Shrdlu Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Freddie Redd, "Shades of Redd" did nothing for me. I like these kinds of honest dissing threads. Acts as a counterweight to all the passed around on reissues. I'm sorry to hear that you don't like this one, CS. It has given me a great deal of listening pleasure. Wait awhile, and perhaps give it another shot later. It is more than just a blowing date, and, also, Jackie and Tina worked so well together. Redd isn't all that spectacular as a soloist; it's his compositions and arrangements that are the thing. I guess you could say he plays "bandleader's piano", or "composer's piano", or whatever the phrase is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Redd isn't all that spectacular as a soloist; it's his compositions and arrangements that are the thing. I guess you could say he plays "bandleader's piano", or "composer's piano", or whatever the phrase is. That's what I felt after listening through the Mosaic. Especially the last previously unissued session is strange - this has been discussed before. I miss some some harmonic/melodic focus in Redd's playing, it sounds all dissonant to me. I keep it for Tina Brooks, in the first place, and his compostions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 In my never ending effort to alienate as many as possible, I feel compelled to leap in here and say that The All-Seeing Eye is my favorite Shorter disc. Oh well... Hell, mine is ODYSSEY OF ISKA (of the BNs, anyway), so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 In my never ending effort to alienate as many as possible, I feel compelled to leap in here and say that The All-Seeing Eye is my favorite Shorter disc. Oh well... That's why I'm keeping it for the forseeable future. The people who LIKE All-Seeing Eye seem to usually like it a whole LOT. Maybe someday I'll hear what they're hearing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Nope, don't miss my Adam's Apple TOCJ; I think both the JRVG and the RVG sound better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 In my never ending effort to alienate as many as possible, I feel compelled to leap in here and say that The All-Seeing Eye is my favorite Shorter disc. Oh well... Me too!! Or, well, at least "All Seeing Eye" was my all-time-favorite Shorter disc, until I heard "Etcetera". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Hell, mine is ODYSSEY OF ISKA (of the BNs, anyway), so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Now that's just plain weird!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Hell, ODYSSEY OF ISKA is my favorite opera too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 I am absolutely stunned by the negative comments about Shades of Redd, All Seeing Eye and Star Bright. Any person with experience playing a wind instrument should be blown away by these discs, let alone listeners. It makes me question WTF you guys listen for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Chuck, as a non-musician, I am intrigued by your comments. Can you elucidate as to how "experience playing a wind instrument" would alter how one interprets the sounds? As a parallel, when I was first studying abstract art I thought it was crap compared to representational art. Then I learned to read what abstract artists were communicating and to pick abstract art apart, and it became much more enjoyable to look at. I can imagine listening to an album like THE ALL-SEEING EYE requires that one have a better understanding of the vocabulary with which Shorter was communicating. I have had THE ALL-SEEING EYE for a short while, and I have found it less immediately accessible than other Shorter albums. Still, there is something there that says "keep this one" to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzdog Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Re; All Seeing Eye... Glad I sold the Conn way back when. What I am even more happy about is the fact that it is available again, as an RVG. Gives me a chance to revisit the album as soon as I feel compelled to. Problem is that I dont really feel compelled. I've also sold the Etcetera Conn. I guess there was something about those two that didn't feel right to me. I've had the chance to go back and listen to more Wayne in the interim, and I think these are both albums that need to be delved into, not just to have on as I am fiddling about, downloading stuff off the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted October 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I love "Star Bright." "I'll Close My Eyese" on that is a killer for me. But that's half the fun of threads like these. It's no crime not to dig "The All Seeing Eye" or a Baby Face Blue Note (Blasphemy!!!). Anyway, maybe it shoud be...but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Sonny Red's OUT OF THE BLUE is one of the weakest Blue Note recordings ever - if not for the great rhythm section salvaging things it would be a total disaster. I actively avoided anything with Red on it for several years after hearing that one, and then was later pleasantly surprised when some of his work elsewhere (to my ears, he's much better on Byrd's SLOW DRAG for example, and even better on a Bill Hardman date for Savoy) kind of grabbed me as much better. Interestingly, the "extra" date on OUT OF THE BLUE is a bit stronger - the originally issued one, though, is painful when Red is playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I liked the out of the blue set but for me the worst disappointment was the Kenny Clarke and Francis Boland set which I barely listened to. I rememeber it took me ages to find and then when it arrived it was so annoying. Never sold it but was sorely tempted as it was an expensive TOCJ at the time. Another non score for me was a surprise and was Jimmy Smith Crazy Baby which I thought would be a cooker but I rarely listen to it now. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I liked the out of the blue set but for me the worst disappointment was the Kenny Clarke and Francis Boland set which I barely listened to. I rememeber it took me ages to find and then when it arrived it was so annoying. Never sold it but was sorely tempted as it was an expensive TOCJ at the time. Now that is one I go back to quite often with joy and pride that I was clever enough to buy a Japanese LP when it was freshly reissued. I like Boland's rhythmic writing on this one very very much! If you wanna get rid of it, drop me a PM, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Sonny Red's OUT OF THE BLUE is one of the weakest Blue Note recordings ever - if not for the great rhythm section salvaging things it would be a total disaster. I actively avoided anything with Red on it for several years after hearing that one, and then was later pleasantly surprised when some of his work elsewhere (to my ears, he's much better on Byrd's SLOW DRAG for example, and even better on a Bill Hardman date for Savoy) kind of grabbed me as much better. Interestingly, the "extra" date on OUT OF THE BLUE is a bit stronger - the originally issued one, though, is painful when Red is playing. Not to offend you personally, DrJ, but sometimes I think the Blue Note myth catches up on us and we simply expect a little too much. We tend to forget that not all Blue Note sessions yielded ***** albums - Sonny Red, or John Jenkins or whoever was a young cat cutting his teeth when the album was made and thankful for the opportunity. I know this is close to blasphemy for most of you, but I find Sonny Red's tone much more listenable than Jackie Mac ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I still have never quite warmed all the way up to 2 discs that are generally considered indisputable BN classics: Wayne Shorter, SPEAK NO EVIL Herbie Hancock, MAIDEN VOYAGE These two have just never engaged me as much as, say, EMPYREAN ISLES and THE SOOTHSAYER or ETCETERA. Discs I admire, but do not *love*. Not even the new RVG masterings have helped my appreciation of these discs. MAIDEN VOYAGE in particular still sounds cloudy and slightly pallid to me. I have the same feeling about Bobby Hutcherson's OBLIQUE and HAPPENINGS, but I'm slowly coming around to them. Hmmmm, Herbie Hancock seems the common denominator here. I'm not sure my MY POINT OF VIEW was given the RVG treatment. An album that for me never quite gels, depsite the presence of some great players. I think it's let down by Herbie material. Yet I love his work on Tony Williams' SPRING, MOncur's SOME OTHER STUFF, Green's FEELIN' THE SPIRIT and Donald Byrd's ROYAL FLUSH, among other BN sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I liked the out of the blue set but for me the worst disappointment was the Kenny Clarke and Francis Boland set which I barely listened to. I rememeber it took me ages to find and then when it arrived it was so annoying. Never sold it but was sorely tempted as it was an expensive TOCJ at the time. Now that is one I go back to quite often with joy and pride that I was clever enough to buy a Japanese LP when it was freshly reissued. I like Boland's rhythmic writing on this one very very much! If you wanna get rid of it, drop me a PM, please! That's the Golden 8 album right? I have always been very curious about that one. What's it like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 What can I say about ASE? It just didn't move me and I found it virtually unlistenable. I'm still grabbed the AMG description: "not your basic bop and blues." My favorite Shorter? JuJu. That one I loved. BTW, the Clarke Boland is not technically a Blue Note reissue. I remember reading that Alfred Lion bought the rights to the recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 (edited) Well, I believe that the Golden Eight WAS released on Blue Note, and should not be considered a non Blue Note, though it was not a Blue Note production (it was a Gigi Campi production). It was leased, or bought, not sure which. . . bought I think, as it has been reissued by Blue Note Japan. I like it a lot! Clake-Boland Big Band and small group stuff is my meat! Edited October 13, 2003 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed S Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Never heard of the Golden Eight release. I just checked Half.com and bagged a copy for $14.99. I'm not sure if that's a good price or not but what the heck. Looking forward to hearing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted October 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Sonny Red's OUT OF THE BLUE is one of the weakest Blue Note recordings ever - if not for the great rhythm section salvaging things it would be a total disaster. I actively avoided anything with Red on it for several years after hearing that one, and then was later pleasantly surprised when some of his work elsewhere (to my ears, he's much better on Byrd's SLOW DRAG for example, and even better on a Bill Hardman date for Savoy) kind of grabbed me as much better. Interestingly, the "extra" date on OUT OF THE BLUE is a bit stronger - the originally issued one, though, is painful when Red is playing. Dude. "Stay As Sweet As You Are" from OOTB may be one of the greatest Blue Note performances ever!!!! I love Sonny Red's "Out of the Blue." But then again, I love disagreeing on this stuff too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Freddie Redd, "Shades of Redd" did nothing for me. I like these kinds of honest dissing threads. Acts as a counterweight to all the  passed around on reissues. I'm sorry to hear that you don't like this one, CS. It has given me a great deal of listening pleasure. Wait awhile, and perhaps give it another shot later. It is more than just a blowing date, and, also, Jackie and Tina worked so well together. Redd isn't all that spectacular as a soloist; it's his compositions and arrangements that are the thing. I guess you could say he plays "bandleader's piano", or "composer's piano", or whatever the phrase is. Thanks for the comments Shrdlu. Unfortunately, I no longer have the disc. Gave it/sold it/traded it: can't remember now. It is definitely in the realms of the possible that I haven't given many sessions enough of a chance. This could be one of them, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 I would highly recommend "Think" to Lonnie Smith fans. I had this on an old BN cassette for years and it is a definitely ass-shaker  Lee Morgan and Fathead Newman are the horns. After loving this for years, I tracked down "Turning Point" ... and yeah I was disappointed too. Different strokes... I bought "Think" as much for my interest in Lee Morgan as any other reason, and was relatively disappointed by it. It's fairly good at times, but Lee sounds like he's half-asleep on the date (at leat as I recall - but I haven't listened to it in 10-12 months - which is about when I first got it). But I got the TOCJ of "Turning Point" about a month ago (my first time ever hearing it) --- and Lee's playing, and 'overall' too - I think I much prefer "Turning Point" over "Think". But I'll have to dig "Think" back out and see if I missed something. "Think!" is great stuff, Rooster! Had to play it a bunch of times before it grew on me, but now I love it. For my part, I couldn't stand "All Seeing Eye." That's why Rooster and I make great trading partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connoisseur series500 Posted October 13, 2003 Report Share Posted October 13, 2003 Sonny Red's OUT OF THE BLUE is one of the weakest Blue Note recordings ever - if not for the great rhythm section salvaging things it would be a total disaster. I actively avoided anything with Red on it for several years after hearing that one, and then was later pleasantly surprised when some of his work elsewhere (to my ears, he's much better on Byrd's SLOW DRAG for example, and even better on a Bill Hardman date for Savoy) kind of grabbed me as much better. Interestingly, the "extra" date on OUT OF THE BLUE is a bit stronger - the originally issued one, though, is painful when Red is playing. Dude. "Stay As Sweet As You Are" from OOTB may be one of the greatest Blue Note performances ever!!!! I love Sonny Red's "Out of the Blue." But then again, I love disagreeing on this stuff too. I also like Sonny Red, "Out of the Blue." Took me a few listenings first. I was about to trade it away and gave it one last shot, then it all clicked. I now like it very much. SS: you and I like all the same stuff. You better not live within a 1,000 mile radius of my shopping places! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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