Big Beat Steve

My deepest sympathy, BeBop. Words are said easily and it may sound shallow if I say I can imagine how you feel - but I really can. My mother died of breast cancer at 49 (when I was 12) and my younger brother died of leukemia at 20. So you see ... way too early too ... Hope you will find the strength wherever you look for it (including in your favorite music). Do take care!

Me too. Keeping my fingers crossed as well.

... and what you are ABLE to do with it after you make it. (e.g. Michael Brecker who has been named twice here)

Thanks for the hint, MG. Did so too and hope it wil ship as soon as they promise there. This is amazing. I checked this item at amazon.de last weeke and they had it for preorder as it was supposed to be released here on 18 november. And now it already is "currently unavailable" and we haven't even reached 18 Nov.

I am no great expert on jazz of this style and period but it is always commendable to see these discographical details are followed up and sorted out. This is bound to come in handy somewhere sometime ... So ... keep up the diligent work!

Still keeping my fingers crossed that my books will arrive soon. So once my books have arrived I'd be very interested in the follow-ups of The Really The Blues CD set that were never issued at the time (all beyond CD No. 9 if i got this right).

Yes, the Dexter Gordon Dootone is very nice, particularly since his recorded legacy around that time is extremely slim so any aural evidence is welcome. I cannot speak for the Boplicity CD reissue of the Buddy Collette LP (I have a reissue on vinyl) but musically speaking I find it quite enjoyable. It's not something you would want if you were all set on earth-shaking trailblazers but for straight-ahead jazz of those times it is well done. Though I must hasten to admit that my own perception of those items is a bit colored by my personal approach to this entire subject: "What, JAZZ on Dootone, that R&B and doo-wop label? What would THEY have been doing there?" A bit like with the Sonny Criss LP on Peacock, for example. Curiosity in this way of listening might mellow my judgment a little compared to that of others who might compare details to output on this or that other (strictly jazz) label. Er ... how many more smilies would one have to insert to make it clear that is is not a matter of criticising but just of poking a little fun? (Besides, it WOULD have been possible to get it right ..,

@King ubu: See how this thread gets derailed due to this ongoing ambiguity in the title? One might almost be inclined to think this to and fro with the thread title renaming is a case of "I as an eminent thread title changer cannot be made to act as a serf of simple forumists and change the thread title like he/they want(s) it but I am going to change it MY way!" My my ... Ah, if it only had been a Blue Note reissue. Then it would OF COURSE have been fully in order to narrow down the specifics of a thread title (and content) to whether SACDs are actually improved by XSACDs or XYZSACDs or if a 25-bit remaster is better than 24 or 23-bit remasters or whatever .... But lowly Dootone/Crown/Boplicity? Ah, lump it all together ... Looks like it will therefore be hard to keep focusing on Boplicity ... Anyway ... @Greg M.: P-Vine was really FINE in the vinyl days when they ran reissues of R&B 78rpm-era releases that had not seen the light of reissue days anywhere before but now ... ? I've read rather lukewarm reviews of P-Vine CD reissues in print here and there in recent years but cannot vouch for sucjh judgment first-hand. They are hard to get hold of and those P-Vine CDs that I have seen in more recent times somehow did not seem that unique in what they covered, so ... @crisp: Tongue in cheek undertone of your post duly noted but in a pinch there would always be room for a spearate thread covering additional source labels, wouldn't it? (See my above swipe at how specific BN threads can get, for example ...)

You mean this is some kind of "French" or "Franglais" and his name is not pronounced like it is written, i.e. like in "Teach-in"?

Arggghhhh .... Are we discussing original Dootone and Crown releases here? Please, mods, now that you did change the title of this thread, why not change it the way I suggested? Dootone and Crown reissues on Boplicity THIS is what it's all about, isn't it, after all? So why be ambiguous?

Would be a bit of a pity since the actual topic WAS Dootone - a label not discussed too often overall (whereas Crown has been discussed elsewhere too). Or he would have to rename it "Dootone and Crown JAZZ reissues on Boplicity" make it bulletproof.

That's right. They have the Modern/RPM files (which is what Crown - the budget spinoff of Modern/RPM - ultimately is). My question/doubt above concerned the situation of the Chet Baker/Chico Hamilton releases that clearly were not RECORDED by Modern/RPM/Crown. Hamilton's CLP5310, for example, is a combination of 1956 recordings first released on Pacific Jazz PJ1220 and World Pacific WP1231. So came these masters to be owned or LEASED by Crown?

(Although I admit I didn't know about this Dootone thread when I posted it.) And you did throw Dootone and Crown together too.

So if Boplicity had packed their CDs the usual ACE way the TWO Hawkins LPs would indeed have made up a nice reissue CD (as stated earlier). One LP only on one CD only is a bit skimpy. Unless the actual CD reissue includes alternates, etc.

What I meant was something else, King Ubu: The Dootone reissues by Ace of course are legit, though this is a pointless aspect since they were made in a time frame that is and remains P.D. in Europe - what counts, though, is that Ace has the Dootone files, it seems, and therefore is more likely to come up with alternates, acetates. etc. Which might make for potentially interesting reissues. But I cannot see any link between Dootone and the last three items linked and shown above (Hawk, Baker, Hamilton). Except that they are also reissued on Boplicity. I am not sure if the Hawkins LPs actually were ORIGINALLY recorded for Crown (i.e. Modern/RPM) but apparently (from what has been said above) the Baker/Hamilton items are rehashes of material originally recorded for Pacific Jazz. No idea how Crown came by them back then (but if you go by some of the semi-anonymous V.A. Crown samplers released it was no isolated incident) but at any rate they seem to have been part of a "budget line" marketing plot of REissuing items that had already been release elsewhere before. Nice to have as an oddity from those times if you can grab an orignal LP but IMO at bit pointless as a reissue of the actual album right now, given that those tracks ought to be around elsewhere in their Pacific Jazz packagings. Now could Crown possibly have had the first-generation masters for those Baker/Hamilton recordings in their vaults at all? Did PJ relinquish ownership of those masters to Crown? I wonder if Ace are doing themselves a real service by going that route because IMO it detracts a bit from their usually thoughtfully produced (and fully packed) CD reissues from their Modern/RPM vaults. Could it be that Ace haven't quite come to grips yet as to how to best repackage original LP releases for reissue instead of 78s?

Look out, everybody .. if you move seamlessly from Dootone into the Crown label without any distinction between whether the said Crown releases actually were genuine Modern/RPM recordings or maybe recordings from other labels that somewhow had ended up with Crown for "second time around marketing" in the form of reissues for the budget market or whatever, then the implications of where the masters (possibly available for reissue) may be and what is available where else and from which primary source may change drastically ...

A quote given in another currently ongoing topic here sums it up nicely, IMHO: :g

Not wanting to derail THIS discussion, but in what sense do you expect to find yourself with a "can of worms" there? There are no worms there, just the WHITE counterpart of not-so-city-slickerish popular music to BLACK 1935-55 territoy band swing (at first) and city blues/R&B (later on). The only thing that could happen to you is that you might discover all sorts of crossbreding in BOTH directions in the black AND white U.S. popular music off the beaten tracks of MOR mainstream pre-rockn'roll pop churned out by the majors in those two decades. If you want to go into it and explore the (approx.) 1935-55 era with an eye on quality and diversity, you cannot go wrong with the Krazy Kat CDs. Each and every one of them is good (OK, some may lean a bit more towards early 50s Honky Tonk country music but the boundaries are not rigily fixed anyway, just like they weren't all the time between black jazz and R&B). ;) Anyway ... in THIS discussion the Krazy Kat records that tomatamot alluded to probably are the vinyl reissues from the 80s. Here is a listing that should have most of the LPs http://www.wirz.de/music/krazyfrm.htm

Lots of vinyl reissued (or alternate tracks sometimes issued for the frst time) in the 80, manly from the Gotham label. These days (CD reissues) Krazy Kat is mainly focusing on Western swing (EXCELLENT stuff!) but has been dormant for a while: http://www.interstate-music.co.uk/index.html

Yes, Buddy Johnson is great. His EmArcy Recordings from the 50s (which is what BF apparently has collated) are quite nice too but tend to be a bit formulaic IMO (I have the Official 80s reissues of those 6 or 7 EmArcy LPs they did at the time) and need to be taken in somewhat smaller doses, i.e. less than one LP at a time. Those EmArcy LPs IMO were among those that did not really do the then "new" concept of 12-inchers a great service. Too much of a "something for everybody" programming. I feel the somewhat earlier Decca sides were better. If you want to go for 50s "powerhouse sax" LPs on EmArcy, go for Red Prysock! Nice thread, BTW. Missed it the first time around, apparently, even its brief return in 2007. And this thread ought to be read in conjunction NOW, I think:

Just to add to the picture: Check out these too: George Wallington Al Haig Claude Williamson Dodo Marmarosa

What does "re-ify" (or "reify"?) mean, please? No matter what Whyton may have to say, this review is off-putting just because of the apparent writing style of the book, and if what the reviewer says about the STYLE of this book is only correct by 50%, then ... oh well ... Why cannot these "academics" relax a little sometimes and stop their academic navel-gazing for a moment to see when their subject on hand calls for an at least SLIGHTLY more "down to earth" treatment if they care about reaching their target audience AT ALL? After all you can be scholarly and still be comprehensible. Or is a PH.D. required to listen to "A love Supreme"? (No, I have no idea who WIll Layman is and with what grains of salt his reviews may have to be taken, but I have come across this problem of academics going overboard in academic blurb when dealing with jazz before (though apprently nowhere near as badly as here) and I DID obtain a University degree too - in a field not a zillion miles away from (academic) writing so normally "ought" to get to grips with a fair dose of scholarliness)

Ted Gioia's book is terrific Tom. It's the best jazz book I've come across. Gordon's book is much more in-depth IMO, Gioia's book needs to be expanded in the next edition. For me it was the 1993 CD boxset: Chet Baker, The Pacific Jazz Years. That really turned me onto the West Coast sound, although back then, it was more difficult to research musicians. Disagreed to some extent. I've read both, and while Gordon's book has a more detailed analysis of specific LPs/recordings and a more comprehensive guide to "suggested listening", Gioia's book IMHO manages better to transmit the background, context and feeling of that time and place in the context of the music so Gioia "fleshes out" the musical setting a bit more beyond the way it is experienced strictly through recordings and discographical listings. So both have their strengths and complement each other, but when I want to read up on the context of WCJ as a sort of background to listening to the music, I find I reach for Gioia's book far more often. Particularly since if I am after comments on specific recordings I check Alain Tercinet's book which covers even MORE WCJ recordings (not always quite as detailed but it does cover more ground).

A belated THANK YOU to King Ubu for highlighting this CD series. I've put half a dozen from that series in my amazon (seller) shopping cart right away last night ...

Just to round off the picture: There is another glimpse at his jazz (trumpet/trompinette) playing in this book: Boris Vian - Jazz à Saint-German by Frank Ténot (published by Editions du Layeur in 1999): http://www.amazon.fr/Boris-Vian-jazz-%C3%A0-Saint-Germain/dp/2911468317/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382726546&sr=8-1&keywords=Boris+Vian+Jazz+%C3%A0+St.+Germain It looks like it is OOP but who knows ... secondhand examples may be around. Apart from dwelling on Vian's involvement with early postwar jazz in Paris, it includes a 15-track CD with (privately recorded) jazz by Vian and the Claude Abadie Orchestra (rec. in 1946) and with a group of his own (rec. in 1944 and 1947) that includes Claude Luter, the Fol brothers, Jef Gilson (to name just the better known ones) in the two lineups. A very particular mixture of "Trad jazz" and more modern sounds with a special twist that you have to hear to grasp.