Miles - On the Corner and Beyond

[dave9199]

I would love to hear Rated X with out Miles's keyboard. It's wayyyyy too high in the mix. It sounds really interesting underneath.

[JSngry]

I'm being reminded anew just how engrossing the sound of Miles' electric trumpet w/wah-wah was in the context of this music. More than one observer at the time (and since) refers to something like an "electronic jungle" of sound, and even allowing for all the "easy answers" that type phraseology allows for, it still seems to aptly get to at least one of the essences of this music.

I'm not so sure that in some very essential ways that this is not the period of his music that captures an essence of Miles Davis that the rest of his music either ignores, hints at, or aspires to. Which is not to say that those other musics are "missing" anything (if anything, it is this music that is "lacking" damn near everything that those other musics had in glorious abundance), but only to say that this music emphasizes something of a type of deeply personal part of Miles that those other musics didn't. perhaps even couldn't allow for.

All I can say is that when I hear that trumpet electrified and wah-wahed deep inside those guitars and percussions and electricities, I hear and feel a deep fundamentality of a sort that has nothing to do with "trumpet" or "solo" or "jazz" or anything like that. I hear a one-ness of purpose and sound that could have only come from one source, and it is a source that Miles seems to have felt very justified in both seeking and obtaining.

It's in no way a "perfect" music. It's better than that. It's real.

[jazzbo]

The thing that is fascinating to me in this era of Miles is somewhat along the lines of what Jim is talking about: Miles' trumpet is so bold and new and different. . . he is finally really involved in "new directions in music" entirely.

So many others at the same time and later were playing "jazz trumpet" fused with these new forms. . . Miles was playing something new . . . and if he did dip back into a bag that had the dust of ages on it. . . he dropped his hand into the prmal blues bag.

[Stefan Wood]

Yes, there is something new in his playing during this period. However, after a first listen to the box set, I hear things that remind me of his playing in the 50's and 60's. I forget which of the sidemen said it, but he said that Miles was not playing that much different than before, but in a new context.

[jazzbo]

Well, doesn't really seem that way to me! Certianly it isn't done in a vacuum and no one can completely block out their earlier life or experience or work. Some of the blues playing strikes me as from before sure, but most of that that strikes me that way is earlier than the period of this box. . . .

Edited November 19, 2007 by jazzbo

[Peter Johnson]

Man, I am loving this box. But does anyone have (forgive me if this is in the liners, but I didn't see it) the way to "program" the discs to get the order of the original album?

Thanks.

[B. Clugston]

Man, I am loving this box. But does anyone have (forgive me if this is in the liners, but I didn't see it) the way to "program" the discs to get the order of the original album?

Thanks.

Which album? The original On the Corner is on Disc 6. You won't be able to program Get Up With It since "Honky Tonk" is on the Jack Johnson box.

[JSngry]

It's a cliche to say that he used the wah-wah as an elctronic plunger, but it's not untrue either. Yet, there's more to it than that, becuase he wasn't using just the wah-wah to color his sound, he was using the electric sound of the horn as well, and he was using them in a quite unified way. And he was likewise integrating his playing into the group sound in a way that was indeed new.

One of Chick Corea's favorite lines about the late-60s/early 70s electric bands was that when Miles was playing, it was a beautifully focused music, but when he stopped, it often became a bunch of self-indulgent jamming. Regardless of how you feel abou that, I think the point that Miles could bring an entire group together by the power & specificity of his playing is obvious. But in this music, he got the group together on its own terms and then didn't so much "lead" them as he did give them further shape and definition by... "melting" inside/into them and their sound. Of course, it was his concept of the sound into which he was melting, but it was also a sound that was a lot more texturally complex and rhytmically entwined (again, if somebody can "do the math" on "Mtume", I'll be grateful) than any he'd made before, and yes, I do think it might have been the most, oraganically purest "original" music he ever made, although if you see a humorous irony bordering on the contradictory-yielding-the-truth between "organic" and "original", then we're probably thinking along the same lines...

[JSngry]

So many others at the same time and later were playing "jazz trumpet" fused with these new forms. . .

You could say that Miles himself was doing that up to and including the Live/Evil band. I would, although advisedly.

But this band, this music, this was...unique. And beautiful.

[jazzbo]

Exactly, by this "period" I really meant this specific one after the Live/Evil band. The "jazz fusion trumpet" previously was pretty damned awesome, I'll take it over any of the other practicioners. And the playing on "It's About that Time" (studio) and "Go Ahead John" (multitracked) are about my favorite Miles playing. . . PERIOD.

[Stefan Wood]

Well, doesn't really seem that way to me! Certianly it isn't done in a vacuum and no one can completely block out their earlier life or experience or work. Some of the blues playing strikes me as from before sure, but most of that that strikes me that way is earlier than the period of this box. . . .

Yes, you are right. The fourth disc, which have the two long jams, are quite different. I'm wondering too how much his car accident and subsequent increase in drugs shaped the later sound as well.

[bobbelden]

I'm wondering too how much his car accident and subsequent increase in drugs shaped the later sound as well.

Put these names together and the music will have a social reference:

THE RED CARPET LOUNGE

SABU'S

BIG NICKS

COPPOLAS

BUMBY JOHNSON

WALTER DEAN

WALTER BOOKER

CHIN GIGANTE

[king ubu]

PS: No Duffy's, no other boxes planned....

Thanks for the update. Too bad !

Apologies but I don't get it - who is "notme"? Bob Belden? Or any of those other guys on that (interesting-looking) project he mentions? Just trying to find out why you (sidewinder) consider this info of any relevance... maybe I'm just too stupid...

[sidewinder]

I'm assuming its possibly "the" Bob with the news from the horse's mouth - but maybe I'm wrong..

Edited November 20, 2007 by sidewinder

[jazzbo]

I'm assuming its possibly "the" Bob

C'mon. . . .When have YOU ever been wrong?

Edited November 20, 2007 by jazzbo

[king ubu]

I'm assuming its possibly "the" Bob

C'mon. . . .When have YOU ever been wrong?

so bobs talking of bobs can't be wrong...

too bad if that's true

(not the bob thing, but the facts *the* Bob stated above, of course)

[JSngry]

I'm assuming its possibly "the" Bob with the news from the horse's mouth - but maybe I'm wrong..

You're not.

[skeith]

I picked this box up a couple of days ago.

Like others have said, the outer box had several major dents concealed by the paper on the back, so I did not notice until I opened it. I won't be returning it because I suspect that given the thinness of the metal a lot of the boxes will be dented.

As for the liner notes, I am somewhat disappointed - many of the pages don't have much text and what text is there I did not find too compelling. Buckmaster - I expected much more than he delivered.

As for the music, I have listened through disc 4 and have found the music to be alternately fantastic and boring - but it is too soon for a final judgement at this moment. (I must admit I was not too thrilled by this music when it first came out.)

[king ubu]

I'm assuming its possibly "the" Bob with the news from the horse's mouth - but maybe I'm wrong..

You're not.

Apologies then if there've been some hidden hints I should have noticed... always appreciated to get information straight from the soure!

[JSngry]

Oh, no need to apologize. No hidden hints or anything like that, I just know that it is Bob.

[sidewinder]

Not this "Bob"?

Bob

Edited November 21, 2007 by sidewinder

[WTK]

I certainly hope it's not this "Bob!"

Bob

[dave9199]

Now that we have this box set, has anyone gone through the '75 live albums and figured out what songs are there? I remember What They Do is on one of them.

[B. Clugston]

Now that we have this box set, has anyone gone through the '75 live albums and figured out what songs are there? I remember What They Do is on one of them.

"Ife," probably "Mr. Foster," "Turnaround," "Maiysha," the odd "Calypso Frelimo" reference. Not sure about "What They Do." It shares some similarities to song known as "Turnaroundphrase," but is missing some key elements. "What They Do" sounds more like the "Turnaroundphrase" rave-up that closes Dark Magus.

[dave9199]

Pardon my ignorance, but I've noticed the Helen Butte/Mr Freedom X unedited master is 5 seconds longer than the released version. How different are the two?