyville session that had strings on some tracks. What else was there? • After, say, 1966 — what are your favorite Webster recordings? I'm wanting to check out "late period" Webster, and thought I'd ask for recommendations. Thanks!

Up. Can't believe I heard Now, Jazz Ramwong for the first time just three days ago. Where have I been? How can one hear One Tension? Did it ever make it to compact disc? I've had Mangelsdorff's Diggin' for about twelve years now, as well as the trio session with Jaco Pastorius and Alphonse Mouzon, but had never checked out his earlier sessions.

It just comes with the territory of being a jazz recording collector. Sometimes it's OK to embrace it.

It's probably not Scott Hamilton, but it kinda looks like him. I like that picture!

The Strata East session that pairs Dorham with Cecil Payne, entitled Zodiac, is worth seeking out. It was out on compact disc for about three seconds ... What do you guys think of Dorham's Steeplechase albums? I've never heard them, but have read about them — with the remarks not always being very positive. Dorham's daughter posted twice on this board. It would be great if she could come back to update us on anything that might be in the works. I imagine there are a few recordings that missed the reissue boat.

Was this one (attached below) ever on compact disc? I don't know anything about it, but since I'm on a Zoot craze ...

I agree. Though I wish they'd lay off the Brötz and Bennink for a while. I mean, I like the guys, but bring on more Rüdiger Carl and ... [names that I'm not even familiar with]. Carl's Zwei Quintette, originally on FMP, is an unusual recording that would be a welcome addition to the Unheard series. My one copy literally and actually melted. I haven't heard it now for 12 years. I remember being really excited about it then. I wonder how it would strike me now. As for Mangelsdorff — if you don't already have his 1970 live in Tokyo date entitled Diggin' (on Enja), pick it up! I believe it's still in print. A truly wonderful live session with Heinz Sauer. It's one of those recordings that demands patience, and then — bang! — once you get in, you're in love.

Whoops — I have to retract this statement. I mis-remembered. Cuscuna actually said, in an e-mail, that this was one of Teddy's favorites — he thought it represented his playing well. Cuscuna, as I recall more accurately now, said he hadn't listened to it in a long time. I wish it could come out as a Connoisseur, but I'll take it as part of a Mosaic Select ... if it does indeed eventually happen.

Your first point above I can't really get with. ... That said, I tend to listen to this music with the mindset that it's "Just Music" ... I think I listen to music the same way you do. It is, after all, inescapably just "music" -- and thank God for that. To clarify (I hope), I'll just say that I find it interesting to listen for when musicians shed their most pronounced influences. Generally speaking, at least in this music called jazz, those influences are American.

Apparently it's one of Cuscuna's favorite Edwards albums. Why it hasn't been reissued, though, is anyone's guess. A long time ago Cuscuna said that he might try to work it into a Mosaic Select.

Has anyone considered that Anna Nicole Smith's daughter might have been fathered by her son? That could account, in some ways, for two sudden and inexplicable suicides, as well as a paternity test that could have, but wasn't, made public much earlier. Not trying to be perverse here. I've actually heard this is as a possibility in certain L.A. rumor mills.

I realize that the brackets of 1965-1973 are essentially arbitrary. And it's indeed the case that, a considerable three years earlier, Cecil Taylor must have completely resurfaced the sonic landscape at the Cafe Montmartre with that trio. And, yes, Steinmetz's playing owes a huge debt to Cherry and Ayler. I just recently picked up his Nu!, and I like it. Even though it wears its influence on its sleeve, it's still authentic music. When do you all hear the American influence dropping off, if not completely then at least some, while still retaining a fundamental "jazz" quality? I've always held that the Tom Prehn Kvartet record that Atavistic reissued was fairly un-American. It's one to pick up. I haven't heard enough Hampel. I've listened to the work he did with Marion Brown and like it, but wonder if the stuff without Brown is noticeably different. Some of the Hampel/Brown stuff with Jeanne Lee — I usually love her singing, but I can't get with a track like "You Did It" at all. Allen — good point about Hodeir. Some of his "atonal" writing (that often employed a swing beat) was mid-50's, well before the time period I'm thinking of. For some reason, however, I wouldn't necessarily call that "free" — at least what I've heard. It reminds me of The Jazz Composer's Workshop stuff of Teo Macero and Mingus, which, to my knowledge, was commonly through-composed. It does sound "free" at times, I suppose. At any rate, I like his music and it's ultimately not much use to try to decide if it's "free" or "not free." (I had to pay for all the Hodeir discs I own! )

Every country's musicians seem to bring a different flavor, if even only slightly different, to any given stream of improvised music. When that stream is "bebop," the results are often derivative (how could they not be?), but when that stream is the "avant garde," I hear more diversity in expression. It's not important to me to determine where the "avant garde" started in improvised music, but I do appreciate hearing how, at different locations across the globe, this particular stream or branch of the music evolved at different speeds and with different emphases. The body of "free" work that comes out of America is well-documented, as is the American ex-pat scene in Paris. For this thread I'd like to talk about "free" music in countries other than America. Additionally, before "free" became just another tossed off phrase — meaning, when there still was some risk to play "free" — I think it would be interesting to discuss how musicians in different countries were approaching how they might play this kind of music. From around 1965 to 1973, there seems to be a noticeable loosening of the boundaries of what jazz (or simply "improvised music") could be. I'm sure this can be attributed to any number of phenomena, but I've always felt that Ornette's Golden Circle concert played a significant role in this "loosening" — at least in Europe. I've listened to "free" work, from the time frame given above, from Poland, Germany, The Netherlands, South Africa, and, just recently, France. François Tusque's Le Nouveau Jazz has been an ear-opener for me, and not simply because you get to hear Barney Wilen tear shit up. Now I'd like to hear Jouck Minor and Bernard Vitet (when he started leaning toward this kind of music). What non-American pioneers of "free" music do you admire? What albums deserve more discussion and exposure?

The George Russell albums on Soul Note are very much worthy of repeated spins. It kind of bugs me that they're sometimes referred to as too "academic." At least I've read that before ... Just pick 'em up and play the music. The music will tell you if you like them or not. Can anyone PM me with possible leads to the KC album? I've listened to it on Ghost's show many times, and really like it.

Wow — didn't even know that one existed (the LP pictured above). I always assumed that Moore just had the one title on Fantasy — the one that made it into the OJC series. That one's nice. Who's on the other Fantasy session? Oh yeah — I've always thought that Moore should have had a tune called "Brew Moore Coffee," or maybe "Brew Moore Beer." Maybe he did and I just haven't checked any discographies. Anyone know what the original cover to Svingtet 14 looked like? Just curious.

Simple bird trivia (that you guys probably already know): The hummingbird is the only bird that can fly backwards. How? They move their wings in a figure-8 when "hovering" in front of flowers/feeders. Quincy — as Jim already mentioned, nice writing above. I actually read it aloud to my wife last night. She's more of a birder than I am. Then she said, "Why are you talking about birds on a jazz board?" Talk about hummingbirds reminds me — I have to go refill the "hummingbird juice" in our feeders today. We have a pair that wintered over, and we think they're about to breed soon. You know, I bet that are other birds that can fly backwards. I've always just accepted that "fact" as truth, but have never asked an actual bird expert.

Another in the series from Sonar Kollektiv. This time it's Romanian Jazz. Looks very interesting.

We get bushtits about once a week here. (We're probably not that far apart city-wise.) They arrive in a burst and depart the same way. Adorable little birds. Two years ago, a covey (woo-hoo! got to use that word) of California quail showed up on our driveway, hung out for about three hours, and then took off. I had actually never seen quail outside of books. I forget what the actual name of "camp robbers" is, but I saw some just recently while hiking Spencer's Butte. Those guys, if you give them time, will land on your head and hands ... especially if you happen to have some Cheezits. I don't know what I'm thinking. I've got to visit the Raptor Center here. I love owls, and would like to know more about them. Jim — that heron is amazing! Did you take that photo?

Oops. Left the final "S" off Frank's last name above ... (My third favorite smiley.)

Whenever I start getting excited about a certain label, I always forget to check Mike Fitzgerald's site. Thanks for reminding me, Mike W. Question — did these three ever come out on compact disc? The Philosophy of Phil Urso Marzette Watts Ensemble (I'm pretty sure this one didn't see CD reissue, but I'd like to be wrong.) North, South, East ... Wes

I like how "Secret Instructions" are labelled in huge print.

Save the whales! Down with vinyl fetishists!

And people wonder why the taxonomical reference is actually a "murder" of crows. It sounds like you have a nice variety down in the Bay Area, Jim. We get most of the birds you've mentioned, but I haven't seen an oriole around here ... or ever, I think. It's been a while since I've seen a cedar waxwing. Those birds are beautiful. Strangely or not, we've been getting Downy's here quite frequently in the last few weeks. I'd like to see a hairy woodpecker (I know, questionable name) — they're supposed to look just like the Downy, but up to twice the size! I'm a very casual birder too. I would imagine, out where your brother lives, there's an even greater variety than in the "big city" here.