DrJ

Well said, Soul Stream. I came to both Hargrove's RH FACTOR stuff and Payton's SONIC TRANCE albums with open ears and great hopes - I admire both of these young musicians, although Payton has had a lot more success so far translating his talent to studio recordings in my view. But to put it bluntly, both these albums were major disappointments to me. Hargrove's sounds like "quiet storm" smooth jazz, and Payton's is just, well, flat out bizarre, over-reaching and unfocused, and clumsy. He gets it right and gives us a glimpse of what might have been on only a very few cuts - the "Cannabis Leaf Rag" stuff is really clever and fun, although not exactly a new musical revelation - but the majority of the CD is flat out boring, and Payton sounds so generic it might as well be a trumpet patch on an early 80's digital synth. I've sold my copy back already, so SONIC TRANCE joins a select group of less than 5 CDs by jazz artists (out of over 2000 purchases) that I've ever sold back for any reason other than a sonic upgrade or duplication due to purchase of a boxed set. Payton and Hargrove are clearly struggling to find some type of social context for their music. On one level, I can't fault them - they need to eat, and they are probably tired of the straight ahead bag. But while I think I have pretty big ears - enjoying a broad range of music and being willing to follow an artist pretty far outside their established "norm" if they make it worth my time - this stuff just sounds calculated and insincere. I still contend the best single collection of modern grooves married with jazz sensibility, outside of some of the classics put down in the early to mid 70's by Miles and a few others, is the collection RED, HOT AND COOL (Impulse!) from the early 90's. The reason: that was masterminded and primarily built upon music made by hip hop and other dance-related pop musicians, with some organic and well-chosen jazz touches and cameos woven into the mix. Therefore, it GROOVED like nobody's business, but with a sophistication and polish that could draw in the jazz fan. It just doesn't seem to come off, except in VERY rare cases, when it's set up the other way around - e.g. taking jazzers like Hargrove and Payton for the core and then grafting on the dance music touches. It's hard to express why this might be, but I think it boils down to this: for a jazz musician, accustomed to the conventions (harmonic and otherwise) of the music, it's hard to "go back" and simplify to play convincing dance music...that's not a condescending view, rather the opposite - there's an essential sensibility jazzers tend to lack that is vital for modern dance-oriented music, and that is the commitment and sincerity to the streamlined groove.

Well: TIME FOR TYNER TENDER MOMENTS THE REAL McCOY EXPANSIONS EXTENSIONS ASANTE the COSMOS stuff Other than ASANTE, which is basically two LP's worth of material, the rest are short - 40 minutes or so each. So I'd say probably 5 or at most 6 discs worth...it would be nice if there was some previously unissued material, but probably not. I doubt they would include Tyner's later BN's from the 80's/early 90's (IT'S ABOUT TIME with Jackie McLean, THINGS AIN'T WHAT THEY USED TO BE, REVELATIONS, SOLILOQUY, and MANHATTAN MOODS (w/ Bobby Hutcherson).

I think my opinions fall really close to RDK's. I am both a fan of the music and a collector. I listen carefully to everything I purchase. I feel GOOD about it! To put it another way: I have NEVER regretted picking up a title when I had vacillated about whether to do so. By contrast, I have OFTEN regretted NOT picking up a title when I had the chance to do so but didn't, only to have the title then become scarce or flat out non-existant just when I am feeling ready to give it my full attention.

I agree with you Eric, this stuff should be reissued on CD - I have the old BN vinyl 2-fer and love that music. I'm almost certain Mosaic will eventually do a complete Tyner BN box, it would be a guaranteed strong seller I'd think and the music is top notch. Given that, I wonder if perhaps Mr. Tyner has something to do with the current situation that so many of his BN classics are OOP and that no Mosaic has appeared yet...maybe he doesn't want a box competing with his frequent new recordings and is waiting for the proper time for it to be released? Certainly Cuscuna works with living artists to varying degrees in producing BN reissues (e.g. as with honoring Andrew Hill's request for which date to reissue) and Mosaic sets (e.g. respecting Randy Weston's request that DESTRY RIDES AGAIN not be included in the recent Mosaic Select), and would probably honor such a request. Just speculation, but I wonder...

Well, I'm actually pretty pleasantly surprised - I had hazarded a guess of Ray Charles on the first cut, and he did WRITE it so there was something there that said "Ray" to me. I also picked out Grant Green on what sounds to have been an uncharacteristically un-fluid, bad day and identified a few others including Poppa Lou, so not bad! And I KNEW that tenor player on the last cut was a young'un who hasn't really found his voice on stuff like that yet! Of course, that leaves a WHOLE lot of other stuff that had me stymied, but as they say, AC-CENT-U-ATE THE POS-I-TIVE... AND, most importantly, I found out a few more albums that I MUST track down...tracks 6, 7, and 8 alone were worth the price of admission. Man did I love that Heath/Hampton/Carter/Taylor/Barron track - it IS actually more properly called "Tadd's Delight," although apparently that tune goes under different names. I'm a big Dameron fan, so that was part of the hook, but Heath is on FIRE on that cut, just keep listening and the subtleties just keep multiplying. Fasinating that I thought I heard a Mobley influence, it just didn't sound like I usually find Heath sounds (frankly, I like the playing better here than on just about any other recording of his I've heard). So thanks for the fun and thoughtful collection Dan! COOL STUFF!

Geez, AfricaBrass - with that Hill cover and the one you did for MOTHER SHIP on the Larry Young thread, you need to contact Blue Note PRONTO about job openings in the graphic arts department...seriously!

I'll give some love to more recent releases (well if the 80's can be considered recent, and I think they can by jazz reckoning): Stephen Scott - RENAISSANCE (Verve 1995), a MIGHTY fine piano trio album. If you want a taster, just listen to the remarkable things he does with the old chestnut "Poinciana." Seattle Repertory Jazz Orchestra LIVE (Origin 2002) - a great collective, including Don Lanphere, Jay Thomas, Floyd Standifer, and Clarence Acox. Yeah, it's rep, but superbly done. The music - impeccably chosen, by Ellington, Basie, Miles, Mingus, Thad Jones - sounds fresh and vital. Hank Jones (w/ Dave Holland and Billy Higgins) - THE ORACLE (Verve 1989) - sadly OOP, this may be Jones' crowning achievement as a leader which is of course saying a lot. He's never quite sounded this adventurous while maintaining his "urbanity." Stunning. Joanne Brackeen - ANCIENT DYNASTY (Tappan Zee 1980) - Brackeen, Joe Henderson, Eddie Gomez, and Jack DeJohnette, all on fire. How could it miss? Never on CD to my knowledge.

vibes, I PM'd you - but got that weird error message. It probably went through, but if not, let me know by replying here. Thanks.

Wow, that is WAY overpriced...although I will say I have NEVER seen the Schifrin in a store except for the one copy I found (I don't even remember where it was, think it was in a Tower somewhere).

I really dig that one, AfricaBrass! Cool!

I voted ITS MONK'S TIME...a truly great album, and one that has been unjustly obscure. When you look at the track list you won't see a lot of Monk "favorites" but it's all the better for that. Classic - get it, you won't regret it. Then get the rest.

My Japanese import did come with a booklet, Dmitry. It may take me some time to get to it, but let me know if you want a copy and I can get you one.

I forgot to mention, I have the whole series EXCEPT the Collector's Disc...why I haven't pulled the trigger is hard to say...now that I think about it, I HAVE to have it...

Well, this is more like it! Glad to see some action here, sorry I've been away past couple of days. What Lon said really struck a chord with me also, this is music that just puts me in a good mood almost no matter what is going on in life or the world. The world needs more of this music.

Yeah, OUT OF THE STORM is a real killer; short in length, but full of great playing. Cool that you got Thigpen's autograph! Speaking of Clark Terry, his entry as a leader (CLARK TERRY) is one of my favorites also. The original session is wonderful, with Terry in top form on some great early Quincy Jones compositions and the great Jimmy Cleveland again being represented. As a bonus on the CD, Verve included a contrived but, with 50 years of hindsight, rather charming session called CATS VS. CHICKS set up by Leonard Feather (Terry was in on this one, thus the connection). This was a "girls against boys" kind of thing, but done with good humor and allowing a glimpse of some excellent, under-recorded female jazzers of the era including Lorraine Geller. Not to mention the presence of Terry, Tal Farlow, and other greats). There are countless such gems in this series, which was all about rescuing great music from obscurity and giving it the treatment it deserved. Truth be told, in many ways this series surpassed BN's admittedly great Conn series in terms of quality (sonic, packaging) and truly unexpected salvages.

NOW you have me intrigued, Harold Z...can you say a bit more about all three of those titles? Also, I wonder if you have heard a Ruby Braff album from the 50's on Epic called BRAFF! I have passed this up at a used store in the Bay Area a couple of times (vinyl, not on CD unless I'm mistaken) but wonder if I should have snagged it.

I picked up the BLONDE ON BLONDE hybrid 2 CD set this past weekend. To my ears it is LOADS improved compared to the old CD and also compared with my vinyl copy. It's got a bit of that Sony/Legacy shrillness on the high end, but the clarity, definition, and degree of separation between instruments is way improved on both the regular CD and SACD layers, and the expanded dynamic range of the SACD is quite lovely. A winner, on sale now at Tower.

This thread was inspired by a question that someone asked me in another thread when I made a passing reference to the Verve Elites...I hope those who saw this post in that thread will indulge me the "double post," I've largely cut and pasted what I said there: The Elite series was sort of like Verve's version of the Connoisseur series - more obscure titles from the catalog. Like the Conns, there were several runs, but then they ended up folding the more obscure titles into their LP sleeve and other reissue series, which has meant that they do less and less obscure stuff, just a few mixed in here and there with the Getz, Gillespie, etc "mainstays" of their catalog (not that those aren't often excellent, but still...). For example, it's probable the recent Billy Mitchell reissue would have been an Elite. Also like the Conns, often they'd throw in as a bonus other obscure/unreleased stuff. The sound quality was uniformly excellent, and the packaging (well, except for the first few which came in a bizarre peek-a-boo slipcase that was totally unnecessary) was quite nice, with repros of the original artwork and labels as well as new graphics. The liners were often quite good too; original notes were always included, but they invariably added new stuff, often including things like interviews with the leader or a key player from the session in addition to the usual historical material. If it sounds like I was really fond of this series, it's because I was. I BELIEVE this is a full listing (in no particular order) - the first run were issued in September 1997 and the last in August 2000: Billy Bauer - PLECTRIST INTRODUCING JIMMY CLEVELAND AND HIS ALL STARS LISTEN TO ART FARMER AND THE ORCHESTRA Dizzy Gillespie - PERCEPTIONS (great J.J. Johnson here) Illinois Jacquet - THE KID AND THE BRUTE (w/ Ben Webster) Hank Jones - URBANITY Yusef Lateef - BEFORE DAWN (stands nicely with his roughly contemporary Savoys) Meade Lux Lewis - CAT HOUSE PIANO Paul Quinichette - THE VICE PRES Alan Shorter - ORGASM Jack Teagarden - THINK WELL OF ME CLARK TERRY Dinah Washington - THE BEST IN BLUES THIS IS TAL FARLOW Sonny Stitt - ONLY THE BLUES Harry Edison - THE SWINGER/MR. SWING (2 CD set)(Jimmy Forrest is basically co-leader) Lee Konitz - MOTION (3 CD version - as opposed to the replication of the original LP only for the more recent edition) JOHNNY SMITH The Jazztet - HERE AND NOW Lawrence Brown - SLIDE TROMBONE Art Blakey - BLAKEY (w/a bonus date led by Joe Gordon) Ray Brown - BASS HIT! Roy Eldridge - SWINGIN' ON THE TOWN The Jones Brothers - KEEPIN' UP WITH THE JONESES (originally on MGM) Walt Dickerson - IMPRESSIONS ON A PATCH OF BLUE (ditto) Buddy DeFranco/Oscar Peterson - THE GEORGE GERSHWIN SONGBOOK Modern Jazz Society - A CONCERT OF CONTEMPORARY MUSIC (John Lewis, Getz, Lucky Thompson, and others) HERB ELLIS MEETS JIMMY GIUFFRE (some nice Art Pepper on this one too) George Russell Sextet - AT THE FIVE SPOT Wynton Kelly - IT'S ALL RIGHT! Stan Getz and the Clarke-Boland Big Band - CHANGE OF SCENES Louie Bellson - SKIN DEEP Lalo Schifrin - DISSECTION AND RECONSTRUCTION OF MUSIC FROM THE PAST AS PERFORMED BY THE INMATES...(and it just keeps on going, you have to see the title to believe it, this is not a joke!) Ed Thigpen - OUT OF THE STORM (w/Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Kenny Burrell) Various - ELITE EDITION COLLECTORS' DISC One last thing to mention is that, unlike the Conns, it seems these were often given a very spotty distribution...often unless you snagged them in the first few months after issue, they disappeared, and in fact a few (the Lalo Schifrin and Johnny Smith come to mind) were some of the harder CDs I've ever tried to track down. As all are out of print now, you may have a task ahead of you to locate some of these if you're interested. Anyone else want to give up some love for this outstanding series? And if so, how MUCH love have you given in the way of hard earned cash in exchange for how many titles?

I'm a huge fan of these recordings (obviously, not old enough to have actually ATTENDED any of these events!). The JATP box is a little miniature history of jazz, not a bad place for someone to start who is trying to get a sense of the history of jazz from the swing era up through Parker and Gillespie (assuming they don't have to have pristine studio sound). Yeah, the view they'd get would be a little warped, but not so much that they wouldn't know how to go forth from there. You know, JATP looks so UN-circuslike from a 2003 vantage point...in an era where it seems every other jazz recording has to have some producer- or label-enforced theme - most of which are rather stiffly and unorganically executed - the idea that simply "arranging" things by bringing stars from disparate backgrounds together to jam on some well-worn changes is creating a "circus" is kind of comical to me. If only all jazz concepts these days were as loose and open to the interpretation and fire of the individual artists.

Must say I'm a bit disappointed at the lack of discussion of this one - as I suspected, I think it reflects the general disinterest in pre-bop jazz on the board (not to say there is none, but far less interest than in, say, soul jazz and post-bop modern mainstream). Anyone else diggin' Vic and Ruby and crew?

Snagged a "very good" used copy at half.com this am for $61.99. Cannot wait to hear this one.

I've often wondered how many others use the Ikea BILLY racks...I have several of the tall ones, with the frosted glass doors, wall-secured. Not inexpensive, but certainly far less expensive than some of the racks pitched at audipphiles that go for 3-4 times as much.

OK, now I've peeked at others' responses and I feel even more silly about not being able to name track 4...geez! Humbling stuff...but fun. B) Also: you guys are starting to make me sweat about #2 - I am PRETTY sure it's Joe Williams, although I did entertain the idea of OC Smith (anyone who has heard the Basie live Roulette material will know why), and now this Rawls suggestion is nagging at me...naw, it HAS to be Williams.

Got mine today...here are my thoughts. Note that where there is an "AFTER" designation, that's my thoughts AFTER I did some extra sleuthing (but before reading anyone else's posts), everything else is first impression, no added help from references of any kind. OBTW, theme of the disc? Not sure, but there were an awful lot of definitely live recordings (some could have been with crowd noise removed), and an awful lot that are probably vinyl only. So those would be guesses, beyond the thematic link being bluesy, soulful jazz. 1. From vinyl, live recording, sounds like 60’s or early 70’s vintage. Gospel-influenced soul piano bag. Les McCann? Gene Harris? Maybe even Ray Charles, to hazard a truly wild guess? Whatever, I often like understated and simple, but this was those things to a fault for me - kind of a string of clichés. Didn’t excite me. 2 stars. 2. If it’s not Joe Williams singing, it’s his clone. "I’d Rather Drink Muddy Water." Nothing too heavy, but a lot of fun, jiving with the crowd. Couldn’t tell you which album it’s on. My collection is woefully short on Williams, need to get remedy that. 3 stars. 3. Funny intro with that bass line, it almost sounded like the pop tune "Stand By Me!" The alto player has a REALLY Lou Donaldson-esque tone - that bright but ultimately kind of sweet-edged sound - is it Sweet Poppa? Fairly simple soulful jazz, sounds like mid to late-60’s vintage. Piano player I wasn’t sure on, but the first one who would pop to mind due to the vintage would be Herman Foster. Sign me up for this session, a hip tune and recording! 4 stars AFTER: This may be track 5 of this album: Number 3 4. This one drove me nuts - I know this tune, but for the life of me I couldn’t come up with the name. Damn. Kind of lukewarm on this rendition, it’s pleasantly funky but ultimately a little mundane. Pretty sure it’s a baritone sax rather than a tenor, but it could be a REAL full toned tenor I suppose (and boy will I feel silly if it is). So, who plays funky baritone - Ronnie Cuber, maybe? Cecil Payne? Aw, I don’t know, those don’t feel right…2.5 stars. 5. A two-tenor date, they blend well. Sounds like 50’s or early 60’s vintage recording, some reverb on there. Pianist is playing firmly within the "less is more," Basie kind of mode. Stumped again. Could Billy Mitchell be one of the tenors (second solo), maybe an Argo date? 3 stars. 6. Tadd Dameron tune, "Tadd’s Delight," what a great piece of music. Nice, full tone on the ‘bone – sounds Curtis Fuller-esque. The tenor really blew me away, outstanding solo full of all kinds of playfulness around the beat. Unhurried, nice round sound - in fact, I know it couldn’t be him, but damn this guy has listened to his early period Hank Mobley! Sign me up for this side now, I want a copy - 5 stars! 7. Parker tune, "Billie’s Bounce." Breakneck pace, blazing. My first thought on the alto was Art Pepper based on tone, but then there were those amazingly fast phrases and Pepper never played with that kind of speed, and then I realized the tone was not quite right - too tart, too overtly hot for Pepper (pardon the pun). Sonny Criss would be my first guess, there’s some underlying "West Coast" feel about this one (not in a pejorative sense) that I can’t put my finger on. But I really don’t know. On trumpet then: maybe Conte Candoli? Loved the piano – hip player, logical and humorous quotes. Frank Strazzeri? I would be interested to hear the whole recording, this was fun. 4.5 stars. 8. Good old standby, "Since I Fell For You. My first thought on this was Shirley Scott and Stanley Turrentine, mainly because of the tenor player’s tone - that kind of "alto on tenor" tone especially in the high registers. But as far as I know, Stanley only did this tune on the BLUE HOUR sessions, and that was with piano. So I don’t know. The guitar player sounded a WHOLE lot like Grant Green in terms of some of the pet licks and ideas, but without his usual singing tone and fluidity - the latter could be due to recording limitations, the former - "personal problems" getting the best of him? I enjoyed this, uncomplicated soulfulness that would sound killer in a club. 3.5 stars. AFTER: This could be this recording: Number 8 9. The beginning of the melody and harmonic progression are really reminiscent of "Glad to Be Unhappy," one of my favorite jazz ballads, but I’m almost certain it’s not that tune, and what tune it IS I just can’t quite recall. Pretty melody. I really have no idea who the players are. It’s a fairly recent recording. One thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the piano: too cute, I just didn’t like the harmonic additions he made, too "flowery" and sweet. The tenor sounded kind of flat or detached. So this was just OK, not a lot about any of the playing moved me. 2 stars. 10. I really dug this one but haven't a clue who it is. Some nice unison work between piano and tenor. AWESOME intro to the piano solo…very nicely done, I WANT this one…I have no idea who it is, though. Good tune also…would guess Junior Mance or Les McCann on piano. For the sax, someone who’s listened a lot to Coltrane and has fully assimilated some of his devices, but goes back further for their main inspiration or was active before Trane. Horrible direct bass sound on the solo. But that aside, a gem - 4.5 stars. 11. Tune is obviously Wayne Shorter’s "Footprints." Really nice version, I enjoyed this a lot. Again I really have no clue who it is. Outstanding bassist - not sure who, though. Pianist has some Latin influence going, I heard elements of Chick Corea in there. Drummer sounds seasoned, I thought about Billy Hart at several points. Regardless, I’d like this whole recording for sure. 4 stars, would have been more but there's a little feeling of playing it safe, reigning things in, where less controlled abandon might have put it into the "classic" realm. AFTER: This MIGHT be this album: Number 11 12. Really no idea, but I’d guess an organ player of older vintage, maybe Wild Bill Davis. A little overcooked, shall we say, but agin would probably be great fun in a live situation. 2.5 stars, maybe 3 in the proper mood. 13. This one was tedious for me, slow going most of the way. The piano player used way too many pat flutters and licks and the rhythm section was metronomic. I dug the tenor player more when he began his solo, started out strong but then ran out of ideas half way through and it all became real tedious again. Again, not that I’m against these types of long, slow affairs but they have to be done JUST RIGHT to work. If I had to guess, I’d say a young-ish tenor player (boy am I goin’ out on a limb here - it’s probably some seasoned veteran and I’ll get my rear end FLAMED…) 1.5 stars. Ah, that's it - can't wait to PEEK now. Thanks for a great CD-R Dan, I thoroughly enjoyed it and you've sold me a few recordings at least - all the ones 4 stars and higher I'll be trying to locate pronto.

Oh yeah, you'll be kicking yourself later if you don't. A real good one.