What vinyl are you spinning right now??

[Pim]

 

[mjazzg]

1 hour ago, Pim said:

🥰😍❤️ But there aren't enough emoji's to describe what I feel playing that record. What a band and what a record

👍

[kh1958]

Eric Dolphy, Far Cry (Prestige)

Shirley Scott, Satin Doll (Prestige)

[jazzcorner]

3 hours ago, Pim said:

 

👍

 

[optatio]

7 minutes ago, kh1958 said:

Eric Dolphy, Far Cry (Prestige)

👍

[HutchFan]

9 hours ago, Pim said:

such a powerful live date this is. Clifford Jordan at his best. 

Agreed. Tremendous.  

 

4 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Max Roach - Chattahoochee Red [Columbia, 1981]

Picked up for the country price of a couple of pints of beer in a dusty country town shop yesterday. What a terrific listen

Yes! 

Isn't it odd that an album released on the giant Columbia label has been so consistently ignored? It seems like Chattahoochee Red has been overlooked even more than his albums released on small, indie jazz labels.

Maybe it's because Max's music is so darn POWERFUL. And perhaps his medicine is just too poweful for "general listeners" who aren't ready for it.  Because Max is never playing when he's playing.  He's never messing around.  His intentions are always serious, always lofty, always large.

 

[JSngry]

47 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

Isn't it odd that an album released on the giant Columbia label has been so consistently ignored? It seems like Chattahoochee Red has been overlooked even more than his albums released on small, indie jazz labels.

Maybe it's because Max's music is so darn POWERFUL. And perhaps his medicine is just too poweful for "general listeners" who aren't ready for it.  Because Max is never playing when he's playing.  He's never messing around.  His intentions are always serious, always lofty, always large.

 

What it really is is that Columbia only leased the session from Max. That was part of the deal he made with Bruce Lundvall, that Max would own his masters and only lease them to Columbia. So there's nothing they can do if the estate won't deal.

Now, have they made overtures to the estate? That I don't know. But even if they had, it's not Columbia's fault that this record has not been reissued.

I'm no fan of Columbia, but facts is facts.

[optatio]

[HutchFan]

20 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I'm no fan of Columbia, but facts is facts.

O.K. Fair enough. 

[JSngry]

More than fair "enough", it's true. A simple business reality.

The only counter is an equal truth having to deal with Columbia trying to secure rights to reissue and failing, or proof that whoever the decider(s) were at Columbia explicitly gave direction to never reissue this.

I could believe either,but there is no evidence (or even claims) to support either.

I certainly do believe that Max got blacklisted in certain circles along the way, but check his deals with Bruce Lundvall along the way, which went from Columbia to Elektra-Musician to Blue Note. Records were released and have any of them seen actual reissue?

A fair question might be what shape the Roach estate is in? Do they trust anybody? Is there just too much for one(?) person to handle?

It is indeed a great legacy that could be made even greater, but...business needs to occur on a mutually agreeable basis.

 

 

[Rabshakeh]

6 hours ago, mjazzg said:

Like what? Always intrigued when 'obscure' scenes have a light shine on them

These are some which I enjoy: 

Fernando Gelbard - Didi

Horacio Chivo Borraro - El Nuevo Sonido del Chivo Borraro

Jorge Lopez Ruiz - Bronca Buenos Aire

Jorge Lopez Ruiz - Viejas Raices

Matias Pizarro - Pelo de Rata

Quinteplus (Carlos Pocho Lapouble and Gustavo Bergalli) - Quinteplus

[HutchFan]

18 minutes ago, JSngry said:

More than fair "enough", it's true. A simple business reality.

Good grief, Jim.  What do you want?  "You're right. I'm wrong. I submit to your greater knowledge & authority."  Is that sufficient?

Next time I won't wish than an excellent Max LP was more well known.

Jeez.

[JSngry]

No, I just want a recognition of known facts, not unfounded speculation.

And not just here, but in life at large. 

This is bigger than you, bigger than me, and bigger than Max. 

[Rabshakeh]

8 hours ago, mjazzg said:

 Max Roach - Chattahoochee Red [Columbia, 1981]

Picked up for the country price of a couple of pints of beer in a dusty country town shop yesterday. What a terrific listen

Well done. No better feeling.

[Gheorghe]

20 hours ago, Pim said:

such a powerful live date this is. Clifford Jordan at his best. 
 

Speaking about Clifford Jordan: I’ve ordered the new P-Vine/Groove Diggers release of In The World in December 2022. It was supposed to be released in march but got postponed to September. It’s almost October now and still no sign of it. Anyone else here with that in pre order?

What a wonderful record. I bought it in the 70´s, but it has another cover, a colour photo of Max. It is on the America Label, which published most of Mingus´ albums. Since this album also has Cliff Joran and Mal Waldron, who had played many times with Mingus, at that time I really associated it with Mingus´ music, and actually it has some of that message. 

I love it, it´s one of my favourite records and about the same time I saw Roach live, one of the best musical experiences I ever had. 

On 10/1/2023 at 12:24 AM, Brad said:

I wonderful little album ! 

[mjazzg]

11 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

These are some which I enjoy: 

Fernando Gelbard - Didi

Horacio Chivo Borraro - El Nuevo Sonido del Chivo Borraro

Jorge Lopez Ruiz - Bronca Buenos Aire

Jorge Lopez Ruiz - Viejas Raices

Matias Pizarro - Pelo de Rata

Quinteplus (Carlos Pocho Lapouble and Gustavo Bergalli) - Quinteplus

Great, thanks ever so much

[jazzcorner]

ARGO LP 623 [Japan 1983]  " Max" with  Max Roach / Hank Mobley / Kenny Dorham / George Morrow / Ramsey Lewis - rec. 1958

 

[clifford_thornton]

18 hours ago, JSngry said:

More than fair "enough", it's true. A simple business reality.

The only counter is an equal truth having to deal with Columbia trying to secure rights to reissue and failing, or proof that whoever the decider(s) were at Columbia explicitly gave direction to never reissue this.

I could believe either,but there is no evidence (or even claims) to support either.

I certainly do believe that Max got blacklisted in certain circles along the way, but check his deals with Bruce Lundvall along the way, which went from Columbia to Elektra-Musician to Blue Note. Records were released and have any of them seen actual reissue?

A fair question might be what shape the Roach estate is in? Do they trust anybody? Is there just too much for one(?) person to handle?

It is indeed a great legacy that could be made even greater, but...business needs to occur on a mutually agreeable basis.

 

 

Have these records been bootlegged? Bill Dixon leased the quartet with Shepp to Savoy, but it was reissued/booted numerous times over the years, starting with BYG in 1969. I'm sure Savoy/Lubinsky cared a lot less about following the contract than Columbia or Lundvall did.

[JSngry]

LFreedom Now has been bootlegged numerous times. 

Max's deal with Lundvall allowed Columbia allowed for a legitimate LP reissue.

Unless I'm forgetting something, that's been it for that one.

The ones with Harper...maybe the Horo was reissued but was that one legit? 

Otherwise, the small label stuff like Fluid have not been booted that I know of. The multiple Japanese labels, I don't know. 

[clifford_thornton]

Oh, I was just thinking about that particular Columbia deal. Sure, there are many reissues of varying legality of his output overall.

[JSngry]

IIRC, the Columbia deal resulted in:

• Live at the BeeHive (never a legit CD issue)
• a reissue of We Insist! (only even possible legit CD reissue has been on the latter-day Candid, and the legitimacy of that has been contested some).
• Chattahoochee Red Nope
• a M'Boom album (not sure if this was part of the deal or something else. This one has seen CD reissue for some reason.)

Then Lundvall went to Elektra-Musician gor a quick minute, which gave us

• Pure Genius Vol. 1 (never a legit CD issue, nor a Vol. 2)

And the, finally to Blue Note, where this was released:

• With The New Orchestra Of Boston And The So What Brass Quintet a one and done

Not a lot, all things considered, but it's all valuable. Gotta wonder how much has been left behind and what condition it's in.

I'm pretty sure that Maz's M.O. for all of his work post-Atlantic was to retain ownership of all the sessions, and then deal with each label on whatever terms worked for both parties. That might explain why the Soul Note stuff has been reissued and the Columbia hasn't. Or maybe not.

[clifford_thornton]

The Soul Note/Black Saint CAM reissues are a little confusing and I've heard that they aren't exactly adhering to the original contracts (or weren't at one point anyway). So whether the Roach estate has received anything from the boxed set is debatable.

my copy of We Insist! is a Japanese Victor LP from the 1970s. I don't know what the Victor license looked like but imagine it came from CBS, which owned Barnaby and the Cadence/Candid catalogs. 

[jazzcorner]

[Chuck Nessa]

For Von's birthday. Haven't played this in years.

[Rabshakeh]

29 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

For Von's birthday. Haven't played this in years.

I like the contrast. The first side is all expansive post bop workmanship. Then the second side starts with the Freemans kicking down the door and playing a song dedicated to Gene Ammons, that still manages to do more interesting things.