crisp Posted June 17, 2009 Report Posted June 17, 2009 Yes, it made sense to leave out the vocals from the Goodman set because these are largely available in other editions. But applying this strategy to the Shaw leaves a lot of material falling by the wayside. It's frustrating. Quote
J.A.W. Posted June 17, 2009 Report Posted June 17, 2009 Yes, it made sense to leave out the vocals from the Goodman set because these are largely available in other editions. But applying this strategy to the Shaw leaves a lot of material falling by the wayside. It's frustrating. Why not tell Mosaic what you think? It may still not be too late Quote
gmonahan Posted June 17, 2009 Report Posted June 17, 2009 Yes, it made sense to leave out the vocals from the Goodman set because these are largely available in other editions. But applying this strategy to the Shaw leaves a lot of material falling by the wayside. It's frustrating. Why not tell Mosaic what you think? It may still not be too late My guess is that this one is in the can. This is big band only, right? It would be nice to have the Grammercy Fives in the set. I always thought that was a particularly interesting and cool group! greg mo Quote
jazzbo Posted June 17, 2009 Report Posted June 17, 2009 I have Bluebird records of the Artie Shaw material. If they delete all the vocals. . . well in my opinion we won't be missing much. . . . Quote
Larry Kart Posted June 17, 2009 Report Posted June 17, 2009 I have Bluebird records of the Artie Shaw material. If they delete all the vocals. . . well in my opinion we won't be missing much. . . . You've got no time for Helen Forrest?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InpdiszyOaQ Wonderfully musical, sexy singer, arguably the best of the female big band vocalists. Quote
jazzbo Posted June 17, 2009 Report Posted June 17, 2009 I've got quite a bit of Helen Forrest, she's fine. . . but I don't really need her work with Shaw at this point. Especially if it is going to add 3 or more cds to a large set Just being honest. There are other singers, not as nice to hear as Helen . . . . Quote
ghost of miles Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Posted June 18, 2009 Has there been a good single-CD comp of Forrest's work with the Shaw orchestra? Right now (judging from what I see on Amazon) it looks like the best bet is to get the Jasmine box, which devotes nearly all of disc 1 to those recordings...surprised Collector's Choice hasn't put something out. Been awhile since I listened to it, but I seem to recall some good live Forrest w/Shaw tracks on this Hindsight box: King of the Clarinet 1938-39 ...which is a set I'd enthusiastically recommend to anybody who's a Shaw fan, whether they care for vocals or not. Quote
gmonahan Posted June 18, 2009 Report Posted June 18, 2009 Has there been a good single-CD comp of Forrest's work with the Shaw orchestra? Right now (judging from what I see on Amazon) it looks like the best bet is to get the Jasmine box, which devotes nearly all of disc 1 to those recordings...surprised Collector's Choice hasn't put something out. Been awhile since I listened to it, but I seem to recall some good live Forrest w/Shaw tracks on this Hindsight box: King of the Clarinet 1938-39 ...which is a set I'd enthusiastically recommend to anybody who's a Shaw fan, whether they care for vocals or not. I went looking too. CC has put out the Helen Forrest set with BG mentioned already and one with Harry James, but not one with Artie Shaw. I confess I'm sort of with Lon on this one. I'm not sure most of the vocals with Shaw are that essential, with the exception of those by Hot Lips Page, which I imagine the set will contain. Would be nice to have all the Forrest things, though. Of all the singers with Shaw, I think she was the best. greg mo Quote
tranemonk Posted June 19, 2009 Report Posted June 19, 2009 Got a question for you Shawites... Do you think this set would be a resonable/good intro to his work???? I'm on the fence on this one... debating whether I should spend my Father's Day gift certificate on this on Lester Young??? Quote
crisp Posted June 19, 2009 Report Posted June 19, 2009 Yes, it made sense to leave out the vocals from the Goodman set because these are largely available in other editions. But applying this strategy to the Shaw leaves a lot of material falling by the wayside. It's frustrating. Why not tell Mosaic what you think? It may still not be too late I have emailed Mosaic in the past regarding certain editorial decisions. I asked them to reconsider leaving the strings and vocals sessions off the Johnny Smith set, to no avail (it's still a stunning set). My gut feeling is that once they have set on a certain path it's probably not possible to divert them from it. Or are you implying that there might be some uncertainty on their part regarding the Shaw set? Quote
Matthew Posted June 19, 2009 Report Posted June 19, 2009 Got a question for you Shawites... Do you think this set would be a resonable/good intro to his work???? I'm on the fence on this one... debating whether I should spend my Father's Day gift certificate on this on Lester Young??? For an introduction, I would suggest you buy the ten cd collection Artie Shaw: Begin The Beguine, it's way cheaper than the Mosaic, probably contains a lot of what's on the Mosaic also -- though a word of warning: I find the first cd unlistenable due to sound issues, but the others sound good. Then, if you like what you hear, go for the Mosaic. Which is a long way of saying: I would buy the Lester Young first. Quote
ghost of miles Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Posted June 20, 2009 Got a question for you Shawites... Do you think this set would be a resonable/good intro to his work???? I'm on the fence on this one... debating whether I should spend my Father's Day gift certificate on this on Lester Young??? If you can find it for a reasonable price, I'd strongly recommend the 5-CD Self-Portrait box, which covers Shaw's entire career on record and has good notes from Richard Sudhalter and Artie himself. Quote
JETman Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 From the Mosaic website: MOSAIC LIMITED EDITION BOXED SETS: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions #244 (7 CDs) - $119 (not yet available for preorder- Release date: August, 2009) The famed clarinetist, bandleader and author Artie Shaw was a driven individual whose vision to furnish music or literature became a never ending quest for perfection. "He was", as writer John McDonoughexamined, "a fascinating figure of sex appeal, charisma, and good looks...born media bait who could neither control nor escape the effects of his appeal". Yet with all of his complex eccentricities, his perception of how his music should be played and the prodigious method of his fluid clarinet, captured the music world's ear and left us with a vast collection of hard-core swing and exquisite ballads. He knew what he wanted and his selection of dedicated sidemen made for some stirring recordings. At various times, his band included the cream of swing era musicians: Buddy Rich, Tony Pastor, Jack Jenney, Billy Butterfield, Georgie Auld, Hot Lips Page, Roy Eldridge, Dodo Marmarosa and Barney Kessel. His all-star team of arrangers included Ray Conniff, Jerry Gray, Lennie Hayton, Eddie Sauter and William Grant Still. Barney Bigard, a staple of the Ellington band from 1927-1942 stated that Shaw made “…the clarinet sound unusually beautiful in the upper register. The guy could execute like mad…(and) I like Artie for the things that were almost impossible to do on the clarinet.” His solo efforts were clean, clear and soaring with a strong and polished attack that was full of melodic invention. A weaving of ideas that perfectly connected one thought to another. A prime example of this would the Victor release of “Star Dust” which has been inducted in the Grammy Hall of Fame category and is considered to be one of the finest jazz solos captured on record. Though not a complete work of everything Shaw recorded during the years 1938-1945, Mosaic Records has culled all of his instrumental big band and small group sides for the Bluebird and Victor labels in a 7 CD Limited Edition Box Set. A number of alternate takes are provided, rare photos and an updated Shaw discography are highlights but none greater than the liner notes which are provided by the much in demand author, Down Beat contributor and friend of Shaw, John McDonough, whose insights greatly enhance the listening landscape and further explore the Shaw psyche. Quote
tranemonk Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D Quote
gmonahan Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 From the Mosaic website: MOSAIC LIMITED EDITION BOXED SETS: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions #244 (7 CDs) - $119 (not yet available for preorder- Release date: August, 2009) The famed clarinetist, bandleader and author Artie Shaw was a driven individual whose vision to furnish music or literature became a never ending quest for perfection. "He was", as writer John McDonoughexamined, "a fascinating figure of sex appeal, charisma, and good looks...born media bait who could neither control nor escape the effects of his appeal". Yet with all of his complex eccentricities, his perception of how his music should be played and the prodigious method of his fluid clarinet, captured the music world's ear and left us with a vast collection of hard-core swing and exquisite ballads. He knew what he wanted and his selection of dedicated sidemen made for some stirring recordings. At various times, his band included the cream of swing era musicians: Buddy Rich, Tony Pastor, Jack Jenney, Billy Butterfield, Georgie Auld, Hot Lips Page, Roy Eldridge, Dodo Marmarosa and Barney Kessel. His all-star team of arrangers included Ray Conniff, Jerry Gray, Lennie Hayton, Eddie Sauter and William Grant Still. Barney Bigard, a staple of the Ellington band from 1927-1942 stated that Shaw made “…the clarinet sound unusually beautiful in the upper register. The guy could execute like mad…(and) I like Artie for the things that were almost impossible to do on the clarinet.” His solo efforts were clean, clear and soaring with a strong and polished attack that was full of melodic invention. A weaving of ideas that perfectly connected one thought to another. A prime example of this would the Victor release of “Star Dust” which has been inducted in the Grammy Hall of Fame category and is considered to be one of the finest jazz solos captured on record. Though not a complete work of everything Shaw recorded during the years 1938-1945, Mosaic Records has culled all of his instrumental big band and small group sides for the Bluebird and Victor labels in a 7 CD Limited Edition Box Set. A number of alternate takes are provided, rare photos and an updated Shaw discography are highlights but none greater than the liner notes which are provided by the much in demand author, Down Beat contributor and friend of Shaw, John McDonough, whose insights greatly enhance the listening landscape and further explore the Shaw psyche. Yeah, I just got the email. Good to know it will include the Gramercy Five material--probably in much better sound than the single disc RCA compilation. At seven cds, I can understand why Mosaic felt it had to leave off the vocals (but Lips better be there!) greg mo Quote
Hot Ptah Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D If you don't already have the Lester Young material, it is essential. Quote
J.A.W. Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D If you don't already have the Lester Young material, it is essential. Agreed. Quote
tranemonk Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 My sole hestitation is that I have the Lester Young Verve box which I hardly play... and the Count Basie Live Roulette... which rarely gets played.... :unsure: :unsure: I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D If you don't already have the Lester Young material, it is essential. Agreed. Quote
jazzbo Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 If you sold the Basie set you'd finance a few other sets. It's in relatively high demand. Also, there's a chance you'd enjoy the Pres of the Mosaic set more than the Pres of the Verve set. (I guess that's possible, I love all Pres.) Quote
tranemonk Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 Hmmmm... you've got me thinking... I've never sold a Mosaic... (until now... I'm about to donate the Chico Hamilton to my local library)... At the moment I'm giving the digital version of the Basie Live set another go-round... The thing that originally turned me off about it was the dozen or or versions of One O'Clock Jump... :angry: :angry: What makes you think I'll like the Lester-Basie set better than the Lester Verve box?? Or should I take a deep Basie plunge and get the Basie Verve Studio Sessions??? I'm really confused.... :blink: If you sold the Basie set you'd finance a few other sets. It's in relatively high demand. Also, there's a chance you'd enjoy the Pres of the Mosaic set more than the Pres of the Verve set. (I guess that's possible, I love all Pres.) Quote
J.A.W. Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) My sole hestitation is that I have the Lester Young Verve box which I hardly play... and the Count Basie Live Roulette... which rarely gets played.... :unsure: :unsure: I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D If you don't already have the Lester Young material, it is essential. Agreed. You can't compare Lester Young and Count Basie's 1930s recordings and their 1950s stuff. As was said elsewhere on this board months ago it's apples and oranges. Edited June 23, 2009 by J.A.W. Quote
Hot Ptah Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) My sole hestitation is that I have the Lester Young Verve box which I hardly play... and the Count Basie Live Roulette... which rarely gets played.... :unsure: :unsure: I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D If you don't already have the Lester Young material, it is essential. Agreed. You can't compare Lester Young and Count Basie's 1930s recordings and their 1950s stuff. As was said elsewhere on this board months ago it's apples and oranges. His 1930s recordings are really, really good apples. I enjoy Lester Young's 1950s recordings. His 1930s recordings are compelling, great, monumental. Edited June 23, 2009 by Hot Ptah Quote
J.A.W. Posted June 23, 2009 Report Posted June 23, 2009 My sole hestitation is that I have the Lester Young Verve box which I hardly play... and the Count Basie Live Roulette... which rarely gets played.... :unsure: :unsure: I'm really torn between this and the Lester Young... I've got to figure out how to spend my Father's Day present.... :D :D If you don't already have the Lester Young material, it is essential. Agreed. You can't compare Lester Young and Count Basie's 1930s recordings and their 1950s stuff. As was said elsewhere on this board months ago it's apples and oranges. His 1930s recordings are really, really good apples. I enjoy Lester Young's 1950s recordings. His 1930s recordings are compelling, great, monumental. I completely agree about Young's 1930s recordings. Quote
jazzbo Posted June 24, 2009 Report Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) Here's how I rank the four sets as far as "reaching to listen". . . in order of times I'd reach: Pres Mosaic Baslie Live Roulette Mosaic Pres Verve Basie Decca Mosaic The early years of Pres are just amazing, music that always moves me. Edited June 24, 2009 by jazzbo Quote
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