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There are a few sellers at GEMM that are listed as having the LP, including this one that seems to have one in stock for $2.50. From California with Love.

I have really enjoyed what little Garzone I have heard - in particular with The Fringe.

I think JohnS' post above was related to the Coltrane book.

Larry and Allen, Thanks for patiently indulging me. I was tempted to put together a CDR compilation of some stuff I think is far more representative of Murray's value and development than the last exposure each of you have had. I would be sincerely interested in whatever additional impressions you get from some of what I believe Murray's best work is, but I think I have taken this far enough already. Its been very interesting though. By the way Allen I only had a chance to listen to Woyzeck's Death once while driving, but my initial impression was definately positive. I am looking forward to giving it a more attentive listen.

Maybe I should clarify my thoughts somewhat. I might agree that the basic elements of Murray's style have not changed. However, I think that Murray's maturity as an artist over the duration of his career has added a significant amount of substance to his playing and for me at least, I hear a much more compelling saxophonist than what I have heard of earlier David Murray. As an example, some of the discussions in this thread have motivated me to go back and listen to earlier Murray with some of the criticisms noted in mind. This morning, during my brief commute into work I listened to the first track (about 20 minutes) of Murray's 1978 recording, The London Concert. In Murray's solo on that track Murray's allegiance to Ayler is clear in his sound and I can also hear some of what Larry discusses regarding his playing with (or not exactly with) the rhythm section. As Murray has matured I think the Ayler influence is less prevalent in his playing and instead he has synthesized some of his other influences like Sonny Rollins and Ben Webster into something else. I have not heard the recording that Allen Lowe and Murray play on together so I can't comment on that, but I am curious Allen whether you are disappointed with this recording on the whole?

I suppose this is the primary issue we disagree on.

I was hesitant about bringing this thread back to life because I did not want to come across as an obsessed fan that is not open minded enough to be able to consider critical assessments of an artist that I admire. Nonetheless, since I have had an opportunity to read Larry Kart’s book, Jazz In Search Of Itself, I feel compelled to at least comment on the discussion in the book about David Murray that was referenced by Allen Lowe for the benefit of those who have not yet read the essay. First, I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading the entire book. All of the pieces were informative, entertaining and filled with thought provoking analysis. I highly recommend this book to anyone that enjoys reading jazz criticism. With that said, in my opinion the comments in the book regarding David Murray have a somewhat limited relevance to a discussion of Murray’s career. As best I can tell, Murray is only discussed in an essay titled “The Death of Jazz”, which is dated 1985. In the piece Mr. Kart expresses concern regarding the growing trend of neoclassicism or revivalism in the music. Mr. Kart cites Wynton Marsalis and David Murray as key figures in the trend of neoclassicism. In Murray’s case Mr. Kart appears to be arguing that Murray sought to emulate a style of playing characterized by Albert Ayler without establishing his own identify. Interestingly, Mr. Kart borrows a phrase from another critic and states that Murray “fills roles rather than playing from self”. Putting aside whether I agree that Murray was ever part of a trend toward neoclassicism, I think the limited relevance of the piece should be obvious. The essay was written in 1985 when Murray was approximately thirty years old. At the time Murray was not a “young lion”, but twenty years have passed since the essay was written and Murray’s music has evolved considerably since then. If anything, the essay is most useful as an assessment of Murray toward the beginning of his career when he had yet to completely internalize his initial influences and use them to develop his own voice. While based on what I have heard I believe that David Murray had a distinctive approach at the time the essay was written, in the time since then I firmly believe that although he is not an innovator, Murray has developed his own identity and he continues to search. Because of his initial impressions Larry Kart admittedly has not paid much attention to David Murray since the mid eighties. If Larry ever had the time and more importantly the interest in following up on where Murray has gone since then, I for one would be very eager to read an assessment on David Murray’s now thirty year career in the music.

I still have no idea where or when this performance took place.

When? Where? Who else was in the trio?

Mike, By coincidence I just received in the mail today a copy of a radio broadcast by this group. Here are the details. July 14, 1995 Cirkusbygningen, Copenhagen Art Farmer, Benny Golson, Curtis Fuller, Michael Weiss, Buster Williams, Carl Allen Whisper Not (15:48) Are You Real (13:35)

Any particular reason for the question?

Sorry, no. I know it is not your question, but I have heard the recent disc with Mark Whitecage and an organist whose name I can not recall. Liked that one a lot.

I was not, but will definately have to look into it further.l

Over the past 18 years I have been present for a number of memorably concerts and it would be very difficult to idenfy any of them as the best. A couple of particularly memorable performances are the first time I saw Andrew Hill in the late eighties at the Knitting Factory in the group that included Bobby Hutcherson, Greg Osby, Rufus Reid and Ben Riley. At the time I was still relatively new to the music and that performance sealed it for me as far as Andrew Hill was concerned. In the summer of 1995 I was present for Gary Bartz's remarkable performance at Bryant Park as part of the JVC Jazz Festival. It was a free concert on a day that included other Atlantic recording artists. Bartz' quintet with Eddie Henderson and George Colligan were the next to last group. They played a continuous set for about an hour that captivated the entire audience and when they finally stopped playing the entire park erupted. James Carter came on next and his set of mostly ballads was a big anti climax. I was studying for the bar exam that summer and that was just the study break I needed. I had a similar expience with Wayne Shorter's quartet (Perez, Patitucci, Perez) a couple of years ago at the Litchfield Jazz Festival. My expectations were not very high because their Verve recordind did not really do much for me, but their performance that day was simply mesmerizing. A couple of years ago at the Charlie Parker Jazz Festival in NYC I remember one day with excellent performances by Greg Osby's quartet with Jason Moran and a group with Tom Harrell and Joe Lovano that were extremely impressive. I was particularly fascinated with Harrell, who was not the exhibitionist that many musicians are, but he was telling such compelling stories in his solos that I found simply amazing. One last one that I will mention is David Murray's octet performing the Picasso Suite at the Knitting Factory. The passionate soloing alone made that one of the most exciting performances I have personnel witnessed. There are many more concerts that I have found particularly memorable over the years, but to attempt to recount all of them here will probably get excrutiatingly painful for the reader.

Sanborn seemed to fit comfortably on Tim Berne's Diminuitive Mysteries.

On my way to hear Yosuke Yamashita last night I listened to Edward Wilkerson Jr.'s Light On The Path, a 1994 recording on the Sound Aspects label. Its a quartet date with Rod McGaha (tp), Harrison Bankhead and Reggie Nicholson. Very interesting compositions and great playing by everyone. Its the kind of recording that makes you wish there were more recordings under Wilkerson's name in a small group where he is the featured horn. What I have heard of his 8 Bold Souls recordings I really like, but the emphasis in those recordings seems to be more on Wilkerson's writing and the group sound as opposed to his own immense talent as an instrumentalist. Other than recordings with the Ethnic Heritage ensemble, I am not aware of any of recordings featuring Wilkerson in a smaller group. Anyone know of any others that I am missing? Motivated by the discussion in the David Murray thread, this weekend I received Buell Niedlinger's Big Drum with Marty Krystall and Woyzeck's Death by Allen Lowe and Roswell Rudd. I listened to most of the Neidlinger yesterday while driving around with the children. Krystall is a new voice to me so he is going to require further listening, but my initial reaction is that he definately has something to say. I am not ready to trash all my David Murray recordings, but I am looking forward to hearing more Krystall.

Tonight I was able to catch Yosuke Yamashita’s New York Trio with Cecil McBee and Pheeroan akLaff at Wesleyan University’s Crowell Concert Hall. Overall, the show was more than worth the $12 non-student admission price. The trio has been playing together for fifteen years and as a result has established a good rapport with each other. They played a very diverse set of tunes. There were the post bop piano trio songs, a few songs influenced by Japanese traditional music and a couple of tunes that ventured somewhat out. Despite the variety, everything fit and everyone in the trio seemed to be enjoying themselves. Yamashita was very impressive, showing a virtuosity and imagination that was matched by his ability to listen. At times I thought some of the unaccompanied bass and drum solos went on a little too long. The group really sounded best when everyone was interacting with each other. Nonetheless, both McBee and akLaff proved themselves to be able to produce musical solos that held your attention and always sounded related to the piece. Like I said, an overall enjoyable live experience, which was completed by me searching for an ATM machine after the performance and driving back to the hall during the reception so that I could purchase the trio’s 15th anniversary recording, Pacific Crossing, which akLaff and McBee stated has only been released in Japan.

How's that one? Point From Which Creation Begins:, The Black Artists' Group of St. Louis. I still have not finished it, but I am enjoying it and finding it informative.

I think that description and the connotations it brings may be somewhat limited in Stafford's place. True, he will likely never win the avant garde trumpeter of the year award, but I have heard him in some settings where he gets somewhat more adventurous than the "neo-traditionalist" tag would imply. Check him out on the Lester Bowie tribute on Matt Wilson's Arts And Crafts and you might hear what I am trying to articulate. In any event, I think he is a fine trumpeter whose playing I have enjoyed for a while.

That is exactly one of the questions I was hoping one of our more learned members could help me understand.

Thanks for the link to the interview. There was also a very informative multi part feature in Coda last year that is worth reading.

As a result of reading this thread for the first time this week I ordered this book today. When you add this to Larry Kart's book, which I ordered earlier this week and the Joe Harriott, Wayne Shorter, Anthony Braxton, South African Jazz, Rollins and a couple of other books in the pile on my night table, I have an intensive period of jazz reading ahead of me. Of course, I first have to finish the Black Artists Group book. Looking forward to it all.

Any impressions on John Stubblefield? He is one of my favorite saxophonists, but in comparison to others his discography (especially as a leader) is slim. I caught him live once and he was great. I own his three recordings on Enja and another one on Soul Note. I also have a few unissued radio braodcasts of live performances featuring Stubblefield. While I enjoy them all, I am not sure that any of them really captures Stubblefield's best. Anyone have any recommendations on the definitive Stubblefield performance?

Shades is easily my favorite within the time frame specified. I love them all, but the East Wind recordings would also rate high for me.

The David Murray thread got a little sidetracked with the compilation of a list of saxophonists who occupy a realm that is both "inside" and "outside". Since I love these edgy musicians who push at the boundaries without necessarily going completely out, I thought a more detailed discussion of the topic would be interesting while I wait for my Buell Neidlinger disc with Marty Krystall to arrive. So who are some of your favorite inside/outside saxophonists and why? What recordings would you recommend? Ideas on how we define an "inside/outside" musician might be just as interesting as a discussion on the actual artists. Any thoughts on that issue?