DrJ

You need to learn wesbed, NEVER trust my feedback about Mosaics - where those sets are concerned I'm pretty much a fanatic!

Got both, both are fine, but the Morgan/Shorter is not just good, it's essential in my view.

Here's my philosophy: if the difference in your A/B test is so subtle that a few seconds pause to switch discs makes you forget all about it, then it's hardly worth fussing over. I agree with Dmitry that if you're an avid listener, you've usually got a highly developed "aural memory" and you're gonna hear and remember important differences regardless of the pause, while the trivial differences will fall away which is probably a good thing (could save you $1000s!). I also don't think manually adjusting the volume to comparable levels for A/B testing is that difficult. Again, if a slight difference in loudness between your A and B disc makes THAT much of a difference in sound quality to your ears, my assertion is that it's not just the volume difference at play but rather a superior remastering. Thus I do A/B's with the same CD player - whatever my current "best" player is - because I want to know what different remasterings are going to sound like through that player. Unless you go and buy two of the same player, which seems a complete waste in most instances, I don't see the point of using two different players UNLESS you're trying to decide about buying one over the other (some audio places will loan them out for home testing for example), a different kind of A/B test where you use a single CD obviously. Another reason to employ a single CD player for A/B's - what Claude says about high end CD players being so similar sounding that it's probably a non-issue, I'm not sure I agree with at all. Based on my recent listening research in assembling a listening room, there are HUGE, readily audible differences between very high end players, e.g. a Mark Levinson vs a Meridian). And again, I'm not a "subtle distinction" kind of guy, I'm only impressed/bothered if I can almost immediately hear differences. At any rate, FOR SURE in the low to mid-range CD player field, I hear HUGE differences among players - not necessarily a better/worse thing, but differences nonetheless. For example, my Pioneer Elite DV45-A has a more detailed, bright sound and seems more responsive than my Onkyo 6-disc changer (which sounds darker and more sluggish and reveals less detail). Some of this relates to the DACs in the unit, some to the transport, some to other circuitry (particularly in "all in one" players), and there are probably many other factors too. Beyond sound coloration (darker versus brighter), as I allude to above, a big difference you can pick up right away concerns responsiveness - some players just sound "sluggish" or slow, like everyone is dragging and the tempos are just a little "off," while others sound right on-the-mark. This effect is a little more subtle, certainly not at the level of playback speed problems that grossly effect pitch, but definitely audible.

Was listening to Elvin's remarkable work on Andrew Hill's JUDGEMENT! and Hubbard's READY FOR FREDDIE last night. On JUDGEMENT!, it's remarkable how he managed to maintain his almost unbelievable drive and intensity (somewhere in the middle section of "Siete Ocho" when he starts to "take it up to the mezzanine" to borrow a phrase from an earlier post here, it feels like your CD player is actually going to levitate), YET still temper it somehow to better match Hill's often dark, more quiet temperament (for example, check out the brushes on "Reconciliation," my favorite track on this particular album...you could still immediately identify the drummer as Elvin, as even with brushes he sounds powerful - and I'm not sure that as a non-drummer I could ever really pick out any other drummer based on their brush work alone). On READY FOR FREDDIE, as I mentioned in another thread, the alternate take of "Arietis" is a virtual jazz drumming clinic. Sure this version is a bit less tight and classic Blue Note polished, but it's amazing nonetheless...everyone solos with more abandon, taking some pretty outrageous chances, and what Jones does behind them all is jaw-dropping and often commands your full attention (maybe one reason why it was relegated to the vaults for so long). Check it out.

I agree with the additional comments of Lon and Jim wholeheartedly. Pepper in his early days (e.g. with Kenton) was to my ears a lot lighter, even exuberant at times although there was still that undercurrent of unease. And BB certainly was more "frisky" as a younger man. The comparison was indeed intended to be with their mature phases, thanks for pointing that out. Jim captures another difference perfectly in his comment about knowing more than one lets on and knowing more than one wants to - priceless, great encapsulation.

I just ordered the Elvin Mosaic set in tribute to and celebration of his life. A force of nature has move to another plane. I take comfort in the notion that wherever he is now, Mr. Jones is still playing and smiling just like always.

Although they couldn't be more different in other ways, one parallel I'd draw in describing the appeal of Pepper would be with B.B. King. As with King, part of Pepper's mystique and magic were that he always held something in reserve, which Jim Sangrey alludes to. B.B. plays guitar that way, and while he's definitely no "virtuoso" in the traditional sense, his incredible restraint and striving to find the least fussy and ornamented path directly to the truth in a song or solo are reminiscent of what I hear in Pepper too. It's funny that people comment about how emotional Pepper was - and I agree he was, too - in this light. He never got "messy" and just "let it all hang out," but reigned it in so you get that delicious tension and sense of longing and unfulfilled passion that comes through in his best work. Part of it is time sense as Jim says, but it extends beyond that to note choice, a steadfast rejection of showy displays of technique that failed to serve the music, etc. A true artist.

I found Mosaic long after the first Hodges box was out of print...since then have pieced together all the materal with single CD, CD-R, etc. While it's undoubtedly fine stuff, the 2nd Mosaic box of slightly later material smokes it, in terms of both musical quality and SOUND. Malcolm Addey did his usual wizardry with original tapes that were already generously well-recorded for the day, and the result is nothing short of magical. I agree with everything Matthew says, this is one of the strongest Mosaics.

LES TRINITAIRES is a keeper as far as I'm concerned...pretty much anything by Hill is. Look, they may not all work out to be "his best" but the guy isn't capable of making an indifferent recording. There are always little high points and fascinations. LES TRINITAIRES is no exception, and the opportunity to hear him play solo at that length (most of the pieces are VERY long and the running time of the disc is generous) is a real luxury. Well recorded too. The whole, way too small Jazz Friends catalog is worthy of close attention. Wish they had better distribution in the U.S., only place I was able to find any of their titles new was in New York City where I snagged the whole lot.

Awesome! Thanks for plugging this idea to Michael, Tom - and Mosaic rocks!

BLUE SPIRITS is darn good - it doesn't gel like an actual "album" because of the various sessions represented with the bonus tracks etc, to me it sounds like more of a sampler, but a really good one. For tenor sax Joe Henderson easily takes honors for me, though Hank sounds great too. That said, BLUE SPIRITS for me is probably 3rd or 4th or 5th on the list in terms of priority for Freddie's BNs, after READY FOR FREDDIE, HUB TONES, and HERE TO STAY (now THAT is gonna be a revelation for many when it's reissued!), and probably BREAKING POINT too. But again that's a fantastic line-up, so SPIRITS is still well worth picking up. NIGHT OF THE COOKERS? Just cannot get into it so far. Have tried and tried. LOOONG tracks with uninspired, almost comically over the top blowing, which was probably one hell of a ride if you were there but just incredibly wearing 30 years later on CD. My only reservation is that if there is a similar sonic upgrade for this one as there was for some of the other RVGs of live dates - e.g. Rollins' Vanguard sessions, the Blakey Birdland and Bohemia stuff - then it could help. The shrillness and complete lack of dynamic range on the original CD issue in the U.S. certainly helps kill any potential joy in this music for me. So we'll see.

This is a GREAT list of Conns...I'm always amazed at the reactions to the Conn lists, they always make me happy! Very cool that DANCE WITH DEATH will finally get a decent remastering - and I think it's underrated by many around here, a very fine album although more in the darkly hued, subdued Andrew Hill bag so takes a while to grow on you. Fantastic about the Hutcherson, too - NOW is pretty good and the bonus tracks are likely to be worth checking out. GREAT!

Definitely get a receiver that has the separate analog inputs to support SACD and DVD-A, I'm pretty sure eventually the format will grow and take off and you'll have that flexibility to expand.

Just have the JAZZ IN PARIS entry for Lafitte and enjoy it a lot. Beautiful tone.

My best wishes to you and your family in this time, Randy. Sounds like she will definitely always live in your memory.

That Mary Jane Girls tune IS wicked catchy...ya know I'm sure but Rick James I think produced (and I think wrote) that one, it has that classic 80's dance club "Rick James beat" going for sure...

I need to check out more Howard Roberts for sure, I don't know enough of his work. I do have a little gem called GOOD PICKINS (Verve, 1956) which I picked up on a Japanese import reissue CD a while back. Outstanding stuff, and a lot more hard driving than I would have predicted. Come to think of it I see a few Roberts Verve albums listed on All Music Guide, would perhaps make a very nice Mosaic Select?!

Hey, don't forget Lee Wiley and Marion McPartland! In terms of influence, both have been huge, one a long time ago...and the other a long time ago, a shorter time ago, now, and hopefully for a long time into the future! Alexander, I dig Rosnes' playing too. How 'bout Geri Allen, folks?

Definitely demo the Dolphy SACD vs CD side by side before "upgrading" if you can...I find the Dolphy Prestige recordings (studio ones at least) to be VERY excellent in terms of the original recordings...I have the Prestige CD box set and they sound great...my suspicion is that any upgrade in sound would be relatively minor unless you have a pretty excellent listening system.

Happy birthday!!!

Please post your impressions if you do take the plunge, undergroundagent - this sounds interesting.

I'm glad Farlow got mentioned, he's one of my top 3 modern jazz guys on guitar, with Grant Green and Jim Hall. Funny how DIFFERENT from each other these guys are, yet I love 'em all so much. No slight meant to all the other fantastic jazz guitarists, especially Wes Montgomery and Kenny Burrell who are real close to these for me, but something about the styles of these "big 3" just slays me. Farlow is a perfect example of an exception to one rule for me - as Jim mentioned so eloquently earlier, he plays such long lines that they are really NOT horn like, although he does borrow some horn phrasing. But overall, his lines are more "guitaristic" than many other jazz guitarists. Normally I prefer the latter school, but Farlow is just so musical in his own way that it's irrelevant. I will say, though, that for me Farlow is kind of the "Tatum of the guitar," meaning that if I'm really serious about listening then I have to put all distractions aside and FOCUS on what he's doing and take it in relatively small doses...in other words, although it's certainly gorgeous music, it isn't good background music for me, it just whizzes by that way, whereas someone like Grant Green I can enjoy in either type of listening (and in fact it's probably better to not focus too much on things like trying to deconstruct his approach to harmony, as he's not nearly as adventurous and tends to fall back on licks, admittedly hip and smart as they are). Hall is a whole other ballgame - I seldom hear ANY "licks-based" playing in his mature work, not that it's not there I'm sure but he's a pro at hiding it! Just so urbane, yet quietly adventurous, and more so as he ages. And after being fortunate enough to see him live (trio at the Vanguard) I'm even more impressed than before with the fantastic tone he gets...the dynamics and subtleties are literally endless. A master.

Sal - no major slur meant on this recording, it is highly recommended I agree. Re: Harland, I'm sure he's phenomenally talented, but to me he sounds a little wrong, or perhaps under-prepared, for some of these tunes (especially what he does to "If I Were a Bell"). He does sound really great on the more modal, "modern" stuff of McCoy's, so I suspect you're right, in the younger company you list he's probably a perfect fit. Partly might be personal taste too - I'm not a big fan of heavy backbeats in jazz, and he does seem to favor them at times (as do many of the younger drummers to my ears - probably the rock era effect), where I'd like to hear a more subtle kind of dancing! I also agree with you, the standard CD layer on this one is so good that it comes really close to the SACD layer even when using a moderate level CD player...I'm upgrading my CD system and as a result probably won't even be using SACD, at least for a while, and on the higher end CD player I suspect the CD layer will actually EXCEED what I've been hearing on the SACD. It is amazingly well done.

OK, the listening room is beginning to take shape! After some very careful comparison listening yesterday, I'm pretty much set on the following: Audio Note Meishu tube amp Zingali Overture 2 speakers (these are the newer version, not the slightly older 2s - and they are even more physically beautiful and sound just as good) Audio Note silver interconnects and speaker cables Audio Note 2.1 DAC (see below!) Audio Note CD Zero transport I have just been floored by the AN/Zingali combination, most vinyl-like, musical, non-fatiguing sound I've ever heard. The Overture 2 is 2/3 of the larger Overture 4, which I'm sure would sound even better but it's too large and $3000 more! Just can't justify that for a small room and when the Overture 2 sounds so fantastic. With the AN DAC, even my Pioneer DV45A (which I brought in and used while demoing) sounded fantastic...we hooked it up first without the DAC and while it was still a great system, the digital harshness and lack of detail and depth were really obvious, immediately, especially on poorer recordings (which I brought because let's face it, a lot of great older jazz was poorly recorded). I found the DAC to be a real important step in a system of this quality...while I'm sure there are good "all in one" players that would sound about as nice, the great thing about the separate DAC and transport is upgrade capacity over time, plus I am now a firm convert to AN's "zero over/upsampling" philosophy after hearing the difference for myself. It flat out don't sound digital! ONE BIG REMAINING QUESTION: Should I go for the AN BALANCED 2.1 DAC or the Signature, which is unbalanced? I've read that balanced is a huge important thing, as well as other opinions that say it's a vastly overrated feature and can actually lead to detriments in sound. Wasn't able to A/B unfortunately, all I heard was the balanced and it sounded phenomenal to me. But if it's not that important, could save me about $600 or so, so figured I'd ask the experts!

Ditto Tom's question. In the absence of that, listen to see if you can tell what's going on with some of the following things: - Pick attack and approach (or do they play sans pick?), because use of a pick or not and then the style of picking they use has a huge influence on sound. I saw a recent Sonny Greenwich solo transcription that pointed out something I hadn't thought about that influences his sound, which is that he uses a lot of "up-picking." Wes Montgomery of course is a classic example of someone who didn't use a pick and had that unconventional thumb style that led to a very beefy sound. - String gauge - some people use telephone cables they're so thick, others lighter gauge, and some mix and match. This definitely can influence the sound. - Axe and amp choice. This is not to say that "Guitar X always sounds like this" or "This amp is always warm" but simply that these things tend to really impact on sound and there are generalizations. Big hollowbodies are going to generally sound very warm, semisolid or solid bodies a little "harder edged" but don't feed back as much. Then there's the whole issue of how the amp is actually deployed - with someone like Joe Pass on the VIRTUOSO album it's almost like he's playing acoustically the amp is so quiet, just there enough to project and thicken the sound a bit. - Use of effects - these can be subtle, like Jim Hall's more recent work, or more obvious, e.g. Bill Frisell. Do they like a disorted or overdriven edge; a little chorus or delay? There's more I'm sure. These are more of the technical aspects of a guitarist's sound...but of course the more musical aspects are of greater importance. Do they tend to use more single notes than chords? Are the lines "horn like" (e.g. not just single notes, but incorporating the phrasing and other elements - e.g. pauses for "breaths" - horn players employ? Octaves? What about the harmonies themselves - are they working at the outer reaches of the harmony a la Eric Dolphy, more mainstream? What do they do with rhythm - cross bar lines, or pretty much work within the bars? It's easier for guitar players than horn players to play very long, fast lines because they don't have to breathe, but other than for effect occasionally this can also sound very wearisome, "running scales" and that may be what you're reacting to wesbed in terms of your ear being more attuned to sax, trumpet, etc. The best guitarists, in my view, realize this and mix it up more, giving the lines room to breathe and sink in. Lots more others will add I'm sure. But these are things it may be good to listen for and think about. If you do I think some of the "what makes that sound so unique" questions will begin to have their answers revealed. Where's Jim R when we need him!?