Guy Berger

MONEY IN THE POCKET *was* actually recorded live at The Club in March 1966. (The album wasn't released until 2005, though excerpts were released as singles in 1966.) I've never seen it spelled out, but I wonder if the initial plan was to release a live album recorded at The Club, then for whatever reason Cannonball/Capitol decided against releasing that recording and went into the studio to record Mercy Mercy Mercy as "faux-live-at-The-Club" . For those who haven't heard it, BTW, Money in the Pocket - imho one of the best Cannonball live recordings.

We mandate vaccination in lots of contexts, in most countries. George Washington mandated variolation against smallpox for soldiers in the US continental army! This idea that it's somehow liberty-destroying to require vaccines is kooky and ahistorical. It's comparable to requiring people not to drive when they are inebriated with alcohol. This is in fact the middle ground - vaccine requirements (with some allowance for immunity via prior infection), and relatively light restrictions otherwise (I'd put indoor masks during periods of high transmission, and requiring contagious people to isolate, in the same bucket). I'm mostly in Steve's camp here. Per infection, COVID is less dangerous to kids than a lot of other things that we take for granted in our day to day lives. A case of RSV (for very young kids) or the flu is more dangerous. That said... when transmission is extremely high in an area, that can move the meter in terms of the number of bad outcomes for kids. If COVID is half as dangerous as RSV for kids but three times as many kids contract it...

This version of “Sack o Woe” is better than the one from the Lighthouse.

IMHO Lloyd's "complex" reputation with the jazz community would be much more positive if his 1960s recorded legacy had been limited to the Cannonball & Chico albums, the two Columbia albums, and Dream Weaver.

I share your love for those albums. My fave of the bunch is probably IN EUROPE, followed by NIPPON SOUL.

this is an excellent album. i'm glad I have it on cd - it's not available on spotify.

I'd have to see the actual data for record sales to be sure (I am not sure how accurate Keepnews is about timing), but my gut is it was driven by the economy. The Iran crisis led to a big spike in oil prices in April; the unemployment rate started rising in the summer; and the economy tipped into a short but severe recession in early 1980.

It's expensive here in the US, but frequent rapid testing is an underrated risk minimization tactic that can make indoor family/friend gatherings much safer. If you can afford it, consider it! Also, I know it is not practical in large parts of the country during the winter, but meeting outdoors (even if briefly) is far safer than indoors. IMHO seeing family and friends is really important; we have many ways to reduce the risk to nearly nil, we should encourage people "do this with appropriate precautions" rather than "don't do this".

Yup. File this debate in a dusty archive next to "the Wynton Wars" Laughing so hard right now... contender for post of the year

I would not ignore the impact of high quality immunity (3 shots or hybrid) in reducing transmission, even if imperfect. But you're right about the general assessment: whether due to "inherent" transmissibility or immune evasion, it's likely to infect a lot more people than prior variants in the same circumstances. Thinking a little further ahead: an estimate from Trevor Bedford (a well regarded virologist or immunologist - don't remember which) was that once we reach endemicity, we'd have something like 40K-100K COVID deaths every year in the US. The bright side is that's a lot less than 2020 or 2021, and hopefully we can get there relatively quickly. The bad news is: it's equivalent to ranging from "moderate flu year" to "very bad flu year", on top of the actual flu of course (which kills an average of 36K Americans every year). We're not going to zero or anything close to it.

"Immunity hardly seems to exist for Omicron" isn't correct, respectfully. Link There's evidence that for *infection* (that is detectable by some sort of diagnostic, regardless of severity of symptoms), prior infection without vaccination or a "basic full vaccination" (1 dose of J&J or 2 doses of AZ/Moderna/Pfizer) provide weak or very weak protection against Omicron, though not necessarily zero. However, there's also evidence that efficacy after 3 doses or hybrid immunity (prior infection + 2 doses) is much higher. Additionally, it's important to remember that efficacy against infection is not the same as efficacy against serious illness - and it is likely that the latter is much higher. (This is why the mildness of Omicron might simply turn out to be a mismeasurement illusion...)

IMHO you should do it, if the doctor is willing. The 6 month gap is probably too long; experts are discussing 4.5 - 5 months as better. It's hard to tell how much of the apparent Omicron mildness is due to: 1) Genuine underlying mildness of the variant 2) Greater mildness due to much higher prevalence of immunity (whether due to vaccination, prior infection or both) 3) "Greater mildness" because more immune people become mildly symptomatic rather than asymptomatic or non-infected 1 is good news for everyone. 2 is relatively good news for people who have immunity, but bad news for unvaccinated people who haven't had COVID yet. (Though it probably varies among previously infected, 2-shot vaccinated and 3-shot vaccinated; also, kids are overrepresented in this group and they experience lower COVID severity on average.) 3 is bad news.

I agree that Evans recorded too much with a piano trio and would have benefited from partnerships with other soloists, but it should have been someone meatier/grittier than Cannonball. No need to add sugar on top of cotton candy. Jackie McLean, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Yusuf Lateef… some great possibilities out there that never happened

I don’t think Cannonball and Evans were a great combo. Too much light sweetness

0. But we’ve now had 2 Kenny G threads on this board in one month! People here loooove Kenny G content, he should collect royalties

The “challenge to snobs” is… not crazy

Stan Kenton!

Cannonball was not as influential as Sonny as a player, but more influential than Sonny as a bandleader

I think this is somewhat overdone. The S&P 500 is down something like 3-4% since Thursday. That's a small decline, not a bloodbath. It's still not clear how serious this new variant will be - to vaccinated & boosted people, to vaccinated but unboosted people, to unvaccinated previously-infected people, or to unvaccinated and previously-uninfected people. It's also not clear how contagious it will be compared to prior variants, or whether there's a differential impact on infection efficacy vs serious illness prevention efficacy. Within two weeks we'll have a better idea. I think everyone should be aware of it - and get vaccinated (most importantly) and boosted (if they are already vaccinated and 4-6 months past the 2nd dose) - but I don't think panic is warranted, at least not yet.

I'm aligned w/you and JSngry here. I'd describe a lot of the early Cannonball as musical dessert or "ear candy" - it's wonderful, sweet playing, but not necessarily with a lot of depth. The best stuff comes out when he's contrasted against, and matched, with deeper players - Miles, Coltrane, Yusef Lateef. Starting around 1962-63 that depth starts showing up in Cannonball's own playing as well - more of a tasty well-rounded meal with sweet parts rather than just dessert. The music he was making in the late 60s was genuinely visionary, and compares favorably to that made by his "peers" making populist/adventurous music around the same time (Charles Lloyd, Herbie Mann, John Handy). Miles picked up the baton in 1968-9 and took it to the next level.

What do people think of the two 1968 live discs of Joe with the Wynton Kelly trio that Verve issued in the 90s? I’ve spent a lot of time with Straight No Chaser recently and it’s enjoyable but also underwhelming given the names on it. Basically great musicians on a ho hum night - very different from Joe Henderson in Japan.

Funny you mention those 3 - I was thinking of Lake in relation to them. Threadgill and Hemphill are visionary composers/conceptualists, Blythe was much more of a "pure player" (Chuck once compared him to Lou Donaldson and not entirely unfairly). I think of Lake somewhere in between on that spectrum. Stuff I've enjoyed w/Lake - the Black Saint albums, the early WSQ albums, the Trio 3 albums I've heard. He's also great on Dennis Gonzalez's Idle Wild. I haven't heard any of the Gramavision albums!!!

I've personally found the live Crusaders albums from the 1960s fun, and higher-energy than the studio albums. Not essential but enjoyable, high-quality "jazz for the people".

Put me in the bucket of people who think that Coltrane would have to some extent followed trends in jazz that occurred after his death, as he did before his death. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have also influenced those same trends.

I realized we don’t have a thread for this guy, who is still active and making creative music. He’s recorded a lot of music and even though I’ve heard about a dozen albums with him I’ve barely scratched the surface.