Coleman Hawkins 1940s Recordings

[Tom 1960]

Earlier today I had the opportunity to hear some of Coleman Hawkins performances from the 1940's featured as part of the WKCR Coleman Hawkins Birthday broadcast. What I'm interested in is if anyone can make specific recommendations on releases I should look for featuring performances from that era? Not sure where to start? Thanks as always.

[J.A.W.]

Here are a few recommendations (you know where they came from )

• Body & Soul – BMG; 1939-1940 and 1946-1947 Bluebird/Victor octet/nonet recordings and 1956 Victor big-band recordings

• Giants of the Tenor Sax – Commodore; 1940 sextet and 1943 septet recordings; CD shared with Frank Wess

or

• Tenor Giants – Commodore; 1940 sextet and 1943 septet recordings; CD shared with Chu Berry

• Classic Tenors – Signature; 1943 recordings made by Bob Thiele; CD shared with Lester Young

• The Complete Coleman Hawkins – 4CD, Mercury; 1944 Keynote quartet/quintet/septet recordings

• Rainbow Mist – Delmark; 1944 recordings in various settings

• Hollywood Stampede – Capitol; 1945 Capitol sextet/septet recordings and 1947 Aladdin septet recordings

[John L]

Those are all great! The 40s may have been Bean's best decade.

Edited November 22, 2010 by John L

[papsrus]

You're probably already aware, but there's a Proper box that focuses on this period, beginning in 1939 with 'Body and Soul.'

The packaging's less than ideal. Comes with a nice booklet.

Edited November 22, 2010 by papsrus

[cih]

You're probably already aware, but there's a Proper box that focuses on this period, beginning in 1939 with 'Body and Soul.'

The packaging's less than ideal. Comes with a nice booklet.

I have that box (I admit it...) - called 'The Bebop Years' At the rate I buy, it would probably be another 40 or 50 years til I got round to getting the stuff elsewhere so

I love that stuff - (even if it isn't bebop?) His sound is one of my favourites in jazz I think - kind of reminds me of thick honey dripping on dry leaves ...

I bought it for the Monk stuff I think - kind of reminds me of a desirable woman kicking the back of my chair in time to the music

"The packaging's less than ideal. Comes with a nice booklet." - just like me

[jazzbo]

An old cd called I think "Capitol Stampede" on Capitol/EMI is well worth seeking out. I've collected all the Chronogical Classics that were put out of Hawk in the 'forties, they're all great listens.

[Tom 1960]

Thanks for the recommendations, fellas. I was curious about the Proper box set since it seems pretty comprehensive featuring recordings from many different labels. Despite it's shortcomings on say packaging, are the recordings of good quality? I seem to have run across criticisms of the Proper label in the past.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Tom 1960

[Big Beat Steve]

Despite it's shortcomings on say packaging, are the recordings of good quality? I seem to have run across criticisms of the Proper label in the past.

The criticisms of the Proper label are more aimed at a certain species of Proper box buyers. Many seem to take offense at anything that comes out of certain Spanisch and/or Andorran labels (even if they clearly are within the 50-year Public Domain limits) yet drool heavily over those Proper boxes that go just the same route. An extreme case of double standards IMHO.

I haven't heard much criticism about fidelity of those boxes, though. Those boxes that I've heard (not this one, though) are quite OK, though to my ears some of the 78-rpm era recordings on some of those boxes sounded a bit "unnaturally clean" (not disturbingly so, and of course I do not know which source of previously reissued AND remastered tracks they had dug into for their own "re-reissues".

[cih]

Actually I don't mind the Proper packaging - at least the boxes are pretty sturdy compared to the JSP ones, and the booklets are thick and have all the info in one place.... wouldn't want to comment on sound quality, being pretty ignorant in such matters.

[Big Beat Steve]

I have that box (I admit it...) - called 'The Bebop Years' ...

I love that stuff - (even if it isn't bebop?)

Well, if you'd read "The Birth of Bebop" by Scott DeVaux...

http://www.amazon.com/Birth-Bebop-Musical-History-Foundation/dp/0520216652

... while listening to the music on this box you'd soon think differently.

This author turns the Hawk into a seminal bebop figure that towers so sky-high above everybody else in the development of bebop that it borders on the unfathomable. :D

[papsrus]

Thanks for the recommendations, fellas. I was curious about the Proper box set since it seems pretty comprehensive featuring recordings from many different labels. Despite it's shortcomings on say packaging, are the recordings of good quality? I seem to have run across criticisms of the Proper label in the past.

There's no issue with the fidelity of the recordings, to my untrained ears. They sound fine.

It's a nice box for what it is -- a generous sampling (over 80 tracks) presented in an orderly, chronological fashion, and accompanied by a very nice booklet.

Just to elaborate on the packaging, the individual discs (at least in my copy) come in those cardboard slips, not jewel cases. It doesn't bother me but you just need to be a little careful in handling them.

[mikeweil]

I have always wanted those recordings in one box ... some I have only on cassette. In other words, I ordered a copy.

[BERIGAN]

Thanks for the recommendations, fellas. I was curious about the Proper box set since it seems pretty comprehensive featuring recordings from many different labels. Despite it's shortcomings on say packaging, are the recordings of good quality? I seem to have run across criticisms of the Proper label in the past.

There's no issue with the fidelity of the recordings, to my untrained ears. They sound fine.

It's a nice box for what it is -- a generous sampling (over 80 tracks) presented in an orderly, chronological fashion, and accompanied by a very nice booklet.

Just to elaborate on the packaging, the individual discs (at least in my copy) come in those cardboard slips, not jewel cases. It doesn't bother me but you just need to be a little careful in handling them.

I forgot, but back when you did see jazz in the few cd stores around, I was starting to see the smaller sets, they used to be in fairly nice sturdy little cardboard boxs with 4-5 cds with that nice booklet...did they totally switch over to the trim box sets???

I was looking through my admittedly thin collection of Coleman Hawkins(Thought for sure I had that 10 cd Past perfect set, but only see a Count Basie one) and of course everything I have is out of print now This one is a pretty nice set that I would say 2/3rds was from 1939 to 1946

http://www.amazon.com/Retrospective-Coleman-Hawkins/dp/B000002WTW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1290460441&sr=8-4

Used is $12.49

But yeah, that Proper is probably the way to go.

Edited November 22, 2010 by BERIGAN

[cih]

I forgot, but back when you did see jazz in the few cd stores around, I was starting to see the smaller sets, they used to be in fairly nice sturdy little cardboard boxs with 4-5 cds with that nice booklet...did they totally switch over to the trim box sets???

I think they did - I got a few in the old format - Hawkins, Powell, Parker and Ellington - then they disappeared suddenly and the next one I got was Rosetta Tharpe in the new format, they had Muddy Waters and Bessie Smith there too... a few years ago now I think.

I always assumed that the same objections people had with JSP boxes applied to Proper?

[Tom 1960]

Thanks for the recommendations, fellas. I was curious about the Proper box set since it seems pretty comprehensive featuring recordings from many different labels. Despite it's shortcomings on say packaging, are the recordings of good quality? I seem to have run across criticisms of the Proper label in the past.

There's no issue with the fidelity of the recordings, to my untrained ears. They sound fine.

It's a nice box for what it is -- a generous sampling (over 80 tracks) presented in an orderly, chronological fashion, and accompanied by a very nice booklet.

Just to elaborate on the packaging, the individual discs (at least in my copy) come in those cardboard slips, not jewel cases. It doesn't bother me but you just need to be a little careful in handling them.

Sounds like I'm sold on the set. Great value for the money. As for the cardboard slips, really not a big deal to me. I own a 33 disc Haydn symphony cycle with cardboard slips.

[Harold_Z]

An old cd called I think "Capitol Stampede" on Capitol/EMI is well worth seeking out. I've collected all the Chronogical Classics that were put out of Hawk in the 'forties, they're all great listens.

I'm with Lon on this. That's pretty much exactly as I have them. If I don't count my vinyl, which is great soundwise but not in any sort of chronological or discographical configuration at all. Capitol Stampede is a gas!

Also on vinyl is an Italian Giants of Jazz lp (I like their vinyl and despise their cds) called simply "Coleman Hawkins". It's a great overview of Hawk.

[Stereojack]

There's no denying the value and convenience of Proper boxes, and they generally seem to have been programmed by people in the know, but I stand firm that in every instance, I have found the sound to be inconsistent, depending on the sources of the material. In nearly every set I have heard some material that sounds better elsewhere. I have no hatred for the Spanish or Andorrans (Proper actually come from England, I believe), and I think it's a pretty specious to accuse critics of having an agenda just because they have issues with the presentation. I trust my ears, and I gave up on Proper after a few purchases. The western swing sets they issued were unlistenable!

[jazzbo]

My experience mirrors SJ's. The Proper sets I've heard always sounded inferiopr to other labels' sonics. There was always a better option. I don't pursue them.

Edited November 22, 2010 by jazzbo

[J.A.W.]

An old cd called I think "Capitol Stampede" on Capitol/EMI is well worth seeking out. I've collected all the Chronogical Classics that were put out of Hawk in the 'forties, they're all great listens.

I'm with Lon on this. That's pretty much exactly as I have them. If I don't count my vinyl, which is great soundwise but not in any sort of chronological or discographical configuration at all. Capitol Stampede is a gas!

Also on vinyl is an Italian Giants of Jazz lp (I like their vinyl and despise their cds) called simply "Coleman Hawkins". It's a great overview of Hawk.

I think you both mean the Capitol CD Hollywood Stampede

[Harold_Z]

An old cd called I think "Capitol Stampede" on Capitol/EMI is well worth seeking out. I've collected all the Chronogical Classics that were put out of Hawk in the 'forties, they're all great listens.

I'm with Lon on this. That's pretty much exactly as I have them. If I don't count my vinyl, which is great soundwise but not in any sort of chronological or discographical configuration at all. Capitol Stampede is a gas!

Also on vinyl is an Italian Giants of Jazz lp (I like their vinyl and despise their cds) called simply "Coleman Hawkins". It's a great overview of Hawk.

I think you both mean the Capitol CD Hollywood Stampede

Correct!

[jazzbo]

Yes, thanks Hans.

[papsrus]

Many of the tracks are covered in the Proper box, but all the hearty recommendations for 'Hollywood Stampede' prompted me to order a copy.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

if you are like me and keep only can finding the same 20-25 bean 1940s 78s over and over again, let me tell you: get the proper box, preferably for use in your car, cause youll be more distracted that your listening to a digital mastering of the this stuff, because youll also be focusing on the road. this i find is the best way to listen to this type of cd-transfer: in the car. that being said, the linernotes in the proper box: A+. you will get complete discographical info, in a bound little printed book

[mikeweil]

Proper Box arrived today - at least I again have the Signature and Keynote tracks, or a substantial part. I wish they would have attempted a more complete set with all takes and complete sessions. Seems I will have to keep my Capitol and Commodore CDs. 

Is there a Hawk discography online, or does the Chilton book include one?

[brownie]

Is there a Hawk discography online, or does the Chilton book include one?

No. No.