Ahmad Jamal, Vindicated

[jazzbo]

(Comment deleted, thought better about it).

The first Jamal I ever hearsd was "Happy Moods" because somehow that lp got into the family collection before we left for Africa. I played that one over and over and over (another that I played over and over often right after it was "Bossa Nova USA" by Brubeck). The music on that lp still reaches out and grabs my imagination and pushes most of my pleasure buttons.

Edited October 22, 2010 by jazzbo

[Chuck Nessa]

(Comment deleted, thought better about it).

The first Jamal I ever hearsd was "Happy Moods" because somehow that lp got into the family collection before we left for Africa. I played that one over and over and over (another that I played over and over often right after it was "Bossa Nova USA" by Brubeck). The music on that lp still reaches out and grabs my imagination and pushes most of my pleasure buttons.

Too bad you deleted the rest - I thought it was "on the money".

"Happy Moods" was my first Jamal too. I was in high school and got it from the Columbia Record Club.

[kh1958]

Happy Moods is a wonderful LP, but I find most of the Mosaic set to be remarkably consistent.

The sound on the first LP is compromised, and I don't care for the strings session, but the rest is indeed a happy mood.

[JSngry]

I like Jamal's playing in the above video clip,

but it shows that nuance is sorely missing with the other musicians.

The percussion is, to my ears, awful -

it's as if someone had opened the side doors to the club

and invited the Hare Krṣnas inside.

Hey man, cell phone audio!

That was from earlier this year. Here we go, from 2005:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMprn3uDAVI

I love this shit, the timing, the float...it's almost like the Meters if they played in the clouds instead of from the earth (and that's a really horrid description, i know, but hey....maybe The Meters are like Jamal...or maybe they're both unique & so are you, and I'm full of shit. But I still love this... ).

[AllenLowe]

Just listened, and I gotta say it, I think it's a load of crap.

where's Moms when I need her?

Edited October 23, 2010 by AllenLowe

[paul secor]

Have to say that the previous clip did nothing for me, except make me feel like I wasted eight minutes of my life. Perhaps not a total waste, since I know I'll never listen to Ahmad Jamal again.

There seem to be many here who love his playing. They're not me and I'm not them - that's part of what makes all the different worlds of music we have.

[JSngry]

Damn near perfect.

[David Ayers]

Would you like any more ham in that ham sandwich?

I can enjoy Jamal the same way I can enjoy some Gene Harris. I suppose the difference is that Harris is (often) straightforward cheese and aimed at a, shall we say, less ept audience. Jamal is a better musican probably, but like Allen I feel quite resistant when large claims are made about his gentle noodling and dramatic pauses. That's entertainment, I suppose.

Ham and cheese in the same sammich? Now you're talking.

No-one heard Extensions then?

[Stereojack]

No-one heard Extensions then?

I've owned it for many years, and I like it.

I have no interest in joining this Jamal-bashing fest, however.

[AllenLowe]

aww c'mon we like company

[AllenLowe]

I humbly disagree - there is a difference between mannerism and style - and that, to me, is all mannerism.

For a welcome contrast listen to Count Basie play the piano - same basic concept of intermittent musical coloration - but his comments connect and add up to something. And they have a reason for being.

Edited October 23, 2010 by AllenLowe

[John L]

This thread has become a very interesting read. It almost scares me to continue reading. If the reason that I enjoy the Ahmad Jamal trio so much is due to the fact that I haven't given it enough thought, then I'm not sure that I want to give it any more thought.

[AllenLowe]

I know exactly what you mean - that's the way I feel about the Democratic Party.

Edited October 23, 2010 by AllenLowe

[paul secor]

For me, the big difference between Miles and Jamal is what comes between the "dramatic pauses".

[Free For All]

I like Jamal a lot- I've been enjoying the Mosaic box and other recordings, especially Chamber Music of the New Jazz. I saw the trio w/Idris Muhammad and James Cammack in concert a couple years ago and was thoroughly impressed by the swing, spontaneity and precision. I'm surprised by all the negativity here, but, as always, to each his/her own.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Free For All

[MomsMobley]

I'm surprised there's so much anti-Jamal feeling here. Visceral distate like Allen's is more understandable than the critiques I've seen so far...

Especially when so many people have and will again jerked off twinkletoes like Hank Jones and Tommy Flanagan, or can abide Oscar Peterson in any way but getting to Lester or Ben. Or fucking Jarrett and all his standards crap-- worst records DeJohnette ever made and who sucked out Peacock's brain? At least Eicher puts the money back into the label to real hot shit like Roscoe and Frank Martin (New Series).

Jamal consistently challenges both the fingersnappers and the phony 'progressives'-- but then I'll defend nearly all John Lewis too; he probably shouldn't been so nice to Gary Giddins but it mighta seemed politic at the time.

Jamal Means Unconquered!

For me, the big difference between Miles and Jamal is what comes between the "dramatic pauses".

Edited October 23, 2010 by MomsMobley

[mikeweil]

... I'm surprised by all the negativity here, but, as always, to each his/her own.

Same here ... but no thoughts whatsoever will spoil my enjoyment of the Jamal Trio. 

Saw him two years ago with Cammack and Muhammad and was slightly disappointed - I love the relaxed precision there was with Crosby and Fournier. That's one of the greatest kinds of trio playing I have ever heard. 

For me, the big difference between Miles and Jamal is what comes between the "dramatic pauses".

No it's the pauses themselves that make me wish Miles would stay away ... 

[AllenLowe]

now I'm feeling guilty. But I've tried to like I'm-Mad Jamal. I really have. I even went to see him in 1977. as a matter of fact I took a picture:

Edited October 23, 2010 by AllenLowe

[Christiern]

Leave Fritz alone!

[JSngry]

No-one heard Extensions then?

Know it well, actually. Like it just fine.

[JSngry]

Still not really sure what a "deeper jazz self" really is, but...

I can see how this poses any number of "critical problems" but I can also just as easily, at least, see how it also offers at least one pretty basic musical "solution" - it is what it is and really has no reason (to need/want) to be anything else.

Go 'head on, then!

[David Ayers]

Hm. I think Jarrett's version of Poinciana is rather good.

In fact I see it is on youtube (no video):

So how would people who love Jamal's trios compare them to others which haven't yet been dissed, such as Bill Evans'?

Edited October 23, 2010 by David Ayers

[The Red Menace]

I'm surprised there's so much anti-Jamal feeling here. Visceral distate like Allen's is more understandable than the critiques I've seen so far...

Especially when so many people have and will again jerked off twinkletoes like Hank Jones and Tommy Flanagan, or can abide Oscar Peterson in any way but getting to Lester or Ben. Or fucking Jarrett and all his standards crap-- worst records DeJohnette ever made and who sucked out Peacock's brain? At least Eicher puts the money back into the label to real hot shit like Roscoe and Frank Martin (New Series).

Jamal consistently challenges both the fingersnappers and the phony 'progressives'-- but then I'll defend nearly all John Lewis too; he probably shouldn't been so nice to Gary Giddins but it mighta seemed politic at the time.

Jamal Means Unconquered!

Comrade!!! You've obviously been hipped to Jakob Nielsen!!! It is a lovely style, no???

Edited October 24, 2010 by The Red Menace

[ghost of miles]

Regarding Jamal's famous use of space, would it be wrong to give a small nod of potential influence in Claude Thornhill's piano-playing direction?

[AllenLowe]

allright, so at 6 AM this morning I'm driving to work, and the local alt. radio station announces that it's time for:

AHMAD JAMAL.

Now normally I would switch the dial to either the smooth jazz or the hat act channel, but I figure, ok, let's give a listen, what's the worst that can happen? Maybe I've been missing something all these years. So play away, I'm Mud.

so I let it go, twisting my Saab through the morning traffic in the demented little city I live in, listening through the little speakers.

and I gotta say -

I STILL THINK IT'S CRAP. There is NOTHING there, just useless space, mannerism, gimmick, crap crap crap.

Even Brubeck, when he wants to, actually knows how to play, but Jamal is one of those rank amateurs who has decided he can substitute motion for action and get away with it.

so, I guess I took one for the team, because I'm still traumatized by how lousy his playing was.

Edited October 28, 2010 by AllenLowe