DrJ

No problems with my copy either - finally made it through, listening to multiple segments over about a week in the car. Outstanding stuff, with a really nice "you're in the studio" atmosphere and overall feeling of good cheer. With this and my slightly earlier purchse of APOGEE, I continue to thoroughly enjoy gradually discovering this musician who on my first 10 years of serious jazz listening I managed to largely overlook. Fun to wade ever more deeply into Marshville.

I have the Japanese issue. To me it's solid middle-rank Messengers material, nothing more, but that means quite good in comparison to a lot of other music, and I'm glad others will get a chance to hear it for less than I paid!

NO NO NO NO NO! Methinks my comments have been used as a springboard to a discussion that I'd like to disengage them from, post haste! Seriously, I'm actually more than a little distressed to see this whole discussion degenerate yet again into an East coast/West coast thing. That couldn't have been FARTHER from my intention with my comments. Perhaps when I said I felt some of his PJ stuff lacked fire, people thought I meant "fire" in the stereotypical "hot" sound of a group like the MOANIN' era Messengers. But that's not what I meant. Miles, to me, played with fire even when he was picking his way through a fragile ballad...so did Bill Evans on "Peace Piece." It's not about the surface, it's what radiates from the core. Let me try briefly again: I'm talking about Shank as an individual, not as a school, not as a pseudo-evangelical movement, not as a geographic region. I have largely never bought into the East/West thing - far too many exceptions and differences among individuals about what even constitutes an East vs West coast sound and style to make the whole debate more than vaguely amusing talk over cocktails for a few minutes. Beyond that, it's a nonsense. So rather than trying to put him into some artificial category, I was talking about my personal impressions of Shank as an individual musician, and then simply tying them in with his own comments. But even if he felt the opposite of me - e.g. that his early playing was the stuff and he degenerated as he got older - well obviously I'd have to respect his opinion but would still personally much more value his later recordings. But from my standpoint, all of this should have NOTHING to do with the perception of him being "too West coast," which some appear to automatically associate with "effete." I don't make that association myself, never have, and that was NOT my point. There are many people who are just as ostensibly "mellow" sounding on the surface as PJ-era Shank, some also with styles that could be lumped in with the stereotyped "West coast" label, who I more thoroughly enjoy - such as Cooper, Jack Montrose, some others. All of these are people who to me seemed and, more importantly, SOUNDED far more comfortable in what they were doing - who seemed, well, more THEMSELVES - than Shank ever did in the 50's. In the Shank of that era, I hear a vastly talented but ultimately disatisfied and inconsistent musician, and while I can't point to notes that "say" this as plain as English, it permeates much of what he played. Not that I don't listen to it - as I mentioned originally the Shank Mosaic has helped me pass many a minute or hour pleasantly and I view that time as well spent - but it's way down on the list in terms of music that I would consider truly timeless and essential. Just so the point is clear!

Picked up CONQUISTADOR and CAPE VERDEAN BLUES, both upgrades from late 80's remasterings. Cannot wait to hear them. Also the SACD of BLUE TRAIN - and now I'll be able to find out which side of the heated debate about the SACD layer I fall in with! And with the 15% off/free shipping "taxday" coupon, threw in Jimmy Giuffre 3's 1961, which I've long been waiting for because I refused to pay the exhorbitant full list price on this ECM title. Still WAY over priced, but at least some off. About this one - I have and enjoy FREE FALL, how much similarity is there?

Great recording. I didn't find anything overly distracting on the Impulse! remastering but that is from memory, will listen again (once we get unpacked after our pending move).

Nicely put Stefan, although sometimes I must admit it's still fun to spin. One thing I want to say is that I disagree with the view that MERRY OLE SOUL is weak music - to me it's one of the stronger sessions in this box, and one of the most creative takes on holiday music I've heard by a jazz artist. It's Pearson's take on the Brazilian music that is definitely not going to be to all tastes.

I'll definitely pick up the Shank/Cooper and honestly I'm expecting I'll enjoy it more than the Shank Mosaic, mainly due to Cooper's presence...I like BLOWIN' COUNTRY a lot, if that's any indication. Older Shank I enjoy but do definitely have to be in the right mood to listen to that stuff...and probably as I've said before it's one of the lowest ranked personally out of a list of about 40 Mosaics I own, seriously lacking in my view in the heart and soul category (isolated contributions notwithstanding). The thing is, once you hear Shank from later in his career it's really hard to go back and listen to what I think is a really pale imitation of someone's full potential. I's not just me: even Shank himself pretty much has said over and over again in articles I've read that he was never fully satisfied with his playing in these early years, feeling he hadn't really matured yet. He also felt he was greatly hindered by being a multi-reedist and feels his improvisational playing suffered greatly as result of that and doing so much studio work. This is NOT to say that there's still not lots to enjoy from his PJ era, and again I do revisit it when in the right mood - obviously, as I have his first Mosaic and will be picking up this latest one. So this isn't an anti-Shank thing, but if you are intrigued by his earlier recordings, do check out his later stuff which has so much more fire and teeth to it - stuff like I TOLD YOU SO (Candid), which is outstanding stuff.

I'm with ralphie boy, I've always been puzzled by some of the hostile reactions to Disc 1 material from this box. I think it's exhilirating and uplifting (which is no mean achievement for funeral music - and that's the whole point really) and also like taking a time machine back in history. No, it's probably not the "best" music of its kind by a long shot, but the point is, it's just about the only recording of its kind. Thank God or whoever that someone had the foresight to do it.

Nice comments Larry - I agree, I just don't hear any of Konitz in Desmond and don't think that any kind of similarity (which is very much surface only) there is could plausibly be "influence."

Hmmm...notice that all Aric says is that he received the recordings, not that he had listened to them yet, but then he still reports he's off to "JIZZ ALL OVER HIMSELF." Hmmm. Hmmm. So...there's a name for this you know.... (wait for it...here it is...the punchline...gonna be good...drumroll...) PREMATURE EJACULISTEN!

This could be really good.

For big bands live, just McCoy Tyner Big Band, Blue Note, NYC, about 5-6 years ago or so. Excellent show, Eddie Henderson was on FIRE and definitely took solo honors, but great playing by all. Jerry Gonzalez stopped by to sit in for a couple numbers on congas.

I have the CD version of the set, bought it used for I think about $100 a few years back - showing its age a bit remastering wise, but more than listenable and the music is excellent. I'd say go for that Mosaic LP box.

Matthew, I agree with much of what you say too - good points.

Well worth tracking all these down, although I think the Farlow/McGhee, Salvador, and Melle were my favorites. The Lou Mecca would be a great U.S. reissue if they ever revive the 10" series - have the JRVG and it's groovy.

Well I'm a bit surprised if the Pearson select is that bad. Even though McMaster does some of the Selects, they haven't been too bad so far in my estimation. But you owe it to yourself to check out some of the Mosaics (Select or "full") done by Malcom Addey, NO inferior sound there and in fact they blow away just about any Japanese reissue I have in my collection. The Johnny Hodges and Duke Ellington Reprise sets are a couple of the best sounding reissues you are apt to hear on standard CD, as is the Randy Weston Select. With "full" Mosaics you also get incredible booklets with most of the sets - the type of detailed annotation, commentary, and discography that great musicians deserve. Also note that Cuscuna does sometimes put songs in original LP order, when it either seems logical or when feedback from potential buyers dictates it. But because the later Pearson albums were basically pell-mell assembly jobs there is not a good reason I can see to put the tracks in album order. The Mosaic norm is to go with session order, which may break up LPs but also allows you to in many cases pick up on artist development and things that happened within a session you might miss otherwise. It's a personal thing but there is a method to the madness. I would for these reasons definitely withold judgement on Mosaic if I were you, you're potentially missing out otherwise. I have over 40 sets now (Selects included) and can honestly say that they constitute the backbone of what I feel is a pretty darn good collection.

I SORT of understand some people's less than enthusiastic reactions to yet ANOTHER discussion of who's the best remastering engineer...but also have to say ultimately those reactions also start to sound pretty sanctimonious, just as much as the pontification about who's the best engineer. All this "it's the music that matters" stuff is really kind of a load of crap too, folks, I am sorry to say. The not too subtle insinuation here is "I'm hipper and more of a musical purist than you because I respect the music only, and don't worry about such trifles as sound quality." Not only is this a false assumption, 'cause I think everyone here is pretty much a major music fan, but it does a disservice to the musicians in the cases where a decent reissue COULD be attained and isn't. First, I would venture to say that ALL of us have stuff in our collection that we absolutely love musically that sounds like it was etched into the grooves using a dull rock...we wouldn't BE here, posting on this board, if not. We're fanatics and passionate fans. So OF COURSE it's the music that matters...all of us good people aren't talking about Styx recordings being remastered (well, maybe once in a while, in the "Miscellaneous Music" forum, hell we've been on ELO lately so it can't be far behind... ) - we're talking about JAZZ, and GOOD jazz at that. Second, I have to say, the more I listen and the better my listening system, a nice remastering job most definitely enhances my jazz listening experience. No, it won't make a turd into a silk purse, but it can take an already excellent date and really make it kick even harder. These are WORLD CLASS musicians we're talking about here - they deserve the type of audio treatment that complements their talent. Anything else is kind of an insult, at least when the potential for great sound exists and it's squandered by a hack reissue job. Obviously this is different in cases where we already have the best we're gonna get - say stuff from the 20's and 30's originally out on 78s that's already been done painstakingly. No, it ain't gonna be issued with an SACD layer any time soon, but it's still great music and I think many of the same people who have commented most thoughtfully on remastering issues related to later, more modern recordings are the very folks who love the crackly stuff the most - me included - surface noise and all. In fact, for older recordings like that, give me surface noise over NoNOISE any day of the week. So you CAN have it both ways - love the music, and care about how it's presented. In fact, in my view, if you're a REAL music fan (!) , these two issues should be INEXTRICABLY LINKED in your mind. The remastering bugaboo just rankles me no end when the ability to present the music to its full potential is squandered. Matthew, sorry to pick on this statement but it's rubbing me the wrong way on a Monday AM...as far as I can see, nobody here has mentioned anything like not buying a CD just because a particular remastering engineer they dislike is involved with it...probably some HAVE said that at some point in time on the board, but nobody in this thread has mentioned it. So again, why the harsh reaction? And why weigh in on a discussion you're sick of? I just don't get it.

As you can see from the listing above, the 2 CD JRVG includes not only the SONNY CLARK TRIO session (with all the alternates that have also ppeared in the U.S.) but also the session originally issued only in Japan that was finally issued a few years back as a "regular" BN reissue (no special series like Conn or RVG) called STANDARDS. While I still prefer the SONNY CLARK TRIO stuff by a fairly good margin, the STANDARDS material has really grown on me. At first listen it sounded more subdued than the usual Clark fare, partly due to a fairly conservative rhythm section, but it's still a dandy and, if you're a Clark nut, I suspect it will grow on you with repeated listens.

OK, I'll bite - if you were going to recommend a great front end CD player, not universal, what would you suggest wolff?

This is a group I think will be remembered as one of the greatest...too bad it's in an era in jazz where everyone assumes there ARE no greatest anymore. Anyway, saw them last year and was bowled over. They have fun, serious fun, and it's a joy to listen to them. Their music isn't going to trigger any great sea changes, but they're picking up and running with some threads from the mid- to late-60's "outside in" people - and Wayne was one of those people - that hadn't been yanked on quite this way during the intervening years. Doesn't hurt either that Brian Blade is my favorite current drummer...and again, one reason is that he's picking up where Tony Williams left off in the later 60's, before changing his playing and going in a direction that I never really did warm to.

I have long maintained an interest in trying to keep up with good pop bands, but have not been very successful with new ones since my son was born - just not enough hours in the day, and jazz usually takes priority. Can anyone clue me in on some of the influences for Wilco, and maybe give some idea of who they most sound like? I've heard nothing but praise for HOTEL YANKEE FOXTROT but don't think I have heard anything off it that I could place as being them...

In my view, yes, it's a very nice complement to the COMPLETE QUARTETS set, same level of quality. Green and Clark - what are you waiting for!?!?

Depends on the day and mood - today, I voted "cheesy scholck" because I'm feeling smarmy, but tomorrow perhaps "good pop band." Really, ELO is a great example of the strange phenomenon of the ephemeral that defines true pop music to me..sometimes I want to pull the car radio out of the dashboard and throw it into the path of an oncoming 18-wheeler when I hear one of their tunes, other days I'm bellowing along until I notice the teenage girl in the car next to me is looking at me like the aging dork I am and I hush up. Funny Dan mentioned "Telephone Line" as inescapable during a summer vacation, I remember the very same thing, think I was in 8th grade but maybe a bit later...and tagging in on Jim Sangrey's comment, this is one of their tunes that I think you can hear was done with tongue FIRMLY in cheek and yet also with a great deal of affection for 50's/early 60's pop, PLUS with fantastic production and hooks and arrangement. It's held up, more than well. But much of their other stuff hasn't - perhaps the most misguided and stupid approach to covering a 50's rock and roll tune ever in their turgid rendition of "Roll Over Beethoven." The violins and other touches borrowed from classical music never worked for me either - they just sounded like whining, out of tune, badly recorded electric guitars. Also, the multilayered production most of the time worked agin-em rather than afore-em, burying some of the hooks under a layer of sludge. But I have to say I did really like their drum sound, HUGE and very distinctive. Odd thing: I absolutely LOVE what Jeff Lynne did for Tom Petty's music, and I'd have never guessed that would be a good match. As much as I still love older Petty like HARD PROMISES and DAMN THE TORPEDOES, with the rootsier sound, his absolute greatest singles were with Lynne as producer. Postscript: I like Jim's take on 10CC too - when I'm in the mood for this type of pop thing, I'll take 10CC over ELO on most any given day, and related to my comments above what separates them for me is that 10CC's production was more complementary to their tunes, while many times ELO's production was production for production's sake and actually buried the tunes.

UPON REFLECTION is definitely one of many very fine Hank Jones albums, and the poignancy of the theme is certainly another attraction. I dig it, although can't say I return to it real often for some reason I haven't been able to pinpoint. I was perhaps even a bit disappointed in it, given the high praise I've heard from others and read about (e.g. in the Penguin Guide). Have to say though that my all-time favorite Jones trio date is THE ORACLE (Verve), with Dave Holland and Billy Higgins. That is one remarkable album from start to finish, and many familiar with Jones will be more than a little surprised at the adventurousness of the music. Not that Jones isn't always incredibly sophisticated harmonically, but it's usually a bit more subtle and firmly within the mainstream. THE ORACLE takes the music out just a little bit, certainly not anything avant garde, but has an appealing edge that honestly I find sometimes a little lacking in Jones' music as a leader. A little hard to find these days - I think officially out of print, but it does pop up. Don't miss it. Another amazing one is Jones' entry in the Maybeck hall series, though that I find more typical of his temperment. Still, nice to hear him in the solo format, you can read his thinking even more clearly than usual. As far as Thad goes - I've yet to hear anything he was involved with that isn't worth at least a couple listens.

Yeah, I suspect you're right, and have actually been thinking more along the lines you mention wolff. Probably the best way I'll go. So thanks for the nudge in that direction. The more I consider it, what I am truly most interested in trying to get, first and foremost, is really outstanding 2-channel sound, whether for LP, CD, or SACD.