Chicago

[Shawn]

I've been listening to the first couple albums today. The debut I've heard before, but this was the first time I've listened to II all the way through. Good stuff for the most part, a little more adventurous than I was expecting, a nice surprise actually. There is still a "cheesiness factor" to some of the material that bugs me, but overall I'm digging it.

[A Lark Ascending]

Try the third. It's by far the most experimental (pretty tame and partially digested experiment by jazz standards, but not your average blockbuster rock album by any means). I don't think it did as well as the first two which might explain why they started to draw in their horns (so to speak!).

II and III were bought in my first year of record buying - I always loved the sheer range of the albums. Good songs, range of styles (everything from pop to blues to country to dipping a toe into freer worlds [but not for more than a minute or so!]) and marvellous brass arrangements.

At the time I had no context for this music outside of rock; but listening to some of the New York Latin/Boogaloo music in recent years I can see where some of it came from, especially the horns.

Edited November 26, 2011 by A Lark Ascending

[ejp626]

The band Chicago was started by a bunch of DePaul students. Their manager also owns "Demon Dogs", a pretty good hot dog place under the el tracks on Fullerton near DePaul. They have Chicago memorabilia everywhere and play nothing but Chicago on the sound system. I like the band, but if I worked there and had to listen to it every day I'd probably go postal.

As long as we're dredging up old posts, Demon Dogs was lost when they rebuilt the Fullerton El stop. Both Fullerton and Belmont now span their respective streets, which is actually really convenient when trying to catch the buses going west. You used to have to dodge cars to get across the street. Plenty of people still do this, but most know to cross on top before coming out of the El. So there is a secondary station entrance right where Demon Dogs used to be. It is a shame that the CTA didn't do something more to help Demon Dogs relocate, but they were embarrassed when a series of articles came out in the newspaper claiming/proving that Demon Dogs had a sweetheart deal and paid almost nothing to the CTA. AFAIK, Demon Dogs never reopened in the city. I didn't eat there often, but from time to time I would get fries there.

Interestingly, on the south side of Fullerton, DePaul just opened a new art museum right next to the station, relocating its existing one from a few blocks west. It's worth a look if you are in the area.

[Larry Kart]

The band Chicago was started by a bunch of DePaul students. Their manager also owns "Demon Dogs", a pretty good hot dog place under the el tracks on Fullerton near DePaul. They have Chicago memorabilia everywhere and play nothing but Chicago on the sound system. I like the band, but if I worked there and had to listen to it every day I'd probably go postal.

As long as we're dredging up old posts, Demon Dogs was lost when they rebuilt the Fullerton El stop. Both Fullerton and Belmont now span their respective streets, which is actually really convenient when trying to catch the buses going west. You used to have to dodge cars to get across the street. Plenty of people still do this, but most know to cross on top before coming out of the El. So there is a secondary station entrance right where Demon Dogs used to be. It is a shame that the CTA didn't do something more to help Demon Dogs relocate, but they were embarrassed when a series of articles came out in the newspaper claiming/proving that Demon Dogs had a sweetheart deal and paid almost nothing to the CTA. AFAIK, Demon Dogs never reopened in the city. I didn't eat there often, but from time to time I would get fries there.

Interestingly, on the south side of Fullerton, DePaul just opened a new art museum right next to the station, relocating its existing one from a few blocks west. It's worth a look if you are in the area.

Demon Dogs was a mob-controlled enterprise, as was (to some extent) Chicago. Probably money laundering and Heaven knows what else.

See this list for the name of Chicago's manager, Peter Schivarelli:

http://realdealmafia.com/chicagolist.html

[Larry Kart]

Say no more:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=peter+schivarelli&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1022&bih=948&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnso&tbnid=7xuqLoIhDIrKnM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ndfootballhistory.com/Peter%2520Sch%2520feature.html&docid=bBs0XZNHQzGJMM&imgurl=http://www.ndfootballhistory.com/images/peterS.jpg&w=237&h=354&ei=tvDQTpCSF6Ly0gHz4KVD&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=102&vpy=113&dur=3923&hovh=274&hovw=184&tx=98&ty=172&sig=106903101126739068724&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=107&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0

[DobermanBoston]

My better half is a fan of their early, better stuff.

Personally I prefer Blood Sweat and Tears on the rare occasions I want to listen to that kind of music.

[jazzbo]

The very first rock band I ever saw in concert in a stadium was Chicago, in Canton, Ohio, when I was 16. I was a fan of the band, and we had been back in the States a few months, school hadn't started yet, and I don't quite remember how I talked my father into letting me get a ticket, dropping me off and picking me up, but I did manage to. We were staying with my grandmother, his Mom, and it was the summer vacation from school, and the entire family was getting our feet wet in American culture again after being in Africa for more than five years. To his credit, my father was helping me to have a good transition and supported my being interested in music. I think he believed Chicago to be better music for me to listen to than some of my other recordings, such as the albums of Hendrix, Cream, Mayall, Procol Harum. This was about six or seven months before I heard my first Miles Davis lps, and was led to fusion and then to hard bop and bebop, the new thing and swing. Chicago's horns and smattering of jazz content probably helped me get into "Miles Davis at Fillmore" and "Filles de Kilamanjaro."

The Chicago show was great! Killer sound, very dedicated performers giving 100 percent, or that is how I remember them. Shortly after this the band released the "Live at Carnegie Hall" box set and those performances remind me of the show I saw. I followed them up through Chicago V, and by then I was deep into other music, from King Crimson and Yes, to John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters, to Miles, Coltrane, Weather Report and Return to Forever.

It would be fun to have a time machine and see that show again!

Edited November 27, 2011 by jazzbo

[Shawn]

Thanks for sharing that!

I've sampled some BS&T, but it's not really doing much for me thus far.

[Quincy]

I think he believed Chicago to be better music for me to listen to than some of my other recordings, such as the albums of Hendrix, Cream, Mayall, Procol Harum.

Yes, thanks for sharing! The above especially rang true.

My first album given as an Xmas gift was Chicago 9 - sorry, like Super Bowls I mean IX, aka Greatest Hits 1 (I) when it was new.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

for years avoided them. finally got heavy into the 1st album and early early live shows. some of the 70s stuff is decent. cant stand the line: "a man selling ice cream". that line always stuck in my craw. 80s stuff could of been a lot better.

[BFrank]

80s stuff could of been a lot better.

By the 80's they were WAY past their prime.

[Jim R]

Somehow I managed to miss this thread originally, and yet I know I've participated in a discussion here about Chicago, Bill Champlin, The Sons, Cold Blood, BS&T, etc etc. At any rate, I saw Chicago at the Cow Palace in SF in '73... I think... I recall it being a good show, but all I really remember about that night was my best friend's girlfriend (future wife, to whom he is still married, as I am to my girlfriend of the time) was having a birthday that night, and her quite substantial home-made birthday cake got dropped before we had a chance to dig into it. I'm sure she was disappointed, but I was inconsolable... chocolate cake, buttercream frosting, raspberry filling... I guess I'm still not over it.

Never owned any Chicago LP's myself, but I have to say that after hearing some of the early stuff again in recent years, a lot of it has stood the test of time quite well, imo. That was a very good era for rock/pop music.

To me it was always very strange thinking of Bill Champlin joining Chicago... for me, a bit like seeing Curtis Salgado leave the Robert Cray Band and join Roomful Of Blues... or Willie Mays going to the Mets (or Joe Montana to the Chiefs). Just wrong.

I was a big fan of The Sons around '70 thru '74 or so, and I was sure that they were going to make it big eventually. It wasn't to be, but a lot of people around here still think they were severely under-appreciated. Looking back at their recorded work, though, I have to admit it's pretty uneven. Brilliant at times, and kind of weak at times. To see them live was pretty mind-blowing though, particularly to witness the multi-instrumental and vocal talents of Champlin, and the unique and tight arrangements they featured.

[A Lark Ascending]

Thanks for sharing that!

I've sampled some BS&T, but it's not really doing much for me thus far.

Much as I loved Chicago on those first three records, BS&T never made much of an impression on me. I think it was the chest-wiggy vocals that put me off.

My horn/reed route went from Chicago to King Crimson's Lizard and then to Soft Machine.

[jazzbo]

I never was too excited by the Al Kooper first edition of the band, but did get into the second album with David Clayton Thomas. The Satie piece they flirted with briefly on that one got me cognizant of that French composer, and I got my first wiff of Billie Holiday after discovering that "God Bless the Child" was one of her signature numbers. So they helped pave the way for me to several other branches of the musical tree.

Later, Jaco was in the band! That's interesting, never heard any of that material.

[JSngry]

David Clayton-Thomas was often a very....unsettling vocalist, but - BS&T & had superior, more creative and facile players in every position except guitar (Terry Kath vs Steve Katz is no contest), and possible drums, although Bobby Columby is still one of my most favorite drummers to ever play in a "rock" band, maybe because he playd "rock" dums with as much "jazz mentality" as anybody except early Keith Moon. But the horn writing for BS&T consistently excelled that of Chicago, imo, they just had a more...expansive view of what to do with their horns than Chicago ever dared to even think about.

Down side for BS&T - they never really grasped (and apparently didn't want to), the notion of being a "pop band", whereas Chicago seemed to be all about that. So what you end up with as BS&T goes along is quite often great playing and very interesting writing in the service of great playing and very interesting writing, not in the service of making a great organic pop record.

But occasionally...

[John L]

A lot of good bands never made it out of the 80s. The 80s were an evil time.

Ain't that the truth!

[Dan Gould]

A lot of good bands never made it out of the 80s. The 80s were an evil time.

Ain't that the truth!

Yeah but a lot of almost-good bands made it into the 80s and practically defined the decade. Hall & Oates, anyone?

Private eyes, they're watching you ..

How's that for an evil earworm?

[JSngry]

Oooohhhh....I always liked Hall & Oates, as one-song-at-a-time ear candy anyway. And they were in the forefront of mainstreaming the new keyboard technology (and/or "new wave" sensibility) into the top 40. I call that a blessing and a curse...but it happened. Those turn-of-the-decade hits of theirs really stood out on the radio as "different".

That one song..."Your Kiss Is On My Lips"(?), that's just good, timeless, danceable pop for the ages, no matter what instrumentation you have, you can make it work, and work well. Great groove, strong hooks,not musically uninteresting. Too bad they weren't all as good as that.

Edited November 27, 2011 by JSngry

[Dan Gould]

That one song..."Your Kiss Is On My Lips"(?), that's just good, timeless, danceable pop for the ages, no matter what instrumentation you have, you can make it work, and work well. Great groove, strong hooks,not musically uninteresting. Too bad they weren't all as good as that.

"Kiss is on my List" (kinda makes the lyrics even stupider, doesn't it?)

That's an evil earworm right there. And you do that to me after I shared my exciting news today.

Seriously though, I don't remotely get how that is "good, timeless danceable pop for the ages."

Bad, danceable shit as far as I'm concerned.

[JSngry]

I can only speak in terms of personal experience. It's harmonically clever & pleasantly constructed, hooks everywhere you look, so it's more fun to play than the stuff that is flatlined in those regards.

One caveat - it take as a really good singer to sing those songs and not sound strained, and on the circuit where it's likely to get played, there's not nearly enough of those to go around.

Yeah, it's got that whole Brian/Carl Wilson White Soul thing going on, of which I am a deep fan.

Edited November 27, 2011 by JSngry

[TedR]

I've also posted before how Chicago and BS&T lead me to jazz. But this is the song that made me start exploring jazz for the first time.......not the song so much as the tenor break with walking bass that starts around 1:51......