clifford_thornton

Yeah, didn't Ecstatic Peace put out those books in silkscreened editions of 99? I think they came with a 7-inch or something...

Yeah, I have the America pressing and it sounds great. I assume this was the same case with Coursil's Black Suite?

Re: Wheeler: for whatever reason, I've never "gotten" him, though he does lend an interesting approach to some of these sides.

For me, Stevens' drumming here is like a sonically more "isolated" (read: less Africanized, to my ears) version of some of Milford's stuff from the period. Sure, there have been heavier SME and related sides (Prayer for Peace, on Transatlantic, is super-hip), but for a second commercially-released LP, this is a strong statement. Maybe even stronger than the Baptised Traveller (though that too is an excellent record, on-sleeve influences as they are).

May I say that I really like that record, too?

Wrote up my own little pissing contest as per E's request. Anybody care?

It cracks me up - maybe that's one reason why it's so expensive, the comedy factor!

I think you've taken this to a whole new level, man. Clem too, but jeez, it's definitely Bags-level shit. Where's Derek Taylor when you need him?

White boys can't swing? Is THAT what you're saying? Fuck that. Even AMMMusic (EUK-265, beeyotch) swings!

Other than the typo, I agree with you (Rod). I try to refer to avant-garde jazz within a specific time frame, though admittedly did reference some young players whom I feel are doing some interesting and (maybe-nearly- ) vanguard things, earlier in this thread. I can't speak for through-composed music or aleatory music as I know very little about the fields; ditto AMM/MEV/Gruppo/etc. (some of whose work I really, really like a LOT but stake no claim to it)

The Bagatellen site is down - that says a lot!

Thread police - where are the thread police?

PSF = Psychedelic Speed Freaks. High Rise!!!

Ersatz Abbey (Inc.) mentioned Tetuzi Akiyama. I'm not really all that interested in any of his uber-quiet shit (though the folk-blues improv oddities are nice). HOWEVER, his "electric boogie guitar" shit is unreal. If there'r followers, then maybe even "advance gourd." Basically taking blues-rock riffage and setting up subtle phase shifts, turning them into profound statements of minimal music/process music while also going through the mechanics of playing riff-rock electric guitar. Not that the music is "mechanical" (very soulful in fact), but it seems like he's taking a souped-up GTO out for a test drive on an open highway. "Fast Machine" is all I gotta say... well worth checking out. Edit: 2 hrs. sleep, hope this makes sense.

Agreed. I never said Doyle was Coltrane or Booker Ervin... sheesh!

Dude... there was a "FWIW" in there, in advance of your reply and familiarity with "the circuit."

Clem: Thank you for the poem.

This better fucking not turn into a Bagatellen thread...

Never said he wasn't - technically astounding, swinging, and could get downright feral but it all made sense. Doyle, well, I'm obviously not an expert on how to play a reed instrument (couldn't do shit with a clarinet), but was at least under the impression that it took something to do what Doyle did. Also, I'm certainly not of the mind that he can "put it together" as well as he did when with Howard, Dixon et al. in the '60s and '70s, for what it's worth. I hear what makes the detractors detract, and what makes the apologists apologize. So where does that leave me? The rest of it, I'm not gonna argue with. Furthermore, Doyle did play in R&B bands before hitting up the free scene (not that that's particularly surprising). Doubt he was "imposing" himself on anything. Again - FWIW. As for lists, well, I can think of ten or more WAAAY obscure titles, some of which I have and some of which I would looooove to have: The Seikatsu Kojyo Iinkai Orchestra on Des-Chonboo? The Frippe Nordstrom/Don Cherry Duo on Bird Notes? The Tusques-Wilen on Moloudji? I could go on with things that make me lose sleep at night!

I'm not gonna argue Doyle's merits with a heel-digging Texas tenor player. No way...

Very good. The poetry is only on one track. I think the poem is heavy. Why don't people like poems?

Funny to think you've got something from the Thurston List, no?

I wasn't that impressed with Ashton (well, more indifferent), but haven't read enough to call it either way... I think Michael Fried is also excellent, though the best writer on modernism as a living - albeit somewhat historicized - process, is Richard Shiff. He's current. Ditto James Meyer (though not all his ideas are that original, he expresses them well. Craft.) and my former mentor David Raskin. Gregory Battcock was also pretty hip, back in "the day." We're talking '60s/'70s minimal art here, where I think some of the best critics had to cut their teeth on some very difficult artwork. Lucy Lippard was/is another excellent writer coming out of that scene. Early Ros Krauss, though often misguided, is still very good. I got away from her, though, as October seems like too much copping the philosophical feel with not enough payback. My art history bag was intense a few years ago; in school for something else now that has taken some time away from seeing.

Overblowing at that level of intensity takes a lot of power, and false fingering isn't just missteps. He can play, his language just is wholly different from a lot of other post-Trane/post-Ayler players. Late, PM me on the Colbeck. I can burn you a copy. It's probably one of the greatest free-bop records ever waxed.