John L Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I actually like the Coltrane-influenced Art Pepper better than the earlier one. I only saw Sonny Stitt once. It was only a few months before his death. He was chain smoking while playing and going through the speedy bop motions more or less on auto pilot. It was still a bit thrilling to see him. Sort of. I had mixed feelings about it at the time, and still do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caravan Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Saw Stitt three times (perhaps I'm forgetting some....). In 1964, on alto only, with McGhee, J.J., Bishop, Potter, Klook; in 1971, both alto and tenor, with Dizzy, Winding, Monk, McKibbon, Blakey; and in 1975, on tenor only, with Dexter, Philly, and local (Dutch) piano and bass. On each occasion Stitt was blowing adequately but not spectacularly. He was no match for Dexter, but Stitt tried hard. Cecil Taylor was in the audience, digging Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I'd like to speak with somebody who saw him playing with that road band that him & Gene Ammons had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 ... and in 1975, on tenor only, with Dexter, Philly, and local (Dutch) piano and bass. On each occasion Stitt was blowing adequately but not spectacularly. He was no match for Dexter, but Stitt tried hard. Cecil Taylor was in the audience, digging Philly. Dexter and Stitt appeared in Rotterdam on June 20, 1976 (piano and bass were Rein de Graaff and Henk Haverhoek)... that's what my info says. An hour or so of it was on radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I actually like the Coltrane-influenced Art Pepper better than the earlier one. I only saw Sonny Stitt once. It was only a few months before his death. He was chain smoking while playing and going through the speedy bop motions more or less on auto pilot. It was still a bit thrilling to see him. Sort of. I had mixed feelings about it at the time, and still do. It may have been that the example of Coltrane gave Art "permission" to open up his playing in a way that was not possible for the early Art, but was sorely needed later to express what was going on in his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) This is a correct analysis, re: Pepper, who had not the slightest reason to measure his dick against Sonny at that point ((or any other)). Also, if folks have not yet testified re: Jug (a-lug, Jug-a-lug) & Stitt road band, why might that be? Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how many of ya'll have heard this Teddy Edwards, from 1980? Ready for Teddy I actually like the Coltrane-influenced Art Pepper better than the earlier one. I only saw Sonny Stitt once. It was only a few months before his death. He was chain smoking while playing and going through the speedy bop motions more or less on auto pilot. It was still a bit thrilling to see him. Sort of. I had mixed feelings about it at the time, and still do. It may have been that the example of Coltrane gave Art "permission" to open up his playing in a way that was not possible for the early Art, but was sorely needed later to express what was going on in his life. Edited October 16, 2011 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also, if folks have not yet testified re: Jug (a-lug, Jug-a-lug) & Stitt road band, why might that be? Simply because there aren't that many people on Organissimo who are old enough to have heard that band? Stereojack perhaps. As for early and late Pepper -- several things. First, truly mature Pepper doesn't arrive until the mid-1950s, by which time he'd been a figure of some note for a good while with Kenton. Second, IMO the perilous equilibrium that Pepper reached from then until his incarceration in San Quentin (on the Tampa Quartet album and "Smack Up" on Contemporary, to name two favorites he recorded as a leader) is enough to make him a jazz immortal. Finally, moved though I am by some of the more overtly expressionistic post-return Pepper, and as much as I understand the necessity for him of what he was trying to do during those years, no way that compares to what he achieved on the Tampa "Besame Mucho" and "I Surrender Dear" (both of which can be found on You Tube). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9INTajBBis8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV8-h8HhvQM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 From "Smack Up": Staggering Pepper and Warne Marsh from 1956 (their exchanges at the end!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU2tDmTM8M0&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 More brilliant Pepper and Marsh, from Ted Brown's "Freewheeling" (Ted doesn't solo on this track): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMhsHhDtsxY Bill Perkins and Pepper (the balance of Art's solo): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also, if folks have not yet testified re: Jug (a-lug, Jug-a-lug) & Stitt road band, why might that be? Simply because there aren't that many people on Organissimo who are old enough to have heard that band? Stereojack perhaps. Who goes to strip joints and gin mills anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also, if folks have not yet testified re: Jug (a-lug, Jug-a-lug) & Stitt road band, why might that be? Simply because there aren't that many people on Organissimo who are old enough to have heard that band? Stereojack perhaps. I'm not that old! I did see a reunion of Stitt and Ammons in 1970 at the Monterey Jazz Festival, right after Ammons got out of the joint. Stitt was playing the Varitone, and Jug carved him! I saw Stitt several times, and for my money, he usually played well. The last time I saw him was in 1982 in New Orleans, and I recall vividly reacting emotionally to a lovely rendition of Stardust, a tune that he had probably played a thousand times. He was dead a few months later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Re: Art Pepper I certainly understand the the point Larry makes above but would add that the very best of the late-period work re-imagines a similar equilibrium in more contemporary terms and, if anything, sounds more perilous than before, gaining an added charge (at least for me) because the stakes seem so damn high. For my taste, my favorite Art is the greatest late stuff -- especially "Today" from 1978 with Cowell, McBee, Haynes. But I sure as hell don't want to live without "You'd Be So Nice to Come Home To" from "Meets the Rhythm Section" and the rest of the best '55-'60 stuff. Luckily I don't have to. I wish post-71 Pepper was more consistent than it is and I recognize the issues. But if the gun is at my head, I'm grabbing "Today" first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I saw Stitt several times, and for my money, he usually played well. The last time I saw him was in 1982 in New Orleans, and I recall vividly reacting emotionally to a lovely rendition of Stardust, a tune that he had probably played a thousand times. He was dead a few months later. He was captured there, too... with Lockjaw, Walton, Buster Williams and drummer James Black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Yep, I have that one: Sonny Stitt - Eddie Lockjaw Davis New Orleans Jazz Fest. 5/8/82 1. The Song Is You 11:03 2. S'Wonderful 8:47 3. Sonny's Blues 13:14 4. Stardust / On A Clear Day 10:28 5. Just Friends 7:59 Sonny Stitt - Tenor & Alto Eddie Lockjaw Davis - Tenor Cedar Walton - Piano Buster Williams - Bass James Black - Drums It's pretty freakin' good too! Sonny Stitt Smiles Edited October 16, 2011 by marcello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm not that old! Sorry, Jack. Just a guess because I know you've been around for a while. BTW, who among us here is the oldest? I'm 69 -- surely it can't be me? Ted O'Reilly, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 post-return Pepper played great when he just played. But his attempt to be "modern" was just little pointless asides, because, like a lot of others from his musical generation, he did not really "get" the concept of the kind of poly-tonality Trane was getting at. For Pepper these gestures were like little, blind interruptions, understandable psychic expressions, perhaps, but never focused enough to get him where he wanted to go. But when I heard him he just played, digged more deeply into the kind of music he knew, and he was brilliant. And the Vanguard stuff is just strangely torturous, really, to my ears, narcissistic in its self focus. just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 For certain Chris Albertson is older than I am, but is he the oldest here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Perhaps Donald Brown, the gentleman who was at the Massey Hall Concert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm not that old! Sorry, Jack. Just a guess because I know you've been around for a while. BTW, who among us here is the oldest? I'm 69 -- surely it can't be me? Ted O'Reilly, perhaps? I'm 66. Started going out to hear live jazz in 1963. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 For certain Chris Albertson is older than I am, but is he the oldest here? He's older than me - I'm 70. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I think Mr. Burns is the oldest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Poor Sonny Stitt! Even a thread dedicated to him turns into a thread not about him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 that's what happens when you'll work with any pickup rhythm section you meet on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 that's what happens when you'll work with any pickup rhythm section you meet on the street. I think that goes for just about any "famous" jazz musician who ever emigrated to Europe!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 that's what happens when you'll work with any pickup rhythm section you meet on the street. I think that goes for just about any "famous" jazz musician who ever emigrated to Europe!!! Except that many of those emigrated jazzmen unjustly forgotten or neglected in their country of origin turned out some darn good (if unpretentious) music in Europe because in many cases they were backed by truly sympathetic rhythm sections or bands that really played FOR (and supported) their "star" soloist instead of indulging in "every man for himself" delusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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