Is Vince Guaraldi jazz?

[dave9199]

I own nothing by him but in looking at another thread this popped in to my head. And did I misspell his last name?

[GregK]

Isn't it Guaraldi? I think he's not quite jazz but certainly has a jazz "feel", more so than, say, Diana Krall or Norah Jones. I think he does tend to lean toward the easy-listening side of cool jazz. I do enjoy the Charlie Brown Christmas CD though, for whatever that's worth

[jacman]

And did I misspell his last name?

yup: Vince Guaraldi

as for the first question, listen for yourself then make an informed decision. or better yet, listen to some of his music, if you like it, buy more, if you don't like don't buy more. who gives a shit what "type" of music it is.

i think Duke Ellinton said (paraphrased) there was 2 types of music, good and bad.

truer words were never spoken.

<edit for syntax>

Edited December 27, 2003 by jacman

[John L]

I don't understand the question. Why do we suspect Vince Guaraldi of not being jazz? Because he spent some of his time writing television soundtracks? Then I guess that Duke Ellington and Thad Jones aren't jazz either.

Listen up The "Vince Guaraldi Trio" (OJCCD-149-2) and tell me that's not jazz.

Edited December 27, 2003 by John L

[Free For All]

I think his music is definitely jazz. The classification "jazz" includes an incredibly wide range of styles, not all of it to everyone's liking, but I think Guaraldi's music has enough of the identifying elements of rhythm, harmony and swing to assume a place under the jazz umbrella.

It's also about context- when I'm watching all the holiday Christmas specials and "A Charlie Brown Christmas" comes on, the score sounds REALLY jazz-like*

to me, compared to what usually surrounds it on TV. I think the soundtrack without the animation is a little less engaging.

His other recordings, while often a little light on content, are fairly pleasant listening- nothing too brooding but not unenjoyable either. I might tend to choose his recordings for "background" music (forgive me) where focused listening isn't necessarily required to get the benefit.

*I refuse to use the word "jazzy" EVER- I hear too many non-jazz listeners use it to describe pretty much anything w/o lyrics.

[JSngry]

If you have to call it something, call it jazz. It's light (as opposed to lite), not too much to sink your teeth into, but it's still "jazz". I'm w/Free For All about the "background music" aspect, which is not a derogatory categorization. Quality "ambient" music that creates a good convivial atmosphere is nothing to sneeze at. Guaraldi's music works quite nicely in this manner, thank you.

But if you don't have to call it something, enjoy it for what it is, as part of a well-balanced breakfast, and leave well enough alone.

[Jim R]

I think he's not quite jazz but certainly has a jazz "feel", more so than, say, Diana Krall or Norah Jones.

Why are you comparing Vince Guaraldi to two female singers?

Vince Guaraldi was a jazz pianist. I'll agree that his recordings were toward the less adventurous end of the jazz spectrum, but to doubt that he was a jazz artist is to have overlooked a lot of his work, IMO. Personally, I can't help but feel uncomfortable accepting the notion that Vince's work ought to be thought of as "good background music". I understand why you guys are saying that, but to send that message to those who aren't familiar with him yet seems just a tad unfair to me. I dislike the whole idea of background music (music to be played softly so that people can talk over it and ignore it I mean, I know there are types of music that deserve that sort of application, but Vince Guaraldi? Really? Okay, I'll admit that there's generally not much to sink one's teeth into in terms of harmonic exploration, but I could say that about Errol Garner (for example) too. Oh well, if there's an argument here, it's probably not all that severe... I'm going to go play "In Person", and then revisit that Richie Kamuca/Bill Holman "West Coast Jazz In Hi FI"... and then perhaps that Conte Candoli session that Guaraldi appeared on...

Edited December 27, 2003 by Jim R

[dave9199]

I guess I asked because I don't think I've seen talk about him on the board, but I'm probably wrong. I was surprised to find out he played at the Monterey Festival in 1967. I thought I'd heard about everyone who played it.

Also, my question has nothing to do with him doing Peanuts cartoons, I was just curious.

[GregK]

I think he's not quite jazz but certainly has a jazz "feel", more so than, say, Diana Krall or Norah Jones.

Why are you comparing Vince Guaraldi to two female singers?

I was referring to two others frequently discussed as being jazz or not jazz

[Free For All]

Personally, I can't help but feel uncomfortable accepting the notion that Vince's work ought to be thought of as "good background music".  I understand why you guys are saying that, but to send that message to those who aren't familiar with him yet seems just a tad unfair to me.  I dislike the whole idea of background music (music to be played softly so that people can talk over it and ignore it     I mean, I know there are types of music that deserve that sort of application, but Vince Guaraldi?  Really?  Okay, I'll admit that there's generally not much to sink one's teeth into in terms of harmonic exploration, but I could say that about Errol Garner (for example) too.  Oh well, if there's an argument here, it's probably not all that severe... I'm going to go play "In Person", and then revisit that Richie Kamuca/Bill Holman "West Coast Jazz In Hi FI"... and then perhaps that Conte Candoli session that Guaraldi appeared on...

Speaking for myself, Jim, when I refer to something as "background music" (at least in this case) I'm not saying that I ignore or even talk over it. Remember the recent thread on this topic? The term has different meanings for different people- maybe we should avoid it altogether. If I'm going to be talking (at least in MY house) I usually don't even put music on. This is not a black-and-white issue; I often have music on while doing things in the house, but that doesn't mean I'm ignoring it. I often choose what to listen to based on how much "multi-tasking" I'll be doing. There are things I won't listen to because they require me to focus all my attention on the music, and there are things I can enjoy while doing something else. I mean do you listen with 100% attention every time you put something on? Man, I envy you that skill. I always listen to tunes while online, I don't think I'm disrespecting anyone. Sometimes I have to stop and listen! BTW, for me "background" doesn't necessarily mean soft volume!

I do think of Vince a little differently then I do, say Bill Evans or Monk. I can't listen to those guys and do anything else but listen. This isn't necessarily a diss of Guaraldi, it just puts him in a different category for me. Maybe I haven't heard the right things. I have heard hot and cold Errol too.

You seem to have a different opinion of him, and I certainly respect that. I'm not about to talk anyone out of their opinion. B)

I'm certainly not cancelling him to those who are curious, but I think the original question was "is he jazz?" and I said YES!

[JSngry]

I dislike the whole idea of background music (music to be played softly so that people can talk over it and ignore it

I hear you, Jim, but I'm not at all uncomfortable with the notion of "ambient music" (and beyond the Brian Eno sense). I think there's a place for strategically placed music that enhances an atmosphere without demanding (or rewarding) attention on its own. The effect is quite positive - enhancing and amplifying whatever good feelings are present in the setting, and perhaps, hopefully, dispelling, deflecting, or at least delaying, any bad ones. To me, that's a very valuable use for music, and there are certain situations where I think that accomplishing this goal without drawing attention to the specifics of the music itself is an excellent idea.

To me, Guaraldi's music just doesn't have either the inventiveness or the emotional intensity (both totally subjective quantities to be sure) to reward extended focused listening on my part. But focused, dedicated listening is only one way that I like to encounter and experience music. If I would have been fortunate enough to hear Guaraldi's trio in person in a club setting, I've no doubt that I would have had a teriffic time hanging out, and would likely stay all night, so good would the vibe have been. I also have no doubt that I'd have made no special effort to sit still and focus too heavily on what they were playing. That's really no dis, because I'm still feeling the vibe that they meant to be felt. I'd even go so far as to say that it's a gift to be able to get your vibe across wthout demanding focused listening.

Music that feels good but doesn't necessarily "listen" good is not a problem for me. And of course, what "listens" and/or "feels" good to me might be of absolutely no interest to somebody else. Bottom line for me - if it feels good, I've got room for it. Everything else is a bonus, really.

[Alexander]

"Jazz Impressions of Black Orpheus" is UNQUESTIONABLY jazz, and high quality jazz at that. Moreover, Guaraldi's Peanuts compositions are certainly jazz, not merely "jazz-inspired television music" Is there improvisation? Does it swing? Yes? Then it's jazz.

There are two not entirely wholesome reasons for dissing Vince: One is that his work is well-known and well-loved (via his Peanuts work, even if most Charlie Brown viewers couldn't tell you the name of the man who played it) by a great many people. If he's popular, then it can't be jazz. I mean, EVERYBODY knows "Linus and Lucy," right?

The other reason is that he was...dare I say it...WHITE. I don't think anyone would question the credentials of a black musician, no matter how many cartoons he scored.

Vince was a jazz artist, there's no doubt of that. Was he in Bill Evans' league? Not really. But honestly, why compare? Vince was a good musician with an instantly indentifiable sound. I don't see the issue.

[JSngry]

Is there improvisation? Does it swing? Yes? Then it's jazz.

Then Ravi Shankar is jazz. Bill Monroe is jazz. Marvin Gaye is jazz. Tito Rodriguez is jazz. Hell, if the Bach cyllinder is ever discovered, he'll have to be considered jazz.

Personally, I have no problem with this, but there are those who do...

[JSngry]

The other reason is that he was...dare I say it...WHITE.

An easy and not entirely incorrect claim, but I think the real issue has to do with another kind of "lightness", that of content and impact, and that might be/is linked in lots of people's minds with skin color, but really is a different issue altogether when viewed objectively.

Guaraldi played "light" jazz. I don't think there's any real issue about that. In terms of inventiveness, "stylistic" originality and emotional "intensity", I don't see how anybody could argue otherwise. But why should there be a problem with that? Too often, jazz fans expect ALL jazz to have a depth of profundity that quite a few of its practitioners, white and otherwise, are just not up to delivering. So a veneer od "depth" is created in order for the fan to "save face".

That's really not necessary, in my opinion. To me, the real issue is honesty. Does the cat mean what he plays, and does he come by it honestly - those are the issues for me. And on those counts, Guaraldi scores.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, it's really better to leave well enough alone. Music such as Guaraldi's can be enjoyed on its own terms. One of the problems I have with categorization is that too often it comes in the door joined at the hip with "ranking". Guaraldi's music is "light", so therefore it must be "lesser", right?

Wrong. Just as you'd not want a heavy, 15 course meal replete with wine, apertifs, and brandy to begin the day (well, I would, sometimes, but I ain't got good sense), you'd not want a glass of orange juice and a sweet roll to end it. Music, GOOD music, comes in all levels of "heaviness". Each has its place, and the relative value of each is too often "determined" by total mass, not by how well each accomplishes its intended goal or how well it fits into its intended situation.

Tell you what - Guaraldi's music works in an "ambient" setting in a way that, say, Monty Alexander's never could. Alexander's playing, to me mind you, is "out of balance" - his content is light, but is presented by Alexander himself as, if not exactly "heavy", a lot heavier than it really is (again, just my opinion/perception/whatever). To put it mildy, Alexander's music bugs me in a way that Guaraldi's never even begins to, unless it is being presented in a context that tries to make it more than it is, which of course is the fault of the presenter and not of Guaraldi himself.

Part of a well-balanced meal, I say again, and balancing, remember , calls for all kinds of "weightinesss", which in turn come in all kinds of "quality". Quality first, I say, and let the relative "heaviness" sort itself out naturally.

Edited December 28, 2003 by JSngry

[Jim R]

Guaraldi played "light" jazz. I don't think there's any real issue about that. In terms of inventiveness, "stylistic" originality and emotional "intensity", I don't see how anybody could argue otherwise.

Like I said above, I don't think there's a "severe" argument brewing here, but I think I'll disagree on this point (I agree with everything else, I think). To my ears at least, Guaraldi doesn't really (entirely, exactly) fit with the term "light". I might use that to describe Andre Previn, or Bobby Hackett, or Mundell Lowe, or any number of cats who did those "Mood Jazz in Hi Fi" albums back in the polite cocktail era of the 50's... but not Vince. Emotional intensity is something I DO find in (okay, not all, but some of) his work. The track I included on my BF test (IMO) is enough to shatter any notion that Guaraldi was easy listening. To me, that track is intense with emotion- joy. A lot of his recordings have (for me) a certain melancholy, pensive quality (not unlike Bill Evans) which does stir my emotions (if not always to an "intense" level B)). In terms of iventiveness and stylistic originality... to be honest I'm far from being an expert on V.G.'s career, but back in his time on the planet I thought he was something of a leader in terms of incorporating latin influences into jazz (working with Bola Sete and Cal Tjader, etc). Groundbreaking, probably not, but also not status quo. I also think he had a distinctive sound. I'm not an authority on piano techniques and styles, but to me Vince sounds pretty unique and original. How much of that was natural and how much was by design, I don't know...

FWIMBW, here's a bio piece (alerting me to the fact that there's still some VG I need to track down!!):

Vince Guaraldi, widely acclaimed jazz pianist best known for his cheerful, uplifting work with Charlie Brown and the Peanuts Gang, got his start in the music biz with a record entitled Blues Groove by Woody Herman in 1956. It is here that his piano playing is clearly heard only on the final three tracks. Then, in November, he gained more valuable creative playing experience with Gus Mancuso, recording in San Francisco. Perhaps his first recorded performance that merits as stellar piano music and recommended listening is the composition "A Hatful of Dandruff."

Guaraldi ended 1956 by making a guest appearance on a poorer quality record headlined by Nina Simone. In January of 1957, Guaraldi made a great stride career wise, sitting in with the Cal Tjader Quartet, playing such beautiful melodies like "Thinking of You," another original composition, showing his ever-increasing potential and promise. During the end of the '50s, Guaraldi laid down some witty and intimate piano work with the likes of recording stars Frank Rosolino and Conte Candoli. Though Guaraldi received a wonderful chance to record with Stan Getz in February of 1958 with Cal Tjader and his sextet, his playing abilities were lost in the shuffle of Getz' Latin grooves and the sextet's swinging sound. In December of 1959, Guaraldi crossed paths with African roots singer Mongo Santamaria, but did not perform anything that was deemed magical. The pianist took more recording opportunities with Cal Tjader, including the album Black Orchard which received somewhat of a warm welcome among jazz audiences. Finally, with his shining work on 1959's West Coast Jazz in Hi Fi, Guaraldi got more opportunities and more playing time, contributing an important role to the record with fervent and passionate piano phrasing. A rare and charming performance recorded in January of 1962 with Jimmy Witherspoon was perhaps the only dubbed song that featured Guaraldi playing along with a lead vocalist. Entitled Jazz Casual: Jimmy Witherspoon/Jimmy Rushing, it is here that listeners can feel the deep creativity and percussive brilliance of his trio bandmates Monty Budwig on bass and Colin Bailey on drums.

During the late '50s and early '60s, Guaraldi spent countless gigs shaping and honing his craft, showing deep affection of his talents under the apprenticeship of Cal Tjader and Woody Herman. As a featured performer, Guaraldi's first solo work appeared on the album, Modern Music From San Francisco, with help from his quartet: Jerry Dodgion on alto sax, Eugene Wright on bass, and John Markham on drums. Recorded in 1955, the record expresses his personality through style and form, with originals called "Dr. Funk" and "Ginza." An April 1957 recording of A Flower Is a Lovesome Thing is a good chunk of some of the best of Guaraldi's early work. With breathtaking meter and rhythm, Guaraldi and friends play classics such as "Autumn Leaves," "Yesterdays," and "A Flower Is a Lovesome Thing." These three songs are featured on his 1964 breakthrough recording Jazz Impressions. The reflective and witty recording Jazz Impression of Black Orpheus is a perfect recording where each song is performed with the highest sense of musical quality. It was his artistic and commercial breakthrough, featuring captivating, crafty material such as "Samba de Orpheus," "O Nosso Amor," "Generique," and "Manha de Carnaval." Each of these four songs were part of the score for the smash hit French/Portuguese film Black Orpheus, which went on to win the Academy Award for Best Foreign Film.

The success was perfect timing for Guaraldi and a crop of fine jazz musicians that were making the most of the recent Latin and bossa nova craze to hit America in the mid-'60s. Original hit "Cast Your Fate to the Wind" went on to win a gold record award at the 1963 Grammy Awards for Best Instrumental Jazz Composition. Guaraldi put together charming renditions of "On Green Dolphin Street" and "Jitterbug Waltz" for his 1962 release, In Person. A scintillating performance with guest saxophonist Paul Winter and guitarist Bola Sete put the piano composer into some candid company in early 1963 with his record Jazz Casual. In the following years, though the recording dates are unknown, Vince Guaraldi brought with him his talents and playing experience to record a special tribute to the armed forces, this time on a well-praised record entitled The Navy Swings. The record's title reflects a weekly 15-minute public radio broadcast that gave jazz musicians an opportunity to get their music heard in the 1960s. Made during the height of Guaraldi's sessions with Sete, the time spent over the radio waves was splendid and magical to say the least.

With the creation of the much-heralded A Boy Named Charlie Brown, Vince Guaraldi got his first chance to dive into the genius mind of Charles Schultz, composing music with great charm and grace. Although the special was not aired on network television, Guaraldi used his time to begin his magical quest to score some of his greatest music, all boosting Schultz's Peanuts gang to greater notoriety and fame. It was the 1964's "Linus and Lucy" theme that propelled the pianist and cartoon artist into the stratosphere, later being released on future Peanuts collections, including the warm and reflective masterpiece, A Charlie Brown Christmas. Released and first broadcast to a national television audience on December 9, 1965, Peanuts fans and American's alike were hooked to the insatiable and delightful tunes of Guaraldi. It would go on to be respected as the most requested and the most heralded of all holiday jazz albums. With Fred Marshall on bass and Jerry Granelli on drums, the album unfolds in magical and radiant fashion. The trio prances through delightful gems such as "Skating," a tune that captures the essence of falling snow with flair, and the energetic "Christmas Is Coming." Thrown in for good measure are the uniquely paced "Greensleeves" and the soothing "Christmas Song."

Though much of his fame has been centered on his musical exposure with the Peanuts gang, Vince Guaraldi continued to create breathtaking music on the ebony and ivory keys well into the mid-'70s. An eclectic and beautifully arranged record, Alma Ville was perhaps one of Guaraldi's finest achievements as a pianists and composer. Given a five-star rating by critics and audiences alike, the Warner Brothers album was a strange and rare find, though the playing is deemed marvelous, with the artist's ever-growing talent and shining potential ever so apparent. With some up-tempo pieces and fast sambas featured, the cut "The Masked Marvel" is a must listen. With such tremendous grace and majestic prowess, Vince Guaraldi will always live in the minds and hearts of jazz and music fans of all ages, all who dare to open their ears to such gracefully played music.

He died on February 6, 1976, leaving behind his work in 15 Peanuts television specials and one full-length feature film. Despite his popularity during the time of the '60s, it is known that Guaraldi didn't release any records for a long while after 1969, giving listeners only three records to taste his life and his music. In 1998, Charlie Brown's Holiday Hits was released on the Fantasy label, which gives the listener a great palate of Guaraldi's original compositions, a cheerful jazz treat. ~ Shawn M. Haney, All Music Guide

[JSngry]

I made sure earlier to differentiate "light" from "lite", which is where I think Andre Previn, et al would fit for me, for the most part, at least in those more conspicuously "lite" settings.

"Light" is ok by me!

[Jim R]

Yeah, it's really all about terminology here for me. I see your distinction, and understand your views re background/ambient music. No serious disagreement, but I suppose I may "value" Guaraldi's music a bit more than some others. I think this thread got off on the wrong foot for me, and I just wanted to advocate the music as strongly as I could within the somewhat negative context of the discussion. I honestly can't really do that very effectively, because I only own about five of his recordings myself (plus a couple of aforementioned sideman appearances).

Bottom line- check him out (thoroughly) and decide for yourself (which someone with more vision already stated above. B) ).

[GA Russell]

In regard to background music, you might be interested to learn that I saw him in San Francisco at El Matador in August of '73. We got there early, and got a front row table. A beautiful blond sat down at the table next to mine by herself. Between sets, Vince sat between her and me! She was his date. Nice guy. He was happy to chat with me, although I didn't have much to say.

Anyway, the audience was perfectly quiet throughout both sets. Everyone listened to the music.

[BruceH]

He be jazz.

Don't let the Peanuts association fool you.

[mikeweil]

These are the Vince Guaraldi Trio albums that I love and that I consider jazz by any measure, they were subtle and swinging and one of the best piano/guitar/bass units ever:

Edited December 29, 2003 by mikeweil

[catesta]

Hell yes.

[Alexander]

I just find the suggestion that Guaraldi *wasn't* jazz to be galling, if not downright insulting. I really have to wonder on what ground Guaraldi *wouldn't* be considered jazz. Does Dave Brubeck qualify? How about Paul Desmond? Those guys where very popular and very accessable. Desmond's solo work is great music to relax to, but he also happened to play beautifully. I really have to wonder if some people don't prefer their music to be of the "brow-furrowing" kind (The sensitive jazz fan sits in his garret transcribing Cecil Taylor solos, wondering what anybody could see in Guaraldi's work...). I mean, I appreciate music that makes me think too, but I appreciate good music when I hear it, regardless of the difficulty setting.

BTW, Jim, I have no problem with any of the gentlemen you named being considered jazz. There's a lot of similarity between bluegrass and jazz, so Bill Monroe is welcome in my book!

[JSngry]

There's a lot of similarity between bluegrass and jazz, so Bill Monroe is welcome in my book!

Dude, my book is well into Volume Two...

[Jazzmoose]

Okay; it's settled. Monroe is in. Can I start campaigning for Bob Wills now?

[GregK]

Dude, my book is well into Volume Two...

Where can I purchase this book?