johnny mercer + cohn/newman/green selects

[sidewinder]

How cool is this? My sister is giving the Cohn/Newman/Green set to me as payment for doing her taxes! WOO HOO!!!

Pretty cool !

[Chas]

Sound on most of the Spanish RCA CDs I have heard does not compare with the audio of the original RCAs by a very long shot!

The sound on all my Spanish RCA CDs is mediocre at best. Most of them sound as if noise reduction was applied, they're dead as a dodo.

Of the Spanish RCA CDs that I've heard the only one that I thought was subpar was the Hal Mckusick Jazz Workshop ( one of my favorite RCA jazz records ) . I recall the original vinyl of that one sounding rather better ( don't recall if the tape stretch heard on Lydian Lullaby was heard on the LP either ) .

Other Spanish RCA CDS sound good however . The Freddy Merkle sounds good , though that's one I never heard on vinyl . The J. J. Johnson's are fine ; not surprising I suppose , since the orignal LPs were Dynagroove ( RCA's 'new coke' ! ) .

Not that the RCA CDs are perfect . TheTotal J.J. CD has no pauses between the tracks . The J.J. ! CD has an incorrect recording date , and is missing the two Tom McIntosh numbers that are on the Mosaic Single ( I've asked about the quality of these McIntosh charts before and never gotten a reply . Didn't anyone buy the Mosaic Single ?? ) .

[tatifan]

I had to laugh, I had JUST picked up a vinyl copy of "Four Trumpets, One Tenor", came home checked my email, and there was a message from Mosaic announcing this set!! Which made my decision to return the lp, which turned out to be badly worn, much easier! More from the RCA Jazz Workshop series would be most welcome! I agree about the RCA Spain issues soundin bad.....most of the Lonehills sound better despite being from whatever source they are "xeroxed" from.

Completely off topic, having just spun Manny Albam's "West Side Story" album on Coral, has there ever been a reissue of this kick-ass title? Does anyone own the Coral material these days?

[JohnBlutarski]

And — as the label is under the RCA umbrella — I still want to see a Flying Dutchman Select!

i'm not sure if you're serious or not. you think mosaic would go there? there's been a low key flying dutchman reissue series in europe over the past few years. i had to go for the oliver nelson titles ('skull sessions' [replete with its heavy metal looking coverart], 'afrique', and 'swiss suite') myself.

did the series have a name? do you have a link?

I do have a series of compilations, called "The Vibe- The Ultimate Rare Groove Series", from France, on BMG...

JB

[mgraham333]

Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'........

Any news on the release dates other than "Late May"?

Not unusual, but this one went from early May to mid-to-late May to late May do I hear early June?

[Big Al]

Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'........

Any news on the release dates other than "Late May"?

Not unusual, but this one went from early May to mid-to-late May to late May do I hear early June?

Yes you do.

[Kalo]

The Mercer is tempting, but the Cohn/Newman/Green sounds like a slam dunk!

At least my birthday is coming up, if I need a rationalization.

[mgraham333]

Time keeps on slippin' slippin' slippin'........

Any news on the release dates other than "Late May"?

Not unusual, but this one went from early May to mid-to-late May to late May do I hear early June?

Yes you do.

I should have kept my mouth shut fingers interlaced.

This happened sometime after my post.

[Larry Kart]

I've known the Cohn/Newman/Greene material since it first came out, and IMO it's rather dull compared to other "mainstream," more or less neo-Basie dates of the time, e.g. the stuff that John Hammond did for Vanguard. If I had to point to a particular reason why, it might be the freeze-dried Basie licks of Nat Pierce and (perhaps) the over familiarity (with each other) of Milt Hinton and Osie Johnson, but the atmosphere is a bit mechanical and "by the numbers." Perhaps it's just the RCA-ishness of it all. A lot of the things that came out there under the aegis of Jack Lewis had that mechanical, etc. feel -- or so I thought at the time, though there are few oddities (say, "Al Cohn with Four Trumpets") that I'd like to hear again, based on dim memories that there was some sparks in the air that day.

[Kalo]

I've known the Cohn/Newman/Greene material since it first came out, and IMO it's rather dull compared to other "mainstream," more or less neo-Basie dates of the time, e.g. the stuff that John Hammond did for Vanguard. If I had to point to a particular reason why, it might be the freeze-dried Basie licks of Nat Pierce and (perhaps) the over familiarity (with each other) of Milt Hinton and Osie Johnson, but the atmosphere is a bit mechanical and "by the numbers." Perhaps it's just the RCA-ishness of it all. A lot of the things that came out there under the aegis of Jack Lewis had that mechanical, etc. feel -- or so I thought at the time, though there are few oddities (say, "Al Cohn with Four Trumpets") that I'd like to hear again, based on dim memories that there was some sparks in the air that day.

Thanks for saving me some money, Larry!

[Big Al]

I've known the Cohn/Newman/Greene material since it first came out, and IMO it's rather dull compared to other "mainstream," more or less neo-Basie dates of the time, e.g. the stuff that John Hammond did for Vanguard. If I had to point to a particular reason why, it might be the freeze-dried Basie licks of Nat Pierce and (perhaps) the over familiarity (with each other) of Milt Hinton and Osie Johnson, but the atmosphere is a bit mechanical and "by the numbers." Perhaps it's just the RCA-ishness of it all. A lot of the things that came out there under the aegis of Jack Lewis had that mechanical, etc. feel -- or so I thought at the time, though there are few oddities (say, "Al Cohn with Four Trumpets") that I'd like to hear again, based on dim memories that there was some sparks in the air that day.

Thanks for saving me some money, Larry!

I'm still getting it!

[ghost of miles]

I called Mosaic on Monday about both new Selects and they said, "Roughly two weeks..." So hopefully they'll start shipping around June 4th.

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

[brownie]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

[Larry Kart]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

Yes, he did supervise the Jazz Workshop series, but judging by the nature of much of his less adventurous work for RCA, I think he essentially just OK'd the JW projects (for which he certainly deserves credit). The musical supervision, I'd bet, was pretty much in the hands of the respective composers-leaders: George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al. Again, I wouldn't mind having full access to the RCA/Jack Lewis jazz catalogue of the time and being able to pick and chose, but there was IMO an air of routine to the typical RCA date of the Lewis era. And when there was some welcome focus and spark, as on the Cohn-Perkins-Kamuca album, I suspect it came from the musicians taking things in their own hands far more than from Lewis. Another way to look at it is that the RCA/Lewis material was essentially a byproduct of the relatively flush NYC recording studio scene of the mid-1950s, when guys like Milt Hinton, Osie Johnson, Al Cohn, Nick Travis, Barry Galbraith, Bernie Glow, Billy Byers, Manny Albam, etc. were playing in and/or writing for a floating studio big band that found itself in whole or in part in recording studios on dates of all kinds as often as 16 or more hours a day. Thus an air of the routine was almost inevitable when those guys assembled, though it could be broken through. I would say that the vast majority of the guys who recorded for RCA were drawn from that pool of musicians, with the exception of actual Basie-ites like Joe Newman, Thad Jones, Henry Coker, etc., and the West Coast people that RCA recorded (who were of course drawn from the LA equivalent to the NYC studio scene -- though I don't know if Lewis was the A&R man for the West Coast material).

[BruceH]

The Mercer is tempting, but the Cohn/Newman/Green sounds like a slam dunk!

At least my birthday is coming up, if I need a rationalization.

Oh yeah!

[medjuck]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

Yes, he did supervise the Jazz Workshop series, but judging by the nature of much of his less adventurous work for RCA, I think he essentially just OK'd the JW projects (for which he certainly deserves credit). The musical supervision, I'd bet, was pretty much in the hands of the respective composers-leaders: George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al. Again, I wouldn't mind having full access to the RCA/Jack Lewis jazz catalogue of the time and being able to pick and chose, but there was IMO an air of routine to the typical RCA date of the Lewis era. And when there was some welcome focus and spark, as on the Cohn-Perkins-Kamuca album, I suspect it came from the musicians taking things in their own hands far more than from Lewis. Another way to look at it is that the RCA/Lewis material was essentially a byproduct of the relatively flush NYC recording studio scene of the mid-1950s, when guys like Milt Hinton, Osie Johnson, Al Cohn, Nick Travis, Barry Galbraith, Bernie Glow, Billy Byers, Manny Albam, etc. were playing in and/or writing for a floating studio big band that found itself in whole or in part in recording studios on dates of all kinds as often as 16 or more hours a day. Thus an air of the routine was almost inevitable when those guys assembled, though it could be broken through. I would say that the vast majority of the guys who recorded for RCA were drawn from that pool of musicians, with the exception of actual Basie-ites like Joe Newman, Thad Jones, Henry Coker, etc., and the West Coast people that RCA recorded (who were of course drawn from the LA equivalent to the NYC studio scene -- though I don't know if Lewis was the A&R man for the West Coast material).

As I remember it you can add Phil and Quill to that list of the NY studio guys; but I thought they did a lot of good stuff. Funny how in his autobiography (Bass Lines-- basically a great photo book) Hinton complains that he didn't get to play on many jazz dates.

[Adam]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

Yes, he did supervise the Jazz Workshop series, but judging by the nature of much of his less adventurous work for RCA, I think he essentially just OK'd the JW projects (for which he certainly deserves credit). The musical supervision, I'd bet, was pretty much in the hands of the respective composers-leaders: George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al. Again, I wouldn't mind having full access to the RCA/Jack Lewis jazz catalogue of the time and being able to pick and chose, but there was IMO an air of routine to the typical RCA date of the Lewis era. And when there was some welcome focus and spark, as on the Cohn-Perkins-Kamuca album, I suspect it came from the musicians taking things in their own hands far more than from Lewis. Another way to look at it is that the RCA/Lewis material was essentially a byproduct of the relatively flush NYC recording studio scene of the mid-1950s, when guys like Milt Hinton, Osie Johnson, Al Cohn, Nick Travis, Barry Galbraith, Bernie Glow, Billy Byers, Manny Albam, etc. were playing in and/or writing for a floating studio big band that found itself in whole or in part in recording studios on dates of all kinds as often as 16 or more hours a day. Thus an air of the routine was almost inevitable when those guys assembled, though it could be broken through. I would say that the vast majority of the guys who recorded for RCA were drawn from that pool of musicians, with the exception of actual Basie-ites like Joe Newman, Thad Jones, Henry Coker, etc., and the West Coast people that RCA recorded (who were of course drawn from the LA equivalent to the NYC studio scene -- though I don't know if Lewis was the A&R man for the West Coast material).

What potential Mosaics are in all that material?

[J.A.W.]

I've known the Cohn/Newman/Greene material since it first came out, and IMO it's rather dull compared to other "mainstream," more or less neo-Basie dates of the time, e.g. the stuff that John Hammond did for Vanguard. If I had to point to a particular reason why, it might be the freeze-dried Basie licks of Nat Pierce and (perhaps) the over familiarity (with each other) of Milt Hinton and Osie Johnson, but the atmosphere is a bit mechanical and "by the numbers." Perhaps it's just the RCA-ishness of it all. A lot of the things that came out there under the aegis of Jack Lewis had that mechanical, etc. feel -- or so I thought at the time, though there are few oddities (say, "Al Cohn with Four Trumpets") that I'd like to hear again, based on dim memories that there was some sparks in the air that day.

The Select includes Al Cohn's album The Natural Seven; I've just listened to the Spanish Fresh Sound/RCA CD issue again and I have to admit that it's a pretty lacklustre, uninspired affair...

[Larry Kart]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

Yes, he did supervise the Jazz Workshop series, but judging by the nature of much of his less adventurous work for RCA, I think he essentially just OK'd the JW projects (for which he certainly deserves credit). The musical supervision, I'd bet, was pretty much in the hands of the respective composers-leaders: George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al. Again, I wouldn't mind having full access to the RCA/Jack Lewis jazz catalogue of the time and being able to pick and chose, but there was IMO an air of routine to the typical RCA date of the Lewis era. And when there was some welcome focus and spark, as on the Cohn-Perkins-Kamuca album, I suspect it came from the musicians taking things in their own hands far more than from Lewis. Another way to look at it is that the RCA/Lewis material was essentially a byproduct of the relatively flush NYC recording studio scene of the mid-1950s, when guys like Milt Hinton, Osie Johnson, Al Cohn, Nick Travis, Barry Galbraith, Bernie Glow, Billy Byers, Manny Albam, etc. were playing in and/or writing for a floating studio big band that found itself in whole or in part in recording studios on dates of all kinds as often as 16 or more hours a day. Thus an air of the routine was almost inevitable when those guys assembled, though it could be broken through. I would say that the vast majority of the guys who recorded for RCA were drawn from that pool of musicians, with the exception of actual Basie-ites like Joe Newman, Thad Jones, Henry Coker, etc., and the West Coast people that RCA recorded (who were of course drawn from the LA equivalent to the NYC studio scene -- though I don't know if Lewis was the A&R man for the West Coast material).

What potential Mosaics are in all that material?

I don't have a list of all the stuff that RCA produced in the Jack Lewis era (BTW, I see that Al Cohn with Four Trumpets album is on the new Mosaic set), but unfortunately it looks like Fresh Sound has been there first in many instances ("unfortunately" because Mosaic could do it better and also because even when Fresh Sound is operating on the square, it feels to me like they are not). I believe that much, maybe all, of the Jazz Workshop material (George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al.) material has made it to Fresh Sound, plus there's a Fresh Sound that combines some RCA McKusick (the date with a string quartet and Manny Albam charts -- much better than one might think, with some gorgeous McKusick clarinet) with stuff he did at the time for other labels. A Rod Levitt Mosaic Select has been wished for before. For those with a taste for such things (I'd probably bite), a Sauter-Finegan Mosaic would be nice. Whatever else, those were fantastic-sounding recordings, and it would fun to hear them restored to their original glory if possible. Is there enough for a Mosaic Select of the Maynard Ferguson Dream Band? I'd probably pass, much preferring Maynard's band of the Roulette era, but it would be nice to have the option. Of individual albums of note, Mosaic has already done "The Brothers." RCA's subsidiary labels "X" and VIK had some interesting stuff: one forgotten gem is a Chuck Wayne big band/small group album with some of trumpeter Don Joseph's best solo work, "String Fever," reissued on CD on Euphoria, a guitar-oriented label; there are George Handy's two for "X," a blowing date with Allen Eager, Ernie Royal, and Kai Winding, and an interesting if precious at times orchestral album whose title I can't recall, both I believe on Fresh Sound now; and I've always had a soft spot for John Benson Brooks "Folk Jazz USA" (VIK), with Nick Travis, Zoot on alto, and Cohn on baritone. Fresh Sound also has put out the Nick Travis RCA quintet album with the Flora cover, "The Riot Is On," a collection of RCA Pete Jolly small group material that I have on order, and, I'm sure, much else that RCA did on the West Coast, including lots of Shorty Rogers. I'd love to see a complete list of RCA jazz albums from the '50s. I probably heard most of them at the time. But please spare me from "The Drum Suite"!

[ghost of miles]

Anybody gotten their Mercer and/or Cohn Selects yet--or, barring that, notice that they've shipped?

[Chas]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

Yes, he did supervise the Jazz Workshop series, but judging by the nature of much of his less adventurous work for RCA, I think he essentially just OK'd the JW projects (for which he certainly deserves credit). The musical supervision, I'd bet, was pretty much in the hands of the respective composers-leaders: George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al......

It was Fred Reynolds who produced most of the Russell Jazz Workshop , some of the Carisi Jazz Workshop , and possibly some of the McKusick Jazz Workshop as well , so perhaps Larry's surmise about Lewis is correct . Lewis' light-handed approach is creditable only inasmuch as it allowed brilliant musical minds to create freely ; in other contexts , when the musical muses were silent , the downside of such an approach was made manifest .

[Big Al]

Anybody gotten their Mercer and/or Cohn Selects yet--or, barring that, notice that they've shipped?

Site sez it's expected to ship "early June." Well, I guess since it's not yet the 15th, technically it's still "early," I guess.....

[ghost of miles]

Just talked to Mosaic, and the Mercer is now in-house--the Cohn should be arriving later today.

[garthsj]

Isn't Jack Lewis the one who also oversaw the Jazz Workshop series?

Indeed, he did! Jack Lewis was the A&R man behind many of Victor's best jazz releases from the fifties.

Yes, he did supervise the Jazz Workshop series, but judging by the nature of much of his less adventurous work for RCA, I think he essentially just OK'd the JW projects (for which he certainly deserves credit). The musical supervision, I'd bet, was pretty much in the hands of the respective composers-leaders: George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al. Again, I wouldn't mind having full access to the RCA/Jack Lewis jazz catalogue of the time and being able to pick and chose, but there was IMO an air of routine to the typical RCA date of the Lewis era. And when there was some welcome focus and spark, as on the Cohn-Perkins-Kamuca album, I suspect it came from the musicians taking things in their own hands far more than from Lewis. Another way to look at it is that the RCA/Lewis material was essentially a byproduct of the relatively flush NYC recording studio scene of the mid-1950s, when guys like Milt Hinton, Osie Johnson, Al Cohn, Nick Travis, Barry Galbraith, Bernie Glow, Billy Byers, Manny Albam, etc. were playing in and/or writing for a floating studio big band that found itself in whole or in part in recording studios on dates of all kinds as often as 16 or more hours a day. Thus an air of the routine was almost inevitable when those guys assembled, though it could be broken through. I would say that the vast majority of the guys who recorded for RCA were drawn from that pool of musicians, with the exception of actual Basie-ites like Joe Newman, Thad Jones, Henry Coker, etc., and the West Coast people that RCA recorded (who were of course drawn from the LA equivalent to the NYC studio scene -- though I don't know if Lewis was the A&R man for the West Coast material).

What potential Mosaics are in all that material?

I don't have a list of all the stuff that RCA produced in the Jack Lewis era (BTW, I see that Al Cohn with Four Trumpets album is on the new Mosaic set), but unfortunately it looks like Fresh Sound has been there first in many instances ("unfortunately" because Mosaic could do it better and also because even when Fresh Sound is operating on the square, it feels to me like they are not). I believe that much, maybe all, of the Jazz Workshop material (George Russell, Hal McKusick, et al.) material has made it to Fresh Sound, plus there's a Fresh Sound that combines some RCA McKusick (the date with a string quartet and Manny Albam charts -- much better than one might think, with some gorgeous McKusick clarinet) with stuff he did at the time for other labels. A Rod Levitt Mosaic Select has been wished for before. For those with a taste for such things (I'd probably bite), a Sauter-Finegan Mosaic would be nice. Whatever else, those were fantastic-sounding recordings, and it would fun to hear them restored to their original glory if possible. Is there enough for a Mosaic Select of the Maynard Ferguson Dream Band? I'd probably pass, much preferring Maynard's band of the Roulette era, but it would be nice to have the option. Of individual albums of note, Mosaic has already done "The Brothers." RCA's subsidiary labels "X" and VIK had some interesting stuff: one forgotten gem is a Chuck Wayne big band/small group album with some of trumpeter Don Joseph's best solo work, "String Fever," reissued on CD on Euphoria, a guitar-oriented label; there are George Handy's two for "X," a blowing date with Allen Eager, Ernie Royal, and Kai Winding, and an interesting if precious at times orchestral album whose title I can't recall, both I believe on Fresh Sound now; and I've always had a soft spot for John Benson Brooks "Folk Jazz USA" (VIK), with Nick Travis, Zoot on alto, and Cohn on baritone. Fresh Sound also has put out the Nick Travis RCA quintet album with the Flora cover, "The Riot Is On," a collection of RCA Pete Jolly small group material that I have on order, and, I'm sure, much else that RCA did on the West Coast, including lots of Shorty Rogers. I'd love to see a complete list of RCA jazz albums from the '50s. I probably heard most of them at the time. But please spare me from "The Drum Suite"!

It has always been obvious to me that Larry and I have very similar tastes (it must have been the water in the fifties-sixties) for this era's jazz, now thankfully being reissued .. even if it takes the Andorreans and Barceloneans to do it! When talking about RCA jazz of the fifties, I just wanted to throw into the mix the three great Tony Scott albums, and to thank Jordi for making these available .. sure as hell RCA in the U.S. would never have reissued those ... and IMO they are among the most interesting RCA albums outside of the Workshop Series. I used to think that I was the only Hal McKusick fan in the world when in the late fifties I collected all of his stuff that I could find, including fugitive tracks on Coral, Decca, Savoy and his fine Bethlehem album with Barry Galbraith. It is a pleasant feeling to see my tastes vindicated by a younger generation of jazz fans. (God! To think that I now have to refer to a "younger generation"!!!!)

Edited June 13, 2007 by garthsj

[Big Al]

Just talked to Mosaic, and the Mercer is now in-house--the Cohn should be arriving later today.

Niiiiiiice!