robertoart

I think it would have been a miracle for Burrell to have emerged at that time with that tone (and lines), and not been from a Black music community. Does the choice of guitar/amp change a great player like Burrell's sound that much, or was it rather a change in 'conception or approach instead, kinda like what jsngry was saying earlier in the thread? Even the difference in 'era's' for instance, as Mark Stryker refers to, might have an effect on the way we perceive tone and performance? Kenny definitely changed from a more generic bop approach in his early LPs, to his own style by the time he led dates on Verve. The same way Phil Woods went from a Bird imitator to his own man on that Herbie Mann date in 1957. In fact you can hear both of them on KB's LP "A Generation Ago Today". Phil sounds like he's making fun of Kenny when they trade fours on "Stompin' At the Savoy". It could have been the superior recording facilities at Verve compared to the funkier sound of his Blue Note LPs, but his sound on that Night Song LP is clearer, rounder, fuller and warmer than any guitarist I've ever heard. We can probably thank Kenny (and Johnny Smith) for making the D'Angelico New Yorker sell for $40,000, and the pickup he used, the DeArmond 1100 Super Chief, $1,000. Glad to hear another Night Song fan. I have the original Verve White label pressing of this. It sounds even better on vinyl. In fact did this session ever get a CD release? I originally had it on a cheap 'Record Club' type record that I had for years. When I returned to buying vinyl in the 'ebay' age, I had to research the original sessions on the web to find out how and where the tracks first appeared. As soon as I got the discographical info that it was originally released as 'Night Song', I tracked down the Verve vinyl. You can do that with the great 1960's Verve albums because Collectors haven't bumped the prices up, and you can often find mint sounding records as well. Here's one (among many) that's older, but actually got off the ground a bit more: Can we still get to the one where Moms hates on Kenny, or has that been disappeared like a south american dissadent? It's here. He/She ;) "lives on", but only because people quoted him/her. ;) I remember that thread very clearly Moms/Clem comes out fighting, jsngrey then presents the case for the defence. Can we have a rematch? sngrey v mom in a battle for Kenny's reputation

How did he hold her against her will? Lock her in his dressing room? Tie her up? Was Miles a stalker as well as a hitter? this woman was a friend of his for many years. this happened in his apartment after she received an emergency call from him. i don't remember what the "emergency" was except that he was asking for her help. of course, as it turned out he was fueled with cocaine. Oh dear.

I just want my copy of Low Life back. Bought at time of release and lent to a grubby Baritone player the next week, who proceeded to decamp to Amsterdam. Never got to hear the Lp. Was that a good record

wasn't it just that hair preferred to stay under the skin to hear less of their weird music?

Fusion musicians never wore facial hair. They were very disciplined.

The Metheny track is brilliant. Very much his own man. Maybe Jim Hall on steroids. Must get that Cd. Early Burrell I forget to listen to enough, although the live Dorham is a favourite. The vangelder original vinyl must be worth a fortune nowadays. And Farlow 'must' have been the big influence on McLaughlin.

I guess it depends how you count generations, Sam Lay and Jerome Arnold were, I believe, just 7 & 6 years older than Butterfield... Well, it's good to be proved wrong! Here's an excellent interview with Sam Lay http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/sam-lay-profile-of-a-blues-drumming-legend/P2/

I like this quote better... "- much more melodic than I remembered".

Great pick. I forget how long it is, but he really makes a beautiful transition from inside to outside playing on that. I remember playing that track for a few people at random back in the day, just somebody would be hanging out, not "jazz people" or anything, just folks, and not everybody would dig it. But some of the ones that did would get up and start hollering and screaming the deeper into it that Trane & Elvin got, I mean, involuntary reactions and shit, like in church or something. My first reaction was not quite so outwardly demonstrative, but yeah, I was gripped, to put it mildly. Still am. Ultimately, that's the kind of music I like best, the kind where "liking" it or not is not an option you have. It just takes you over. BAM. Figure it out later, if ever. Hell yeah. When I read your post I was reminded of catching Coltrane's quartet at Shelly's Manne-Hole in L.A. around 1965. People got so lost in the music that they were emitting primal screams and shouts. Those small cocktail tables were being knocked over, glasses were breaking, it was pandemonium. It was like a vortex in the room. I have never experienced anything like that, before or since. When I walked out after the set, a buddy of mine was waiting in line to go in for the next set. He asked me, "what the hell was going on in there?" I could only say, "you'll find out". Amazing. And from a 'West Coast' crowd too I don't think we'll see music of the mind and the heart like that anymore. What an experience to have heard that music in it's own time, unfolding before you!

Why? Finish the story, Chuck... Yes please extend yourself And maybe even tell us about the 'second' or 'third' time you met Miles Davis. I thought if Miles offered to break your arm it meant he kinda liked you. Did he get any friendlier? How did he hold her against her will? Lock her in his dressing room? Tie her up? Was Miles a stalker as well as a hitter? Was Miles always cool in Europe? Or was it just in the States he was a bit of a bastard? I agree. But you've gotta watch out for those Woman who beat men as well Anyway, here is Juliette Greco 'celebrating' their love http://www.guardian....006/may/25/jazz

I had a barber shop shave a few years ago, after a weekend newspaper article on 'the dying art of the men's barber shop shave' put it into my mind. I think barbers are reluctant to offer it now. It's very much a boutique service over here. I should find a barber in the city and do it more often, as it felt good I hate shaving but prefer not to have a beard. And am too old to go with the old fashioned whiskers look that the 'hip' generation are currently brandishing. Blame this bloke.

I think it would have been a miracle for Burrell to have emerged at that time with that tone (and lines), and not been from a Black music community. Does the choice of guitar/amp change a great player like Burrell's sound that much, or was it rather a change in 'conception or approach instead, kinda like what jsngry was saying earlier in the thread? Even the difference in 'era's' for instance, as Mark Stryker refers to, might have an effect on the way we perceive tone and performance?

Richard Wyands and Kenny Burrell just epitomise 'Lounge' in a great way. That was a super complementary team.

It's a crying shame we don't have any early film of Kenny (and Grant or even Benson) from the Sixties, like we do of Wes.

The older Kenny Burrell thread (from 2012) seems to have been deleted. I have no idea why. See. This is what I'm sayin. No love for Kenny

So..... i really like the early 70's electric piano vibe of the Round Midnight album. Also the Verve Night Song album. This is of course in addition to the more well known albums. I remember buying the Generations album when it first came out, but couldn't get with the three guitar format, even though I get into Bobby Broom and Rodney Jones. i'd like to hear that one again, all these years later.

I can't get to the link?

Link a Kenny Burrell tune or two if you feel like it. It would be good to listen to and compare. I was just listening to Mule a few minutes ago, but that one is a slow burner. Kenny Burrell doesn't seem to get enough love as he should. I wonder if Tal Farlow and Kenny Burrell knew each other in those early days. The Red Norvo recordings are from 1949 and Kenny Burrell started recording with Dizzy Gillespie in !951.

I always thought this one was Tal like. Maybe it's just the tempo. BTW this is a live version of Jimmy Smith's Ready n Able, Benson originally did on Cookbook. Not Godchild as the uploader says. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWoQb7YYLns

And also, in all these various White American Blues bands or conglomerations/projects, I can't think of any Black American players that were from the same younger generation (on record at least) that seemed to be there side by side during that era. I'm aware of Phillip Wilson, but it seems very different to the cross-cultural bands and affiliations that occurred on the Jazz side of the street.

I knew all this guitar talk would bring you back out of the woodwork. Do you think Benson's lines owe something considerable to Farlow?

Actually I do adore the playing of Tal Farlow. Though there is a bit of a maverick approach to 'some' of his concept, that can seem very dazzling or musically verbose rather than subtle - something Vernon Reid refers to in a contemporary idiom as, 'because we can' music. However, the dominant influence of the virtuosic Piano players of Bop, gives this a more grounded context perhaps. One thing I am reminded of when I listen to Farlow, is how the Jazz repertoire was so very much the Pop music of its - and Farlow's generation's - day. I think you can actually hear that they 'knew' these songs and melodies before they learned to play them. So different to approaching them from todays perspective, where we learn them as a form of orthodoxy and 'learning'. They still become second nature to us, but hearing Farlow play them is to hear them played as 'first nature'. The tunes just seem to flow out of his big hands like mother's milk. I also hear a 'lot' of Farlow in Benson's lines, especially on Rhythm Changes burners and Standards. More so than Joe Pass, who could display a similar fluidity. Yes Benson is 'Pentatonic (major)' but they merge in Mixolydian heaven. Also I think Benson plays out of chord shapes a lot more than is generally perceived, and this brings his lines even closer to Farlow. I had heard people talk of the 'timing' issues. Emily Remler (I think), used to talk about this. But I did not know where they were originating their criticisms from. Also when you mention Farlow 'transferring' Bud Powell to guitar, do we know if Farlow ever spoke directly about this. Was it an actual 'purposeful' thing for Farlow, or rather a parallel or 'zeitgeist' kind of thing. I know I have heard him talk of Charlie Christian being his primary inspiration (as Jim Hall and to a lesser degree Kessel and Herb Ellis also say), but can't remember him speaking directly of Powell or even Tatum, though he probably did in some context.

there's no shame in saluting late 60's early 70's Johnny Winter It was the way you saluted him (for me, at least). I'll just leave it at that, as I think it's time for this discussion to go away. Well let me unpack my post... Johnny Winter. White Bluesman. The young Johnny Winter is chaperoned into a Black club (total African American social situation) to see and meet BB King. BB King graciously greets the young Johnny Winter and lets him sit in and play the Blues (total African American musical situation). Not dissimilar to the experiences of the slightly older Bloomfield, Mandel etc al. going into Black clubs ( more total African American social and music situations), to see and meet Muddy Waters etc. al., ......so the emergence of a nascent White American response to Black American Electric Blues. Johnny Winter plays it loud and mean. Johnny Winter learns the Blues language, and then plays it with a psychedelic/hard rock sound combined with a performative sense of danger and intensity that gets across to a White audience beginning to favour long improvised Blues Rock improvisation. Faster. Johnny Winter had incredible technical facility early on. He played fast and clean lines. Tougher. There was a genuine sense of hard edge or threat to Winter's music that seemed real enough. Perhaps a Texan thing. Canned Heat (with Al Wilson and Bob Hite) had a gentler Country Blues vibe. More authentic, and 'Heavy", than any Englishmen. Perhaps, because the English Blues players learnt the music from records, and didn't experience the corporeality of the music, or share in the wider American cultural dispersion, I've become less taken by British Blues-Rock, than by late 60's 70's American Blues-Rock. Maybe this is why I always preferred Coryell's musical legacy to McLaughlin. Coryell always seemed to have an American (and Black American) sound in his hands, brilliant and sometimes shambolic (and still brilliant), whereas McLaughlin seemed to always have (or be trying to convey) a sense of Platonic purity in his work, that seemed incredibly British/European. And insufferably pretentious at the same time. it even carried over into those awful synth guitar albums he made. Although in balance , I have seen his This Is How I Do It dvd, and he does seem to have a cheeky twinkle in his eye, and the way he tells the story of going to see the 'Hendrix at Monterey' movie with Miles is hilarious. The real man's Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Someone I've heard about for years, but never listened too until the last few years. Look forward to hearing this. http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/01/shuggie-otis-details-inspiration-informationwings-of-love-double-album-announces-tour/