Before OJCs go away

[Brad]

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned the Webster Young cd "For Lady". This is apparently the only session he led and it's a pretty remarkable cd. There's top playing throughout with Webster Young and Paul Quinichette backing up each other admirably. The rhythm section is top notch Mal Waldron, Joe Puma, Earl May and Ed Thigpen. Webster plays both with and without mute. They do a rendition of Strange Fruit that is quite haunting with Ed Thigpen doing a drum roll to simulate an executioner. Webster Young is a very lyrical moving player and it's a pity he didn't record more.

This is a must pickup in my view.

Edited January 6, 2005 by Brad

[brownie]

Brad, about Webster Young, there were three vinyls under his name issued on VGM Records 'Wesbter Young Plays The Miles Davis Songbook', volumes 1, 2 and 3.

Have not played them for a long time. Sound was pretty bad. John Hicks and Jodie Christian were in the rhythm section on several tracks.

Don't think they were ever reissued.

The 'For Lady' album was much better!

[Brad]

I saw that those were part of his discography and you're correct that they haven't been reissued. It would be nice to listen to. I wonder why he didn't record more.

[catesta]

My Fantasy order arrived yesterday.

Only one problem. They sent me a Junior Mance cd (one I already have) instead of the Junior Cook. Must be having trouble keeping up with the volume in the shipping room.

Edited January 13, 2005 by catesta

[paul secor]

Previous order:

Mose Allison: Autumn Song

Walt Dickerson: This Is

Pete Franklin: Guitar Pete's Blues

Johnny Griffin Sextet

Brew Moore Quintet

Hal Singer: Blue Stompin'

Swan Silvertones: Heavenly Light

Bobby Timmons: Soul Time

Lem Winchester: With Feeling

Lester Young: Washington, D.C. Vol. 4

I've listened to all except the Pete Franklin. The Johnny Griffin is probably the standout and the Mose and Brew are very pleasant surprises - much better than I expected.

On order:

Mose Allison: Creek Bank

Gene Ammons: Up Tight!

Buck Clayton/Buddy Tate: Buck & Buddy

Claude Hopkins: Swing Time

Percy Mayfield: Memory Pain

Charles Mingus: Debut Rarities Vols. 1&2

Zoot Sims: Quartets

Elmer Snowden: Harlem Banjo!

Mercy Dee Walton: One Room Country Shack

It'd be something else if this thread generated enough interest in some of the less popular OJC titles to convince Concord to keep them in print. I doubt it, but who knows?

[mikeweil]

That statement from the news page at Fantasy doesn't sound so bad:

Concord Records, Inc. has announced (12/1) its acquisition of Fantasy; the two companies have been merged into a new entity called the Concord Music Group, Inc.

During the lengthy negotiations this summer and fall, longtime Fantasy president Ralph Kaffel has noted, "we got to know the principals and key employees of Concord quite well, which reaffirmed the correctness of our initial judgment that Concord is the proper home for our catalogs. Having spent fifty years in the record business, 33 of them at Fantasy building up the catalogs, my primary concern--as well as that of the other principals--was that the acquiring entity should have the proper understanding and respect for the treasure that we are turning over to them, and be willing to perpetuate the historical legacy these catalogs represent. With Norman Lear, Hal Gaba, Glen Barros, and all the other talented people now at the helm of the Concord Music Group, my colleagues and I are convinced the Fantasy catalog is in very good hands."

[Cornelius]

At the IAJE conference last week, Bob Blumenthal briefly interviewed Glenn Barros, president of Concord Records. Barros said that (as I am paraphrasing as best I can recall) there won't be any deletions from the Fantasy catalog but some titles might not be available in the usual form; Instead, these titles might be available "on demand" from Amazon. He didn't specify whether 'on-demand' means on-demand download or on-demand disc.

Later I spoke with someone from Fantasy. He hadn't heard of the on-demand plan, but he said that as far as he knows the plan is to continue the availability of all CDs, for the Fantasy catalog to be administered still in Berkeley by the same staff, and for the product to be warehoused where it is now. He said that he could not conceive of Fantasy damaging the catalog by deleting from it. And he said that even more warehouse space was recently acquired for both the existing Fantasy catalog and more product being developed.

Edited January 11, 2005 by Cornelius

[Guest akanalog]

yeah i would be more worried that they wont now put out some of the material that i want to hear from the 70s such as azar lawrences albums and jerry hahns albums than that they will be deleting the stuff that is out there right now. because there is a lot of great stuff still not out. not that fantasy previously had any interest in reissuing this stuff before they boarded the concord.

[Cornelius]

I'd love to see a list of all material owned by Fantasy not in the current catalog. I wonder how big a list it is. Also, it would be interesting to find out whether it has been Fantasy's objective eventually to issue everything (or virutally everything) it owns. I don't know why one would assume that that is not the goal.

[Chuck Nessa]

Let me state this as clearly as possible: After 40 years in this business, I do not believe what they say about keeping the catalog available. We may be offered "downloads" of current items but it ain't the same.

They might believe it but it ain't gonna happen. Saul Zaentz and his people (especially Ralph Kaffel) have done jazz fans a service for many years and it can not continue without Saul's money and Ralph's zeal.

Thanks to all a Fantasy.

Edited to add: If you have some favorite Concords, look at the current Concord catalog to see what these folks do.

Edited January 11, 2005 by Chuck Nessa

[Cornelius]

Is there anyone around here who knows Glenn Barros from Fantasy well enough to find out whether he meant on-demand download or on-demand disc?

Edited January 11, 2005 by Cornelius

[mgraham333]

And he said that even more warehouse space was recently acquired for both the existing Fantasy catalog and more product being developed.

I've got a room in my house that I am hardly using. I would gladly offer to store one of everything in the catalog at no charge.......

[montg]

Let me state this as clearly as possible: After 40 years in this business, I do not believe what they say about keeping the catalog available. We may be offered "downloads" of current items but it ain't the same

They may have the best of intentions in purchasing this catalog, but--it's a bidness acquisition and bidness is bidness.

Anyway, I remember reading a few years ago Glenn Barros ( I believe) talking after Carl Jefferson's death about Concord's intentions to preserve Jefferson's original vision for Concord, while also expanding the label into new areas. Well, they've expanded (Barry Manilow etc.), but Concord hardly records any new jazz these days and there have been, I believe, numerous deletions. Concord hardly resembles the label it once was.

I recently picked up Budd Johnson (Four Brass Giants) and 'Basie Reunion' featuring Clayton and Quinechette...I do anticiapte a gradual withering away of this catalog. I hope I'm wrong.

[Dave James]

I have to agree with Chuck. In a sports context, this strikes me as an owner endorsing a losing coach or manager with a vote of confidence. Next thing you know the guy's looking for work.

Now that Concord has expanded their holdings, it seems even less likely that I'll ever see a reissue of the three Concord Richie Kamuca sessions. So much for my own personal Holy Grail. Bummer.

Up over and out.

[frank m]

In recent months there have been a large number of

Concord jazz albums showing on on Daedalus. I guess I'll go back and take a second look. They go for 5.98 which is a pretty good deal if you can find anything you want.

[garthsj]

For what is was worth .. large quantities of Concord albums turned up at Barnes & Noble stores in the last two years .. selling at $4.98 ... The selection was usually spread over several stores, so that in my case I had to travel all over Houston (the largest geographical city in the country) to see which store had which albums. I did over 120 miles of travel in one day, and I acquired about 45 separate albums. At this price I could sample several artists whose work was not well known to me, and I did find several gems that way ... But I also notice that about half of these albums are now in my discard list ... not keepers. Anybody want some Randy Sanke or Jeff Linsky albums?

Garth.

[Brad]

I've also seen a bunch of OJCs going cheap lately, $8.50, which is a good price. Doesn't that all direct site have them for that price?

[catesta]

My Fantasy order arrived yesterday.

Only one problem. They sent me a Junior Mance cd (one I already have) instead of the Junior Cook. Must be having trouble keeping up with the volume in the shipping room.

I shipped Mance back to Fantasy on Friday, my Cook cd arrived yesterday.

Nice service.

They sent me a sample cd as well. "New Jazz for 95"

It's probably been on the shelf since then.

Oh well, back to ordering.....

[Brad]

Further to Chuck's post, people when they acquire or divest a business say things are not going to change, we're trying to make it better, etc. That usually is correct as far as present intention goes. But when the new buyers actually run a company things do change. Otherwise, why would they buy a business. It's to make money and a lot of times buyers don't really comprehend how the business is run until they run it themselves for a few months. Then things change. It's just the way it is.

[Late]

I've also seen a bunch of OJCs going cheap lately, $8.50, which is a good price. Doesn't that all direct site have them for that price?

All Direct's price is $8.65 for regular OJCs, and $10.68 for the "limited" OJCs. Thanks to Quincy (far up above) for the tip on All Direct — making an order above $99 (for free shipping) is the way! If some titles aren't in stock, they'll ship the remainder of the order and still give you free shipping.

I fleshed out the rest of the Ammons "blowing session" dates, added a Cobb, picked up more Art Farmer, got some missing McLean's, and (can't believe I waited forever on this one) finally picked up Tadd Dameron's Fontainebleu. Absolutely beautiful, that one!

How is the sound on Dameron's The Magic Touch? All the sound samples I've listened to sound like there's bacon sizzling right in front of the mike. The music, however, is top-notch.

[catesta]

Further to Chuck's post, people when they acquire or divest a business say things are not going to change, we're trying to make it better, etc. That usually is correct as far as present intention goes. But when the new buyers actually run a company things do change. Otherwise, why would they buy a business. It's to make money and a lot of times buyers don't really comprehend how the business is run until they run it themselves for a few months. Then things change. It's just the way it is.

Very true.

[RDK]

While I don't think that anyone believes that Concord's purchase of Fantasy is a good thing in regards their extensive catalog, I do see it as a possible crossroads in how such a vast catalog is distributed in the future. And let's face it, for every Miles, Monk, or Coltrane album in their catalog, they have dozens of relatively obscure artists and albums. I have a hard time believing that some of their OJC-Limiteds sell anywhere near the 500-1000 albums a year that Blue Note (for example) requires for an album to stay in print.

With so many hundreds of OJCs already available, I'd bet that those yet unreleased on CD are (mostly) obscure albums with more limited appeal. With the state of jazz CD sales a they are, it's hardly good business for anyone to release them in the tradional way. I think Fantasy has consistently gone above-and-beyond in their zeal to release some of this. And god bless them for it. But I really think the future for some of these lesser known artists and rarer (or even just "not as good") recordings is going to be on-line or CD-on-demand distribution. It's a frightening thought in some ways - I like the tangible product as much as anyone - but I think as jazz fans we, especially, may need to embrace whatever new technologies come down the pike in regards music distribution. If we clamor for an album that maybe only a few hundred people want, it's gonna be the only hope we have of getting it legitimately.

And if Concord does decide to delete much of their OJC catalog entirely - which I doubt, because if nothing else there's on-line distribution via emusic - then there's always Aric's plan to fall back on...

[DrJ]

On a brighter note - continuing on the "I bought this because of someone's recommendation on this thread" theme begun earlier...let me just say that Randy Weston's WITH THESE HANDS... is one fantastic CD, you gotta hear it if you're a Weston fan for sure. 3 stars in AMG - yeah, what was THAT reviewer smoking?! This is really great Weston and Cecil Payne along in great form, some of the arrangements on standards here are really remarkable, you get the first version of "Little Niles," and it's amazing to hear how fully formed Randy's style was way back then. Excellent sound quality on this recording, too. Don't miss it.

[Late]

On a brighter note - continuing on the "I bought this because of someone's recommendation on this thread" theme begun earlier...let me just say that Randy Weston's WITH THESE HANDS... is one fantastic CD, you gotta hear it if you're a Weston fan for sure. ... Don't miss it.

Yes! Glad you're digging it. I love that first version of "Little Niles." Weston's intro — could that play as the opening credits to a movie or what? (At least that's what I always imagine. ) I burned a different order for that disc just so that I could always start with that composition. The remastered sound really is fine, too.

A recent OJC surprise for me was Eddie Daniels' First Prize. I picked it up not expecting too much, and was pleasantly kicked in the ass. Daniels seems to have combined, on tenor, the influence of Stan Getz and Wayne Shorter — a really interesting hybrid of sound and phrasing.

[DrJ]

I know Jim Sangrey may jump in and flame BOTH of us ( ) but I liked Daniels in that era a lot myself, too. I don't have that OJC you mention (another one added to the list!) but I dig what he did on the Jones/Lewis Solid State big band recordings in the Mosaic box, and REALLY dig what he does in Don Patterson's GENIUS OF THE B-3 (Muse) which I just discovered recently. On that date, everyone is taking chances and having a ball, firmly locked in to a collective groove, but it's Daniels that easily takes solo honors - playing smoking tenor, alto, and soprano.

Edited January 15, 2005 by DrJ