New Shorty Rogers collection

[Alec]

Anyone have more information about this JSP set?

Shorty Rogers: West Coast Trumpet Ace, Bandleader, Composer Vol. 1 1946-1954 - Import CD

[EulaM]

Anyone have more information about this JSP set?

Shorty Rogers: West Coast Trumpet Ace, Bandleader, Composer Vol. 1 1946-1954 - Import CD

I just see he's wearing his Lighthouse Hawaiin shirt which they all wore before they removed the Island decorations. This around 1953, 54, or so. Much of those years were spent at the Lighthouse, Shorty being one of the Lighthouse All Star's first members. I just know he was an amazing talent and would bring the house down when he played his coronet, such a beautiful sound. He was the master on it.

Sandi

[Chuck Nessa]

Coronet?

[Tom in RI]

Extra value is what you get

When you play Coronet!

[Alec]

Well I tracked down a track list.

Any comments?

Description

5-CD set. In December 1945 Charlie Parker took a sextet to LA at the request of club owner billy Berg. If any event can be sasid to mark the start of the West Coast sound, this is it. The collection charts Shorty Rogers' speedy evolution from promising newcomer to established elder statesman, and at the same time, represents an important part of the history of the West Coast sound.

Songs

Igor

Bop

Keen And Preachy

Lemon Drop

Keeper Of The Flame

Mor Moon

The Great Life

Tenderly

Lollipop

A Mile Down The Highway

He Can COme Back Anytime

do It Again

Jolly Roger

Art Pepper

Viva Prado

Round Robin

Short Wave

Four Mothers

Didi

Sam And The Lady

Popo

Over The Rainbow

Apropos

Popo

What's New

Lullaby In Rhythm

All The Things You Are

Robbins Nest

Scrapple From The Apple

Body And Soul

Jive At Five

Tn Tin Deo

Cherokee

Punkin'

Swing Shift

Block Buster

Dynamite

Pirouette

Bunny

Powder Puff

The Pesky Serpent

Diablo's Dance

Indian Club

Morpo

Mambo Del Crow

Coop De Graas

Infini Promenade

Short Stop

Boar-Jibu

Contours

Tale Of An American Lobster

Chiquito Loco

The Sweetheart Of Sigmund Freud

Infinity Promenade

Short Snort

Buzzy

Hot Blood (The Wild One)

Blues For Brando

Windswept

Chino

Topsy

It's Sand, Man

Basie Eyes

Doggin' Around

Jump For Me

Over And Out

Down For Double

Swingin' The Blues

H&J

Tickletoe

Taps Miller

Walk Don't Run

Just A Few

Heatwave

Everything I've Got Belongs To You

You Stepped Out Of A Dream

It Only Happens When I Dance With You

General Cluster

Some Antics

Claudia

40 Degrees Below

Jocycle

The Lady Is A Tramp

The Goof And I

My Little Suede Shoes

Cool Sunshine

Loki

Elaine's Lullaby

It's Delovely

Call For Cole

You Do Something To Me

Porterhouse

Lullaby Of Birdland

[EulaM]

Coronet?

Flugel Horn, Coronet, or if you prefer, Cornet. Shorty Rogers was known for it and it was said there was no one better on it, even that he was the best. You were in for a special treat when it was being played. He would be in a special frame of mind when he would unpack it and put a final polish on it before playing, funny, but Clark Terry would do the same. Such beauty those little horns could give you when in either mans hands.

Edited February 1, 2008 by EulaM

[Chuck Nessa]

Case closed.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Chuck Nessa

[BeBop]

Is this all resissue material? Anything new? Thanks.

[Teasing the Korean]

Eula, I'm glad you're posting on Organissimo.

[EulaM]

Eula, I'm glad you're posting on Organissimo.

Thank you,

Sandi 'Winkler' Hummer ....from Hermosa Beach.

[DMP]

I've always enjoyed Sandi's posts. A quick (un-related to this thread) question - what's the status of the Lighthouse these days? The last time I was in the area there had been a fire at the adjoining building the night before.

[EulaM]

I've always enjoyed Sandi's posts. A quick (un-related to this thread) question - what's the status of the Lighthouse these days? The last time I was in the area there had been a fire at the adjoining building the night before.

Other than photo's of times past, ones which Stan Levey took, at least they're the ones I know about, and was there watching him take them, I hear there is little left of how it used to be. It's been remodeled, probably for the better, but I would have liked it to stay the same. Of course John Levine isn't at his perch at the end of the bar in face to face serious talks with Miles, nor is he playing chess with him at their spot which was fun to watch. I don't recall who would win, as they were long drawn out affairs as Miles would play between practice, sets, etc.

I think the only one left alive, of all of the fellows who made the Lighthouse what it was, is Howard Rumsey. He must be close to 97 now. Hard to believe that after playing for so many years in such an environment that he's been the picture of health.

After John Levine died, his son took over. He was good friends with one of my best friends, and Jack told me that John's son, Scott (I think that was his name), just didn't know how to handle bookings, he didn't know what people wanted to hear and see, nor did he understand the in's and out's of running a jazz club, particularly one that was so famous, one which had been such an international draw. Then Howard moved to a club in Redondo Beach, and that pretty much was the end of the Lighhouse as the club everyone enjoyed playing, it ended being a club for the best jazz around. Scott began to bring in Rock and Roll bands, heavy metal and such. One time when down there to go to a high school reunion, we were stopped in traffic and I listened to what was coming out, it was a latin themed jazz group and it sounded pretty awful. Broke my heart to hear what had happened to the place.

The times that the Lighthouse was in it's hay day can never be again, and for all sorts of reasons, many of them being financial. Imagine hearing Miles, Charlie, John Coltrane, and just about anyone else without a cover charge on any given day or night, and even when patrons were asked to pay, I was never charged, they wouldn't hear of taking my money. It was such an unusual place, a local neighborhood bar more or less. Not many places around like that any longer.

The Lighthouse does have some special times where they do bring in the well known jazz musicians, and some special happenings, like memorials for Conte Condoli, and such, but those are rare and far between.

I wish they would do a bronze statue of John and Miles playing chess at the end of the bar, John perched on his barstool at the end, with Miles just around the corner, him always standing leaning on one elbow into John's space, the two of them in some serious and fun discussions. This is how I remember them together, it was great to see and hear, John with his gravely voice, which sounded so gruff, but he was a sweetheart, and ran the best place around.

Edited February 6, 2008 by EulaM

[Brad]

Any thoughts on this set? Anybody have it?

[EulaM]

Any thoughts on this set? Anybody have it?

About the only things I hear complaining of the recordings which were done back in Shorty's day was the quality of the recordings, and mainly this is due to many of them having been recorded live. At the Lighthouse, there was the sound of traffic and the surf, then too there was the cash register and the crowd.

The thing with Shorty, perhaps I'm a bit prejudiced, him being a hometown guy and all, but I didn't know a soul who wasn't impressed by his talent, and I myself thought he was quite grand. I know when one of his recordings was supposed to come out, I usually knew about it in advance, and if I had the money I would rush down to our local record/music shop to buy one, however in less than a half a day his albums were usually gone. He was the hot ticket in our town at the time. I missed out all but one time, there was a record by him the last of the shipment, and so picked one up without even knowing what was on it. At that time, they had listening booths, but I knew his work so well, I didn't even consider going in a booth to hear it. I was so surprised that I managed to get to the shop before they were all gone. Worst record I've heard, and that's because it's a funeral dirge, or close to it, what's the name of the song, Black Sunday or Black Sabbath or something like that. It's about death and suicide. The most depressing music I've ever heard, and the first time I ever heard anything by him that I just couldn't stand. I still have it, one of the ones no one else liked either so no one took it like they did my other albums. It's mint.

There are some terrific songs on that set, the one your're asking about, so if you like Shorty and the quality of the recordings are good, I don't see how you could go wrong.

We were all so disappointed when he left Hermosa Beach to become a studio musician. Shorty like so many of the guys were all so tired of the road and all of it's hardships, besides at the studio's the pay was better for a lot of them. Shorty would come back and play now and then, but it became rarer and rarer to have him make an appearance.

He was good, I mean really. If anything I would think that this set would help fill and round out a collection, especially with such an important musican being pretty well represented.

Edited February 7, 2008 by EulaM

[Big Beat Steve]

The track listing reads like something thrown together from Shorty's features with the Woody Herman and Stan Kenton bands (hence the 40s starting date) and his own Giants recordings for RCA and Capitol plus a few obscurities such as two tracks from that Boots Brown & His Blockbusters LP for Groove.

I'd say in today's world and with so many collectors apparently saving every penny for their core interests and therefore exploring "side interests" by buying budget P.D. compilations only, this would be an OK starter for Shorty Rogers newbies but if you want to have a more comprehensive Rogers collection you'd end up duplicating everything everywhere else.

The overall compilation reeks of a typical case of another compiler taking advantage of material that is in the "Public Domain" now by European valid standards. Nothing basically wrong with that (a law is a law) but this "normally" would make the "usual (U.S.) suspects" cry out loud about ripping off artists (well, mostly labels, ain't it?) if this had come from the "Andorran thieves". So how about it, fellas, want to have another go at THIS label? :D

BTW, I am also glad to see Sandi (Eula) posting here. Her posts over at AAJ are always fascinating reading stuff.

But say, a fluegelhorn certainly is no cornet??

Edited February 7, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[EulaM]

BTW, I am also glad to see Sandi (Eula) posting here. Her posts over at AAJ are always fascinating reading stuff.

But say, a fluegelhorn certainly is no cornet??

Thanks for the kind words, they're appreciated.

I know nothing about the horns other than what I see written about them, that is, other than it was always called a coronet, cornet or flugelhorn (the later being the soprano version of the cornet they' say and it's said either is acceptable, where I see on google, and in other searches, they're said to not be).

When Shorty would be introduced, if that nicety was even done, usually they just played, so introductions were rare, but if he had his cornet with him someone from the bandstand would would usually talk to the audience to let us know we were in for a treat as he was carrying in his cornet that day or night. That was a truism for sure, as we really were, and at that time Shorty was thought to be the very best at playing it.

I do see it being called a flugelhorn quite often, maybe it's a regional thing. One is different? Most of us don't know what that difference would be, we non musicians, we're just the casual, just out to enjoy the music fan, we aren't into dissecting what was being played as a true student of jazz, and it's instruments would be.

Edited February 8, 2008 by EulaM

[Big Beat Steve]

What I meant to say is that a CORNET (not corOnet which just might be something else, I didn't check) is a sort of slightly shorter trumpet (as played by very early jazz musicians) whereas a fluegelhorn definitely is larger than a trumpet so a fluegelhorn cannot be a cornet.

But that's a side note only.

[analogak]

Most of us don't know what that difference would be, we non musicians, we're just the casual, just out to enjoy the music fan, we aren't into dissecting what was being played as a true student of jazz, and it's instruments would be.

euala, i think you just spelled cornet wrong. a coronet is something completely different. i think it is a crown (used in the penguin guide to show the writers favorite albums. nothing wrong with a mispelling...but then you went into this schpeil and i would disagree with you particularly on the above statement. i think even non-musician jazz listeners take an interest in the instrumentation they are hearing. i don't know how casual we are talking here, but i think once you start listening to jazz you are going to ask yourself what you liked and disliked about particular tunes so you can find more of what you liked and a lot of time this might come down to the instruments being played. maybe you hear a particular sound you like and you find out it is a bass clarinet. then you are probably going to look for more albums with bass clarinet on them. or maybe you hear an album with a piercingly annoying soprano sax solo on it. you might avoid soprano sax from then on.

[clifford_thornton]

Yes, knowing the instrument is very important.

I play - or did play for a long time - the cello. I always hated being asked if it was a bass, even though I also loved the bass. Funny, they never asked if my violin was a guitar...

[Teasing the Korean]

Can we please get beyond the letter "O" and be grateful that Sandi is posting here?

Edited February 8, 2008 by Teasing the Korean

[EulaM]

Can we please get beyond the letter "O" and be grateful that Sandi is posting here?

Thanks, TtK, appreciate your take on all of this, but I've looked it up and it's said that each spelling and designation is correct.

I keep seeing it spelled differently and thought well, I did it wrong again but then there will be the the three ways of telling you what a Coronet, Cornet, or one which is oftentimes called a Fluegel horn is, they say all ways of talking about them is correct. Do I have fluegel horn correct, ha.

I just know I saw Shorty and Clark and a few other fellows play this instrument and the sound is wonderful, whatever you choose to call it, whichever is correct. The tone in the right hands is so pure.

We took an interest in what was being played, alto, soprano, bass, etc, but we never learned what the mouth pieces were, or who made what, etc. We were fans but not students. It didn't decrease our appreciation of the music, not in the least. We just didn't study theory, brands and such. There wasn't the time or the need in our minds.

My biggest mistake on this board is thinking it was Anthony Braxton who was playing the Contra Bass at the Lighthouse, as it couldn't have been as they say he was born in the 1940's, that would have made him about ten.

We did see it being played there, but only through the port hole windows on the Dutch doors, as it was an invitation only event as it hadn't been played anywhere in ages, and so it was deep pocket sponsors, musicians and their wives, or best friends, and others in the music business who were invited, not any of us local kids who were so excited about it could go. Like I said earlier, the town was abuzz about it, but none of us, who lived there got to see or hear it happen, at least not from the inside, only from the outside looking in; no one who lived there, other than the in-house musicians could get in. This was in the mid to late 50's. Does anyone know who played it during this time frame? A lanky black musician, was who was entrusted with it during that time, and I'd say he was in his mid to late 20's. Could be wrong, but that's how old he looked to me. The fellow playing, as I understood it after so many years, didn't own it, and he was entrusted with it's care as the owners believed he would promote it in the best way. He had played mostly in the east if I remember correctly. I don't know why I got it in my head that it was Anthony Braxton, perhaps from another article and that implanted that in my mind. But we did get to see it and hear it from the sidewalk. At that time, it was a rare event.

Edited February 8, 2008 by EulaM

[Big Beat Steve]

This is intriguing ... as it touches language matters, it seems.

What exactly is a "contra bass"? I know in my own language (German) "Kontrabass" simply is the word for an upright bass, bass fiddle or however you'd care to call it.

To understand the peculiarity of this musician I'd certainly like to know if we are talking about yet another type of bass, i.e. neither upright bass nor cello, maybe something in between?

But to take a wide shot at guessing the identity of this musician, could it have been Leroy Vinnegar?

Re- cornet, and this is going to be my last comment on it, I still am baffled. I know what a fluegelhorn is and looks like but still I cannot see how this relates to the cornet as played by King Oliver, young Louis Armstrong, later on by Bobby Hackett, and others. Their cornet definitely is smaller than a trumpet, whereas all fluegelhorn-wielding pictures of Shorty Rogers I have ever seen make it look larger than a trumpet (a bit like a bass trumpet as played by Swedish jazz musician Leppe Sundewall in the 50s but possibly a bit shorter than a bass trumpet).

Yes, you can get carried away on tiny details like this ...

Maybe some musician reading this can clarify these matters once and for all.

And yes, Sandi, please hang around and share more memories from the Lighthouse years. And (as already suggested over at AAJ), did you ever consider gathering your personal memoirs from that era into a book? Eye/earwitness accounts like this should be very, very interesting!

Edited February 8, 2008 by Big Beat Steve

[thomastreichler]

This is a cornet:

This is a fluegelhorn:

This is a trumpet:

[Swinging Swede]

Yes, but we want a picture of a coronet!

[thomastreichler]

Yes, but we want a picture of a coronet!

Here you go: