Mingus Moves

[kh1958]

I'm confusing vocal songs--Marcus Belgrave is on the vocal version of Duke Ellington's Sounds of Love on Changes.

[Gheorghe]

I must admit the name Marcus Belgrave occurred for me the first time on that vocal version of Duke Ellington´s Sound of Love on Changes, he was an additional trumpet and the singer was Jackie Paris.

Jack Walrath..... I think he may have had quite a hard time at the beginning. And he was not allowed much solo spot on Changes. But later he became a very very much involved member of the band. I still remember his fantastic trumpet work on "For Harry Carney".

"For Harry Carney" is played at a slower and softer pace on "Changes" but became a tour de force on most of the Mingus Concerts we could witness. Very often it was the first tune of a set, and it was so exiting, each soloist had a spot where he played only with the drums, I mean sections where the bass laid out.

Dannie Richmond, fantastic !

I ´ll never forget those hot versions of "Harry Carney". Usually the band played this, and "Fables of Faubus" and "Sue´s Changes" (also from the Changes album), and sometimes if it was a longer set, they might add a fast "Remember Rockefeller at Attika" (later titled Just for Laughs). And on the last tour in Europe (I can speak only bout European concerts) they still had "Harry Carney" in the book, usually as the first tune, and then they played much better versions of "Cumbia" and "Three or Four Shades" than the overproduced studio albums.....

 

[kh1958]

At Southern Methodist University, I recollect Mingus performing Free Cell Block F/Duke Ellington's of Love/For Harry Carney/Devil Blues. The version of For Harry Carney was incredible.

At far as I can tell, the nearest he ever came to Texas again was the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival.

 

Charles Mingus	1976-04-18	Jazz Tent	2:00 PM
Charles Mingus	1977-04-20	The President	8:00 PM
Charlie Mingus Quintet	1976-04-17	Municipal Auditorium	8:00 PM

[Ken Dryden]

I think he played the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival in 1976, when I was at Tulane. Unfortunately, the festival was scheduled right in the middle of final exams, so I never made it. These days I wouldn't bother, since the jazz has been pushed out of the limelight. An artist like Bruce Springsteen as a headliner has no appeal to me.

[Mark Stryker]

Re: Belgrave, Walrath and "Changes"

I've researched this for my chapter about Belgrave in my upcoming book. Without going into too much detail here, I can tell you that Jack joined the band shortly before the "Changes" sessions and Mingus, as he often did with new members, put him through some bullying/ hazing rituals that had to do with whether Marcus or Jack would play a contemporaneous gig at the Five Spot and who would do what on the "Changes" recording sessions. One result was that Jack played more solos on the session, but Mingus cut them in the editing.

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Mark Stryker

[Jim Duckworth]

On 1/11/2004 at 7:49 AM, kh1958 said:

That's the first Mingus record I bought, when it was released. It's a fantastic recording.

This is my story as well.  

[felser]

On 3/13/2018 at 10:14 AM, Ken Dryden said:

I think he played the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival in 1976, when I was at Tulane. Unfortunately, the festival was scheduled right in the middle of final exams, so I never made it. These days I wouldn't bother, since the jazz has been pushed out of the limelight. An artist like Bruce Springsteen as a headliner has no appeal to me.

Have you ever seen Springsteen live?  Nothing like it.

[medjuck]

56 minutes ago, felser said:

Have you ever seen Springsteen live?  Nothing like it.

Especially in 1976.

[JSngry]

Is it possible to get Springsteen but not really like him. If so, that's me.

Mingus, otoh...

[HutchFan]

14 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Is it possible to get Springsteen but not really like him. If so, that's me.

My reaction as well. 

I have lots of respect for Springsteen's music.  But I find I that just don't groove to it.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by HutchFan

[felser]

On 5/23/2018 at 7:46 AM, JSngry said:

What other jazz musicians have been named after a tree? Is it a long list or a short one?

 

19 minutes ago, HutchFan said:

My reaction as well. 

I have lots of respect for Springsteen's music.  But I find I that just don't groove to it.  

Springsteen live is something very different from and beyond Springsteen on record.  It's more than just the music.  I never "got" Springsteen until I saw the No Nukes movie performances of "The River" and "Thunder Road.  Then it all kicked in.  And I still don't much like his studio albums from the past 35 years, but the Live in NYC 1999 set is on my desert island list.  Possible also that he doesn't translate as well outside of the immediate NJ-Philly-NYC area, but he sang about our lives up here in the 70's.  

 

 

[JSngry]

Yeah, well...good for all that.

[felser]

34 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Yeah, well...good for all that.

So anyways, back to Mingus.  

[AllenLowe]

I never liked George Adams' playing. Too much - woo woo wa-o wa.....whoooooppppppp......

[Teasing the Korean]

I think Springsteen is just awful.

Back to Mingus...

[kh1958]

And George Adams is sublime.

[Gheorghe]

The Band with George Adams and Don Pullen sure was fantastic, because at least for me and my friends it was something like the resurrection of Mingus. We all had associated him with Dolphy, Jakie Byard and now here was that new band, which had it all, I mean the Mingus I always loved, with tensions alternating with tender moments, like the then brand new composition "Sue´s Changes". So, the way how they played  "Adams/Pullen" marked the real comeback of Mingus.

And I´d say Mingus was the artist who was one of my first very very early associations with "jazz". I heard Mingus before I even had heard about Bird and Diz, dig that ! And Mingus´ music "helped" me to get into more advanced forms and so called New Thing (Free Jazz), because even the music went far out it still went back to moments where it would "groove" just to be helpful for lesser advanced listeners, that´s how I see Mingus, fantastic, a teacher, a mentor........

George Adams and Don Pullen had that quality, they took it into more avantgardistic directions, but had those roots, when they got back into some blues-gospel influenced chords and phrases.......

It was harder for the next band, such as it was harder for the men who followed after Dolphy/Byard. But Mingus got back into composing new stuff for that last band too.

About "Bruce Springsteen": Let me tell it as the hard core jazz fan I am: About the time I got to dig Mingus (mid 70´s ) I haven´t even heard about Springsteen. I first heard that name when about in 1984 Artie Shaw (who came back to the scene for a short period) mentioned him in an interview as something "today you must be Bruce Springsteen to get famous". Imagine: I had to hear that name for the first time from an old musician who could have been my grandpa.....

[BFrank]

I always liked Adams/Pullen, too. Unfortunately I never saw them with Mingus, but I saw the Quartet a number of times and they never failed to impress.They really had that "inside/out" style down cold.

As for Bruce - I saw him in '76 and '80. Never as big a fan as most of my friends. Yes, he puts on a VERY energetic and LONG show but like some of you I can't say I enjoy spending much time listening to him.

I saw him again in 2012 at SXSW in Austin. He gave a Keynote speech which was interesting, for sure. And then gave a concert at the relatively small Moody Theater (where Austin City Limits is filmed). Also an entertaining show, and I was able to be fairly close to the stage. Glad I saw the show, but again - I didn't feel like I had seen "God" or anything.

[Ken Dryden]

I was already moving away from listening to much rock by the time Springsteen's star rose. I'm not bashing anyone who likes him, but his music is of no interest at all.

I only got to see George Adams in concert once and he seemed under the weather. I think he died within a year or so.

[medjuck]

I saw the Pullen/Adams group twice in Toronto: once at a benefit for Ed Blackwell in what I recall as a basement or ground floor room in a large building and once at the El Mocambo. I recall Adams spinning around as he soloed and that they played  Happy Birthday for someone at the Elmo.  I remember Bill Smith saying that MIngus chased him around the club yelling "You're stealing my piano player" because Bill was about to record a Pullen solo recording for Sackville.  The recording session was done as a small concert which I attended. In each case I was knocked out by Pullen and Adams. 

[Ted O'Reilly]

40 minutes ago, medjuck said:

I saw the Pullen/Adams group twice in Toronto: once at a benefit for Ed Blackwell in what I recall as a basement or ground floor room in a large building and once at the El Mocambo. I recall Adams spinning around as he soloed and that they played  Happy Birthday for someone at the Elmo.  I remember Bill Smith saying that MIngus chased him around the club yelling "You're stealing my piano player" because Bill was about to record a Pullen solo recording for Sackville.  The recording session was done as a small concert which I attended. In each case I was knocked out by Pullen and Adams. 

The basement was in the Town Inn at Church and Charles.  Sonny Rollins played at that event...  Yup to the El Mocambo too.  And the Pullen recording was at Thunder Sound on Davenport Road, just west of Yonge Street.  We've spend some times together, Joe.  Too bad a coffee meet-up didn't happen, but let's try again next time you're in town.

[medjuck]

But you obviously have a better memory than me. 

[Gheorghe]

12 hours ago, Ken Dryden said:

 

I only got to see George Adams in concert once and he seemed under the weather. I think he died within a year or so.

Besides the occasions where I saw George Adams in top form (for example in 1980 with Don Pullen, Cameron Brown and Danny Richmond) I also saw him shortly before he died in one of those "Mingus Memorial Bands" conducted by Jimmy Knepper. This one was weak IMHO, it seemed that Jimmy Knepper wasn´t really interested in that project and he looked tired and bored, and George Adams was very subdued.

[HutchFan]

On 5/25/2018 at 9:24 PM, kh1958 said:

And George Adams is sublime.

Effin'-A, kh!!!  That's IT, right there!

[kh1958]

Previously available as a DVD, Charles Mingus Live at Montreux 1975 has been recently released as a 2CD set. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077TRFQJK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1