Year of the Iron Sheep

[David Ayers]

Ken McIntyre's UA titles were reissued by BN years ago along with lots of extra tracks.

Am I right in thinking that this upcoming reissue is the first time on CD for a separate issue of this title presumably with original artwork?

Rogert Kellaway's Stride! is there too, and there may be other novelties in the upcoming TOCJ listed at hmv.co.jp- I couldn't be sure. There's a few things there I have no idea what they are. The price is right, too.

Already listed by da bastids.

[bertrand]

Art Blakey's Golden Boy is on the list. Does this mean they found the tape???

Bertrand.

[brownie]

Am I right in thinking that this upcoming reissue is the first time on CD for a separate issue of this title presumably with original artwork?

Looks like it is! Great cover by Frank Gauna with a photo by Chuck Stewart!

I still have the original LP (great fan of McIntyre here).

[sidewinder]

I still have the original LP (great fan of McIntyre here).

Same here ! Have the 'Complete UA Sessions' doubletime CDs too - nice to see this out on original artwork.

[David Ayers]

I should say that the cover is posted by da bastids and is obviously an LP, so they are guessing the CD cover will be the same.

Any thoughts on the other upcoming TOCJ at the link to hmv.co.uk I provided?

[brownie]

Any thoughts on the other upcoming TOCJ at the link to hmv.co.uk I provided?

Nothing much really new except for a couple of Capitol albums (including Hawkins 'Gilded Hawk') and another reissue of part of the UA catalogue (plus that 'Year of the Iron Sheep').

Sorry to sound blasé but looks to me like the TOCJ people are going for another recycling of past reissues.

Will wait for the FreshSound people to really dig into long unavailable items (they are reissuing the Randy Weston 'Destry Rides Again' UA album that was left out of Weston's Mosaic Select!).

[romualdo]

There are a few on the list that take my fancy

Vi Redd (Bird Call), Monday night At Birdland 1 & 2, Blakey's Cu-Bop & Golden Boy, Byrd/Gryce Jazz Lab (Jubilee), Hawkins The Gilded Hawk (Capitol), Les McCann In NY & Sings (PJ)

Yes, some of these were released years ago, are deleted & go for higher prices on Amazon or have also been reissued by the Andorrans but I would prefer to get 24bit remasterings than "needle drops", especially with the way the Australian dollar is at present - hovering at parity with the $US & holding its own with the Yen

Have the UA Vi Redd Bird Call sessions ever had a digital release except for a few titles included on the Mighty Quinn Roy Ayers CD?

[AndrewHill]

Can anyone supply more details about Golden Boy? Was not aware of this session let alone that the tapes were lost.

[brownie]

Can anyone supply more details about Golden Boy?

Recorded in 1964 with: Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, tp Curtis Fuller, tb, Julius Watkins, french horn, Bill Barber, tuba, James Spaulding, as, Wayne Shorter, t, Charles Davis, bar, Cedar Walton, p, Reggie Workman, b, Art Blakey, dr.

Originall recorded for Colpix.

[Dan Gould]

Golden Boy was a Broadway musical starring Sammy Davis Jr. Arrangements by Wayne, Curtis, and Lee, if I recall. Worth hearing though on the short side.

[bertrand]

David Weiss can hopefully fill in with more details later since he studied this record carefully while preparing the first live perfromance of these arrangements, but here are some of the mysteries surrounding this session:

1) The date is probably 1963, not 1964.

2) David does not hear two trumpets on all the tracks.

3) Charles Davis may not be the baritone.

4) Colpix is now under the Blue Note, but Michael Cuscuna said the tape was missing.

The issue of the date is key. The presence of Wayne Shorter on the record, presumably before he left the Messengers, suggests that the group had access to the music for the musical before the musical was performed in public. Also, Wayne claims in an interview that this record precedes Freddie Hubbard's The Body And The Soul which is from 1963. He remembers these as the first arrangements of his for larger ensemble that were recorded, and specifically stated they were before the ones he did for Hubbard.

Bertrand.

Edited October 26, 2010 by bertrand

[brownie]

I'ld rather trust Michael Fizgerald's facts rather than Wayne Shorter's memory.

In his Chronology of Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Fitzgerald indicates that 'While frequently dated as 1963, I think it more likely that this session occurred in 1964 after the Indestructible dates. The musical Golden Boy opened on Broadway on October 20, 1964. Blakey's Golden Boy was album of the week December 13, 1964 in the New York Post.

Michael Fitzgerald Blakey chronology

It would be very strange for a jazz group to record music from a Broadway show months in advance of the show premiere.

My vinyl copy (on Colpix France) is no help at all about determining when this was recorded!

[Dan Gould]

I like to think I helped David Weiss out just a bit as I first sent him my mono transfer so he could transcribe the arrangements then I did the same when he found a mint copy of the stereo version which was apparently easier for transcription purposes. Wish I could have heard what David's band did with the arrangements.

[JSngry]

If you look at that HMV list, you'll see some Bud Shank reissues of some of his MOR dates. These are "specialty items" indeed, but people who don't reflexively gag on such things should be aware that as far as these things go, they really ain't bad, and that the album of Beatles covers is really pretty wack, if only in its own way.

[David Ayers]

Yeah I wondered if those Bud Shank had been on CD before. The LP of Michelle did quite well in its day and is easy to score but the CD might be an option.

I regret I once passed on a mint-ish copy of Oliver Nelson's Michelle (on Impulse) which is not all Beatles, and I'd quite like a CD of that too - it was issued in Japan, but came and went.

LPs of this sort of 'lounge music' are quite findable (or were, when any stores actually stocked LPs) but one's I've had have been quite crackly since they evidently got overplayed on furniture-type hi-fi by people who evidently enjoyed them and played them over and over!

Edited October 26, 2010 by David Ayers

[bertrand]

In my haste this morning, I did not explain myself very well. Also, I now have located my notes.

What I meant to say is that the date could be 1963 rather than 1964. I'll give some pros and cons for each scenario.

- The musical opens in NYC on 10/20/64. It actually opened in Philly first on 6/21/64. How could the Messengers get a hold of the music early? This would indicate a 1964 date, but probably not until June/July, and Wayne may have been gone by then, although we don't know exactly when he left. His last gig listed in the chronology is 6/19/64.

- I was told Blakey and Sammy Davis were tight, so Blakey could have gotten the music early.

- Curtis Fuller told me that Freddie was still the official trumpet player in the band, and Lee was an add-on. Lee was back in the band by 3/10/64, according to the chronology.

- We also know Lee was off the scene from 11/62 to 9/63. So the record had to be after that.

So either of the following situations could have occurred:

1) It was recorded 6/64/or 7/64; the musical has opened in Philly and Wayne may not have left yet. In this case, Curtis Fuller's statement is incorrect.

2) It was recorded between 9/63 and 3/64. This supports Fuller's statement. Perhaps they got a sneak preview of the music through Sammy. Two of the six tunes on the record were actually cut from the show, so they may well have written their arrangements before the NYC debut. This could be a question for Wayne or Curtis - how did they get the music?

Bertrand.

Edited October 27, 2010 by bertrand

[David Ayers]

Bertrand - thanks for all that detail!

It will also be interesting to find out how they have sourced it. Same for the other first CD issues here, in fact. It may be they have a second generation tape.

This TOCJ list has more collector appeal than usual.

[Bluerein]

The Vi Redd was issued on cd only for the Japanese Blue Note Club (carton sleeve format). I sold some to board members some years ago since I'm a member of the club!!! Great cd by the way.

[Brad]

This list definitely has some appeal. I will be taking a closer look at it.

[bertrand]

The Body And The Soul is from March 1963, so I don't see how Golden Boy can precede it. Lee was not playing at all in that time frame.

So Wayne's memory is faulty. If Curtis' is as well, then I'm ready to go with summer of '64.

Bertrand.

[clifford_thornton]

I want that Slide Hampton on Pathe that's listed as an upcoming reissue, too.

[brownie]

I want that Slide Hampton on Pathe that's listed as an upcoming reissue, too.

That was reissued a few years ago by EMI in their Americans Swinging in Paris series

[clifford_thornton]

Ah. I do like the original cover art, though.

[brownie]

I admit... it does look better

image taken at the Jardins du Luxembourg near the French Senate!