robertoart

So first of all, Burrell's performance of Stolen Moments is criticised by you as such - "and though he at least tried to use some of those cluster voicings that are the essence of the greatness of that tune, he fell far short of capturing it, either harmonically or even being able to play it at the correct tempo", fair enough if that is your perception, but then for good measure you add with a hubris that I never see here from the musicians who contribute - "And if you're saying to your screen, "Oh yeah, let's see you do a better job", the answer is, "yes, I can". Then later on Burrell's version is described by you as 'great'. Perhaps some consistency to go with your EGO? BTW what Burrell version are you talking about? Is it the one on Moon And Sand?

This thread has got me listening to KB again a bit more. it also coincided with visiting an Antipodean equivalent of 'the County Fair and hearing my old guitar teacher play for the first time in 15 odd years. Back then he was Scofield-ised in a very learned kind of way. So it was a nice surprise to hear him last week with an L5, reminding me so much of KB (and then some). The Velvet Glove was very much in evidence. And hearing him did my heart good. He might even let me hang with him in an 'over a cup of coffee' kind of way . So you should always be wary of making claims (sgcim), because like James Blood Ulmer said about his days on the Chitlin circuit 'there was always that 'one guy' - maybe in overalls who never left the farm much - whose guitar playing would run your ass right out of town'.

Just WTF does Ethan Iverson mean by a 'whiff of The Ray Brown Trios"? What he better mean is "predictably excellent" but in context, I don't think so. With Gene Harris, that "whiff" is fucking heaven if you ask me. No, Iverson did not make this statement. Iverson used the term 'Ray Brown Trios' to describe younger generations of musicians being complacent with a generic standard. Of course, with a masterful survivor like Burrell, the fine line between generic professionalism and complacency can be drawn. But it is not really a fair one when taken into consideration against the longevity and age of the man. I was just listening to Up The Street And Around The Corner, and there is a fire in that very 'straightforward' music, that is to me just heaven. I assume this is recorded with the guitar and tone jimr refers too. The 'Velvet Glove' is still incendiary there. And the music has that 'post Coltrane modal vibe' - cross pollinating with the 'Lounge vibe' that I just love. It maybe changes a bit later, perhaps coinciding with the 'Ellingtonia' era for the man. and the changing times.

I suppose Tristano is the original progenitor of the 'cryogenic purity' of 'the math' - Nothing Dirty.

I think he'd made his mark well before 1995. There is always a whiff of what Ethan Iverson calls 'the 'Ray Brown Trios' in much of Burrell's later day work, albeit through a veterans lens. But as MG say's, sometimes that what you need/want.

There is the sports beauty too, although this is not that beautiful. This is like county-fair beautiful, where you're supposed to like it barbecue WOOOO!!!! and then go home and wake up the next morning to do the chores, because that's what life is REALLY all about, all the while remembering that WOOOO!!!! that you got to see at the fair, last night/last week, last month, last year, that one time. Unless of course your gig is plying the county fair circuit, in which case you gotta look for that WOOO!!!!, keep it lively, and keep it ever WOOOO!!!ier as the years pass, because people got tv now. The 'math' perspective is all very well and fine if 'the math' existed in a rarefied 'atmosphere' all to it's own. But it doesn't. It especially doesn't in the various Fusion worlds. The social reality of the musicians (and the music) intrudes on it. Kinda like Sport and TV. Easy solution: Know before you buy. Yeah. But this isn't Home Shopping Weekly. Or is it?

The trio stuff and some other tributaries sound worthy for sure, but I think that many of the truly great musicians who thrive on diversity, have a consistency of aesthetic or even an integrity of vision that grounds their oeuvre - even when not matched by overall quality at times. Corea, I just feel, really 'believes' in the goodness of too many naff music environments. I know it still means his good stuff is good stuff, but it puts me off making the time to find out. I suppose this is why threads like this can be good for the 'naysayers' to dig a little deeper.

Math is a beautiful thing. But you gotta remember that it's math-beautiful, not woman-beautiful, or even perfect-high beautiful. Not everybody remembers, not all the time. Not that they always should. But... Yes it's a good thought and very true. However, I don't think that really can/or does stand alone as the overarching principle or even raison d'etre of the many tasteless projects Corea and others from his Mullet Fusion milieu pass off as creative music. Whatever beauty is in 'the maths alone' is defaced by the production/ electronics or general 'sports performance' heart that drives the aesthetic. Seriously, the 'maths' of some of this shit, is no more intricate on face value than the stuff a Kenny G might play. And even more appallingly - less earthy too. The 'math' of Coltrane is beautiful, the 'math' of some of those that stand on his shoulders less so.

A gazillion Guitar duet albums. One not mentioned is Emily Remler/Larry Coryell - Together. But in terms laid out by the OP, these are really the equivalent of Piano/Guitar or Piano Duet albums, such as perhaps the Larry Young/Joe Chambers Keyboard duets. What would be interesting guitar wise, would be duets where one guitar didn't fall into the default piano/harmony role. There are possibly examples of such a more fluid encounter. Joe Morris and someone maybe? Plenty of Derek Bailey collaborations must meet the criteria. Sonny Sharrock dueting with himself on Guitar. String Trio Of New York, Oh that's got Bass. Did Billy Bang do any duets or trio's that count? Also James Blood Ulmer's - Harmolodic Guitar With Strings, Ornette's - Skies Of America? Did Abdul Wadud, Arthur Blythe and Bob Stewart have a trio at one time?

What a great band Captain Matchbox were. A Jug Band. I was too young to buy albums in 1973, but have wonderful memories of Australian Music from that era on the radio and black and white TV. It was an oddball culture in Oz then, that produced a bunch of dags like Cpt. Matchbox. One of my favourite lines that made sense to me as I got older... 'Glen Waverley Imperialism is Here To Stay'. Nice People...Nice Houses.

Only ever heard this retrospectively, as i was an emergent Bay City Rollers fan when this came out originally. I bet not many had a copy of this in 1973.

Here's where the problem is: No one knows who the fuck you are. So saying "yes I can" just makes you an internet tough guy with nothing to back it up. You'd be better off making your criticism and leaving it at that. Or telling us who you are and pointing us to <i>your</i> record with the superior version of "Stolen Moments". When you tell us who you are, I'm sure we'll be able to see that you're the modern-day KB, having racked up dozens and dozens of sideman gigs, where your particular bag is always technically perfect.

To be fair, I don't think anyone is really defending this stuff. My wife's dad loved "Keytar Chick" back in the day so she's always incredulous when I listen to him (which is to say the "good" ones). That is one mental hurdle she can't jump! Yeah, I know. I just can't for the life of me, work out how musicians that have been as 'intellectually' brilliant as Corea has (and even 'conceptually great at times), can actually 'believe' in the 'art' of some (most) of the stuff that subsumes his musical 'vision'.

Here's where the problem is: No one knows who the fuck you are. So saying "yes I can" just makes you an internet tough guy with nothing to back it up. You'd be better off making your criticism and leaving it at that. Or telling us who you are and pointing us to <i>your</i> record with the superior version of "Stolen Moments". When you tell us who you are, I'm sure we'll be able to see that you're the modern-day KB, having racked up dozens and dozens of sideman gigs, where your particular bag is always technically perfect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cz4sjgckK0

The great Kenny Burrell playing something beyond his reach perhaps? That was the beauty of music back then.

And modest too. I don't think anybody would be saying anything like that 'to the screen'. Who gives a fuck if you can play an Oliver Nelson chart better than Kenny did in 1957 or something.

Do you guys/and or gals actually listen to this stuff....like......VOLUNTARILY? This is SMOOTH JAZZ for Particle Physicists. If INXS could play Giant Steps it would sound like this.

What about this one from 1973!

I was just learning to form coherent sentences and play air guitar.

The pitch/tone sound your trying to identify in Scofield, is, I believe, an outcome of his Legato technique, which means he plays his lines with lots of hammer-ons and pull-offs. A process native to the Guitar. I have an audio copy of a superb clinic Scofield did in the early 80's, where he identifies this for the students. The basic transcription is... "I have very bad right hand technique, I can't alternate pick very well, and so what I've learned to do and what a lot of other players lately have learned to do, and this is the sort of Jim Hall legato type school, is to not actually pick every note, but using hammer-ons - where the second note is hammered on - it's not actually picked - and using pull-offs - which is the same process in reverse...and finger slides. I've basically learned how to play fairly quickly - and to me sometimes it's even a smother sound than alternate picking. So if I were to play a Cmajor scale - I would play the first one - then hammer on - then pick the second and third - then hammer on -then pick the next one -then the next one -then hammer on.....now if I try to do that using alternate picking...yuk...I can't get nothing out of it. It sounds really bad. So I use a legato technique and not pick every note" So there you go. Pat Metheny has a variation on this approach, and so does Bill Frisell. I tend to to like the alternate pickers such as Martino and Benson

'Overt Bluesiness' Got it in one right there. Someone should write a paper on it... John Scofield Towards a Praxis Of Overt Bluesiness In American Improvised Music, For Profit And Pleasure

Star People was the first time I was able to catch 'the Miles bus' in 'real' time. All the 'guitar boys' had a hard-on for Fat Time, until they heard 'Sco' on Star People. I think I got off at the next stop though, or maybe the one after that Never used 'the Miles bus' again, unless the car broke down, or I was too drunk to drive. Oh yeah, I did get interested again when I heard Jean Paul Bourelly was in the mix, now there's a 'badass'.

So this song was written by Shilkret and Austin, Appropriating Black gospel music. It's 'secular' status then becomes something determined only by knowledge of the composers (or highly attuned crap meters like those of jsngry). Apparently the song was used as a substitute for Old Man River in an early film version. The difference between gospel and secular interpretation in the context of Tharpe's presentation is closer to a Black performer re-appropriating the song back into a Black Gospel expression. The lack of investigation or acknowledgement by the doco makers of the 'White Appropriators of Gospel' seems hardly relevant here given the context of Tharpe's performative use of the song.

Any recommendations for Kenny Burrell Organ sessions (as leader or sideman) with anyone other than Jimmy Smith?

It looks like to embed video - you click on the 'specialBBcode' icon to the immediate left of the 'font' drop down menu. When you click on the 'specialBBcode' icon follow the 'please select' drop down menu - and click 'media'. In the screen that pops up, paste your url link in the square marked 'media URL' then make your post, and video will show up instead of just the url link. There may be an easier way, but this is now working for me.