Ed S Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Big Wheel Under the circumstances, I don't think a post letting them know your thoughts as someone involved in jazz radio would have been pompous at all. Would have just underscored how big a jackass they all were for the handling of the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Bresnahan Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 (edited) I mentioned I another thread that I've been talking to Michael Cuscuna about "things Blue Note & Mosaic" and what I am hearing from him about how Blue Note feels about the board is very disappointing... and no, I am not going to be calling Tom any more about it.... well, maybe I won't. Anyhow, from Michael's comments, it seems that Blue Note isn't particularly worried. In fact, Michael still talks like the board was taken down to "improve" it. They are acting like the new board will open in May and all will click on over there like someone who just had a new house built. I have my doubts that anything they do will be that mind-boggling, but that's what I'm hearing from Michael. Are they simply that naive?? Maybe. Are we over-reacting to a redesigned board? Quite possibly. Is steve(thelil) really able to post with both hands... never mind. I do have to add that getting mad is perfectly understandable... I gather that Blue Note isn't particularly worried about us. Has anyone ever gotten an e-mail from them about the whole fiasco?? I used to get e-mails every two weeks or so. We have been kept in the dark about this, that is certain. However, I still see no reason to boycott Blue Note or Mosaic. I buy Blue Note CDs and Mosaic box sets for ME, not the company. If I boycott these record labels, I'm the only one being punished by preventing myself from hearing some great music. Blue Note has proved, to me at least, that my one or two CD per month habit means diddly-squat to them. Mosaic is a different story. They won't survive if enough core customers stop buying stuff. I don't equate Mosaic & Blue Note. They had absolutely nothing to do with what BN did to their board. I don't even think Cuscuna could have called them and asked them to do it differently. They didn't ask anyone, they just did it. Sure, I am mad... I am also sad... I am also confused. You see, I have met Tom many times. I will continue to hold out some hope that Tom may let me know the whats and whys of what he did but as time moves on, it looks like I thought too highly of our relationship. I guess an electrical engineer with a fascination with Jazz doesn't place me too highly in the Rolodex of record label execs (sniff...). Although, to plump up my ego a bit, Michael was just asking me what SACD player I recommended. Also, I have to say that I think Blue Note's reissue program is fine with me. They have and continue to have a successful way to get customers to buy their product. We went over this on the BN board a lot, but I'll ask again: If someone here, a Jazz fanatic, is standing in a CD store with $20 in their pocket with the intention of spending that $20 on one CD and they have one BN Connoisseur CD and one OJC "Limited Edition" CD in each hand, which one are you going to buy first (assuming that they are both high on your want list)? My answer is, and always has been, the Blue Note Connoisseur. I know that it ain't out forever. OJC's unlimited limited editions actually hurt their sales in my opinion. Lastly, I do agree that the US policy on copyrights (75 years after the owner's death) is a bit rediculous. However, don't act like this only benefits the record labels!! The artists' estates get royalties the whole time a copyrighted performance is released and sold. Artists and/or their estates get diddly-squat when their work goes out of copyright and is sold. In a nutshell, Ike Quebec's estate got some money from BN Japan when they reissued Ike's 40's material. Ike's estate got nothing when Classics put it out. Later, Kevin Edited March 15, 2003 by Kevin Bresnahan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Has anyone ever gotten an e-mail from them about the whole fiasco?? No, but I got one yesterday about the new Soullive album, with an option to preorder no less. See, they DO care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Vitus Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Honestly ... I began choosing anything over BN and I don't think I ended up with a loss on that. There are so many viable alternatives. I do not have any relationship with Cuscuna or Evered and I do not feel guilty about my way of punishing BN for the arrogance they displayed (and keep displaying, evident from Kevin's updates). Mosaic? Well, if it collects labels others than Capitol/BN/Roulette/Pacific Jazz, maybe. Otherwise? Hell, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Vitus Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Has anyone ever gotten an e-mail from them about the whole fiasco?? No, but I got one yesterday about the new Soullive album, with an option to preorder no less. See, they DO care! I got that one, too ... which gave me an opportunity to take my name off their list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Yeah, I got those stupid emails about Soul-dead . Guys, let's face it that stupid board is over and frankly we don't have that much marketing power unless we act as a group and frankly I don't know how big this group is or if it could exert any influence. If someone like Kevin B can't and he know some of these guys, well, forget it. Yeah, know if we get Michael C, different story. I like this board and AAJ but honestly I miss the old BNBB. But it's gone and there's nothing I can do about it. Lot of good people over here from there so that helps. I've even deleted it from my favorites. Life goes on, we've still got jazz, jazzmatazz (thank you Alan) and Hiroshi. We've lost a lot of people but there's still a good core. Anybody seen Hans lately, seems to me be absent. Yes, I suppose I'm sad but let's move on. Wonder if Tom pussy hurts He showed what he is: a corporate guy. When the bosses say jump, most of us say "how high" (esp. in this economy) and Tom's no different. He just seemed to delight in his crappy attitude. Thanks B-3er for this great site and now let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 I agree Brad. This board and AAJ have filled the void quite nicely. I have to admit that I was sad and mad. I'm pretty much over that as I've settled in here and at AAJ. But should someone raise the issue, I certainly won't mind getting a few potshots in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son-of-a-Weizen Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 Anybody seen Hans lately, seems to me be absent. He's around & checking things out........but for now he's probably focusing all of his energies on tracking down a "Procrastinator" TOCJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfricaBrass Posted March 15, 2003 Report Share Posted March 15, 2003 I've had to cut back drastically on my jazz spending during the last couple of years. I have tons of jazz cds that I have never given the proper time to digesting, so this isn't really a bad thing for me. When I cut back, I went from being a collector to a listener in most cases. I decided I would only try to be a completist with cds released by Blue Note and the labels under it's umbrella. I think I have purchased 95% of everything they have put out in the last 15 years, so I didn't want to stop. I was pissed at Verve, so I didn't feel too bad about not buying their stuff and since I had emusic, the OJCs had lost some of their allure, since they were so readily available. I still bought some stuff on other labels and some newer artists. What BN did for me with their actions was to set me free. I don't feel the desire to pick up all their releases. I'll probably stick with the BN reissues, but I don't have to have all the Roulette and Capital Jazz releases anymore. I think I have enough. For the newer BN releases, if I really want them, I'll get them used or from the record club. I'm enjoying this freedom. I've been buying cds from labels that I hadn't supported in a long time and I'm glad I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 Yeah, I got those stupid emails about Soul-dead . Guys, let's face it that stupid board is over and frankly we don't have that much marketing power unless we act as a group and frankly I don't know how big this group is or if it could exert any influence. If someone like Kevin B can't and he know some of these guys, well, forget it. Yeah, know if we get Michael C, different story. How many members were registered at the old BNBB? A little above 4.000. If they all would NOT buy the new Soulive CD, would that do any harm to them or the band? - Besides that, I doubt that we all succed in fighting our curiosity about that CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 Instead of merely complaining here on the board (although that's OK too), we should be sending e-mails, letters and faxes to EMI, about the whole BNBB fiasco, Tom's unforgivably arrogant attitude, their wholly contemptuous approach to their customers. Evered should go work somewhere else, and maybe a letter writing campaign will help make that point clear to EMI-BN. I am boycotting BN products. I prefer to buy vinyl BN anyway or 2nd hand CDs. We should all give our credit cards a rest. Listen to what you already have for the next year. As for Mosaic, I really don't have much sympathy. Cuscuna showed no backbone at all, and even seems to support what Evered did. So, let's call them collateral damage. I was going to buy the Chico Hamilton Mosaic, but will not . I don't give a shit if it goes forever out of print and hits $10,000 on EBAY. Same with their other product. As for the BNBB, I don't care if they come back with nude Norah Jones photos (well, maybe, just a peek, but that's IT ). The BNBB is forever dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 I've said it on other threads...we've never had it better. A bunch of boards that are filling the void ....I don't miss the bnbb at all (and that surprises me). What AMAZES me, however, is the stupidity of the suits in what is so obviously a very bad PR move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 I'm with Harold - each board has it's own collective "personality", and I like being able to cruise around, drop in, hang for a little bit, take a penny, leave a penny, etc, at each one. The BN board kinda had that "all under one roof" thing going on, but hey, as many have said, it's gone, so move on, adjust, and thrive in the New World of Polyboardogomy. I still think, however, that this whole "refugee", "diaspora", etc. phenomenon is a fascinating sociological study, and following it in detail reveals a lot about human nature as it pertains to similar historical events. What's happened through all this is probably none too different from other diasporas, albeit in a cyber-way. Watch and learn, as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold_Z Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 The Great Blue Note Diaspora of 2003. Yeah...I can dig it. As an example of what I think Jim is checking out and finds socially reavealing is the "Note to Blue Note people" thread at All About Jazz. Basically a couple of guys (out of the existing membership) took it upon themselves to lay the law down to what they perceived an an invading army. Quite a few of us posted in defense - some of us counter attacked. It was a GREAT THREAD in an entertaining and informative way. It's finally died down and the attackers have accepted the invaders - I think they realized that we weren't invaders after all - just a bunch of posters that arrived at Ellis Island at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 Yeah, Harold, and I'm also digging checking out how some people hold on to the BN sentiment (pro or con) and "traditions" longer than others, how some take the lead in setting up shop elsewhere (catesta was AWESOME in reforming/reshaping AAJ in a matter a days, and Dan Gould has been a leader in initiating new, serious discussions over there. And the fact that we're HERE is a testament to B-3ers willingness to go underground and set up an "alternative" apart from the AAJ "mainstream". Jazz Corner is a world of it's own, but there's good stuff to be gotten there if you can tough it out in the early phase of newbiedom. Cyber NYC (from a musician moving to "the city" standpoint) it indeed is! ), how some people follow along and some go off on their own, etc. None of which is meant as excess praise OR criticism. It's just revealing, I think, and a fascinating (I need to learn another adjective...) case study of the dynamics of diasporadom, which has been one of the major factors in shaping the global politics of the last half-century (or longer). I've said it before, and I'll say it again - circumstances change constantly, but people don't. Watch and learn, as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 I thank you Jim for that comment. Mike at AAJ was very receptive to making changes, I just gave him a little shove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesbed Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 I still think, however, that this whole "refugee", "diaspora", etc. phenomenon is a fascinating sociological study, and following it in detail reveals a lot about human nature as it pertains to similar historical events. What's happened through all this is probably none too different from other diasporas, albeit in a cyber-way. JSngry: I very much agree with what you write regarding the diaspora. I've been all over THIS board and have been monitoring the AAJ board at random times since the demise of the BNBB. The sociological aspects have been quite interesting and fun. I thought I was the only one who was following this phenomenon. I'm glad to know I was wrong. If it wasn't for the loss of the old threads & knowledge base at the BNBB, there seems to be more new information now, amongst two boards, than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 (catesta was AWESOME in reforming/reshaping AAJ in a matter a days, and Dan Gould has been a leader in initiating new, serious discussions over there. Well, Jim, I was just trying to make up for my participation/initiation of all the "remember when" threads B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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